Tamiya Manta Ray DF-01 - New to me

[Wez-li]

11 hours ago, Ian_Gsi16V said:

I'm so gutted I sold my Manta Ray last year now  They are a great car

 

Buy another one, there's loads around and are available quite cheaply

 

[Jason1145]

My Manta Ray is for sale! Watch out in the trades section... I can't remedy the driveline issues despite a whole new rear gearbox argh! 1 previous hour spent on this and still not running right

It might be diagnosed wrong. I'm now even doubting my positioning of the motor in the aftermarket aluminium motor mount.. I think I have the 20t pinion in the right slot.... I think. Can you tell how tired I am that I can't even invest more time to try this out

Will sell as a roller soon.

[iluvmud]

So what's the problem again?

[Percymon]

3 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

My Manta Ray is for sale! Watch out in the trades section... I can't remedy the driveline issues despite a whole new rear gearbox argh! 1 previous hour spent on this and still not running right

It might be diagnosed wrong. I'm now even doubting my positioning of the motor in the aftermarket aluminium motor mount.. I think I have the 20t pinion in the right slot.... I think. Can you tell how tired I am that I can't even invest more time to try this out

Will sell as a roller soon.

If you want to send me the ball diff I'll have a look at it for you, would only need a day or two before sending it back

I do wonder whether your motor mount is correct though, if its one without pinion counts marked on it its very easy to get it set 180' out of kilter.

 

[Jason1145]

10 minutes ago, iluvmud said:

So what's the problem again?

I think the rear gears are skipping... it judders and whines under low throttle indoors... nothing to do with the powerful brushless motor lifting to top gear cover as I've only tested low speed gentle throttle.

The idler gear is my guess... but this is held in place by the top n bottom gear covers of which I replaced both brand new

[Jason1145]

7 minutes ago, Percymon said:

If you want to send me the ball diff I'll have a look at it for you, would only need a day or two before sending it back

I do wonder whether your motor mount is correct though, if its one without pinion counts marked on it its very easy to get it set 180' out of kilter.

 

Thanks Percy but I've not used your Ball Diff yet... I've got a nicely built geared diff in the rear purchased from Waterbok here on TC.... this diff isn't the issue, I think it's the gears running off it namely the idler.

pity I did not see your recently sold Manta Ray, I would've bitten your arm for that

[Percymon]

Gear diff sure is a lot less hassle !

 

[iluvmud]

20 minutes ago, Jason1145 said:

Thanks Percy but I've not used your Ball Diff yet... I've got a nicely built geared diff in the rear purchased from Waterbok here on TC.... this diff isn't the issue, I think it's the gears running off it namely the idler.

pity I did not see your recently sold Manta Ray, I would've bitten your arm for that

Hah I got one I'm about to sell  needs a body though but I just rebuilt it.....

can you snap pics of the rear gears from the top with the top cover off, and the diff installed with the cover off...

 

also its it the clicking thing try this.... take out the rear prop shaft gear and shaft piece and try to run it like that.... 

[Jason1145]

21 minutes ago, iluvmud said:

Hah I got one I'm about to sell  needs a body though but I just rebuilt it.....

can you snap pics of the rear gears from the top with the top cover off, and the diff installed with the cover off...

 

also its it the clicking thing try this.... take out the rear prop shaft gear and shaft piece and try to run it like that.... 

Pity your in the states I'd buy it off you, I have a body for it too.

ive taken the rear prop shaft out and ran it with no motor connected and it runs smooth.. 

As for the other gears they all seat well inside the gear case.. got the correct size bushings in for them to sit nicely into the gear case grooves as they should for the idler, spur and propellar gear.

 

[iluvmud]

26 minutes ago, Jason1145 said:

Pity your in the states I'd buy it off you, I have a body for it too.

ive taken the rear prop shaft out and ran it with no motor connected and it runs smooth.. 

As for the other gears they all seat well inside the gear case.. got the correct size bushings in for them to sit nicely into the gear case grooves as they should for the idler, spur and propellar gear.

 

Ok so just remove the prop shaft gearing, leave the motor in it and run it, I have a feeling this is your problem

[waterbok]

2 hours ago, Percymon said:

If you want to send me the ball diff I'll have a look at it for you, would only need a day or two before sending it back

I do wonder whether your motor mount is correct though, if its one without pinion counts marked on it its very easy to get it set 180' out of kilter.

 

Don't know about shipment but maybe he could send you the complete reargearbox for troubleshooting? 

[Percymon]

Daft question, and not wanting to insult your build skills, but have you checked the plastic end caps are present on the small idler gear shaft - without these the idler will rise up under power and reduce gear mesh to almost nil.

There are some photos in my old Top Force rebuild here  

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/68061-rebirth-of-a-58100-top-force-my-2-year-forum-anniversary-project/

 

that might be of some reference.

Still think its motor mount related mind   

 

[iluvmud]

30 minutes ago, Percymon said:

Daft question, and not wanting to insult your build skills, but have you checked the plastic end caps are present on the small idler gear shaft - without these the idler will rise up under power and reduce gear mesh to almost nil.

There are some photos in my old Top Force rebuild here  

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/68061-rebirth-of-a-58100-top-force-my-2-year-forum-anniversary-project/

 

that might be of some reference.

Still think its motor mount related mind   

 

heh, that's why i was asking for pics *giggle*

If you look at older posts I had this issue as well with one of my other Manta Ray builds and thought it was the after market prop shaft....... well, it wasnt as I had the same noise in the MR i just rebuilt.... looked as though it had something to do with the c-clip sitting in the slot with the bearing on that gear shaft. took it out reexamined it, reinserted it to make sure that it didnt his the tranny box weird anymore and POOF, noise is gone.

[Jason1145]

9 hours ago, waterbok said:

Don't know about shipment but maybe he could send you the complete reargearbox for troubleshooting? 

Ha I'd consider sending the whole car but this would be a massive imposition ;p

[Jason1145]

8 hours ago, Percymon said:

Daft question, and not wanting to insult your build skills, but have you checked the plastic end caps are present on the small idler gear shaft - without these the idler will rise up under power and reduce gear mesh to almost nil.

Still think its motor mount related mind   

 

I know the plastic end caps you refer to and yep they are present.. without them there is wiggle room for the idler gear to sit in the lower gear case.... I checked this like 10 times lo

Seeing all the helpful guys here not letting up on this I think it's spurred me on to give it one more try.... so I'm going to replace that broken rear hub for now to get the full driveline intact and then try....... moving the motor on the motor mount as I think this could be an issue! If it is I deserve the biggest banana prize for stupidity and frustratedness ever!

If this fails then it's staying up for sale ;p

[Snappy1]

Yes, you need to try placing the motor mount onto the other set of mount points on the motor,

 

It is either the above or motor mount pinion position I think.......

YOU WILL FIX IT........

[chickenman242tk]

What motor mount are you using , from memory yeah racing made 2 different mounts so you could use differnt pinions without the need if speed tuned gears , if its a plastic mount , ditch it and go alloy

[Jason1145]

1 hour ago, chickenman242tk said:

What motor mount are you using , from memory yeah racing made 2 different mounts so you could use differnt pinions without the need if speed tuned gears , if its a plastic mount , ditch it and go alloy

GPM Silver Aluminium Motor Mount (16-21t pinion) – Use 0.6 MOD Pinions

I have a 20t pinion in right now.

[chickenman242tk]

Hmm ok

Are the gears new or still the old alloy idler and spur.

I had a similar issue bitd but my top cover cracked causing the idler to skip.

I think if it was a pinion mesh issue you would have stripped the spur by now

[Jason1145]

I have the full plastic set of gears in there, all new, and double checked all the little plastic end  caps are on the gear shafts so they seat properly in the case slots.

I will pull that motor mount out and have a look and see if the spur is still good too, cheers.

[Percymon]

BIGGEST problem with the alloy mounts is that they have no markings as to which holes are for which pinion, or which way up the mount goes.  Bit of a mare, as you can't really see the mesh properly even with the top case removed!

 

I'm sure there is a post/thread somewhere from TA-Mark about them and the effects of them being upside down 

Edit - found (probably one of many repeat entries) here -  http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/63067-manta-ray/#comment-423472

 

[Jason1145]

10 hours ago, Percymon said:

BIGGEST problem with the alloy mounts is that they have no markings as to which holes are for which pinion, or which way up the mount goes.  Bit of a mare, as you can't really see the mesh properly even with the top case removed!

 

I'm sure there is a post/thread somewhere from TA-Mark about them and the effects of them being upside down 

Edit - found (probably one of many repeat entries) here -  http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/63067-manta-ray/#comment-423472

 

Thanks Percy.

Can you believe the spur was a bit worn... so I took motor mount out and swapped it around etc with my 20t pinion... put a new spur gear and Idler gear with correct bushings and bearings etc to seat them..made sure the pinion and spur mesh was good by looking through the little top gap and spinning the spur by hand and could see the pinion moving in response with no slipping.

Disconnected centre drive shaft so it was rear wheel drive only...Assembled it all together, connected battery...going forwards fine sounds normal and moves properly under power....  but in reverse it feels like the pinion is slipping! Awful whining noise and hardly any reverse movement.... like 2mph only

i feared I was stripping another spur but not yet... how can it go forward ok but not in reverse????

I popped the motor out and even cracked open a new 0.6 mod 20t RW pinion to make sure I had the right pinion pitch... I know it's correctly on the motor shaft.. and the alloy motor mount is correctly placed.

 

I was about to give up on it and then had the lightbulb moment... the spue I'd bought for the rest gear case also had a plastic motor mount ( my roller didn't come with one!) so I chucked that in and voila! Runs perfect!

The benefit with the plastic mount is not only the numbers on the holes but you can orientate it properly by keeping the numbers the right way up!

So now I wondered why my metal motor mount was causing issues and I think I finally figured it out...I hadn't loctited the two metal legs on the mount... so despite mounting the pinion in the correct hole and orientating the mount in the chassis correctly this slight movement on the mount legs must've been causing this pinion/spur slippage!

I will fully test give theory out as I'm now loctiting the legs onto the motor mount and once dried will try reinstalling it... for now though I'm going to enjoy my fully working 4wd Manta Ray woohoo!

Oh, and I'm going to stop the sale listing as I'm keeping it

[Jason1145]

Worn spur

Loctite setting.. will fit it back one day.

Namesake Jacket

[waterbok]

Hurray!! Welcome to the club.  Now youre qualified for the rere Top Force 

[Jason1145]

Indeed I might be... I'm now pretty well acquainted with the whole rear diff and gears on the DF01 chassis ( have to study the front when and if need be)