Tamiya Manta Ray DF-01 - New to me

[WillyChang 1814]

6 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

 

Loctite setting.. will fit it back one day.

Is that GPM? Are you sure it's assembled correctly?

always thought the finned side touches the motor, solid side touches plastic

Orange plate has countersunk holes & flathead screws for its posts.

 

Also what threadlock did u use? Watery anaerobic Loctite blue?

Heat releases anaerobic threadlock. Loctite blue is "removable" grade and is too weak for that area, lets go soon as it gets warm. I'd use anaerobic Loctite Red "permanent" or Tamiya Liquid Threadlock (it's thick gunk more of a solvent glue than curing without air).

Real annoying when those posts spin off the plate  don't Loctite the cap head screws, don't need to.

[Jason1145 3986]

5 hours ago, WillyChang said:

Is that GPM? Are you sure it's assembled correctly?

always thought the finned side touches the motor, solid side touches plastic

Orange plate has countersunk holes & flathead screws for its posts.

 

Also what threadlock did u use? Watery anaerobic Loctite blue?

Heat releases anaerobic threadlock. Loctite blue is "removable" grade and is too weak for that area, lets go soon as it gets warm. I'd use anaerobic Loctite Red "permanent" or Tamiya Liquid Threadlock (it's thick gunk more of a solvent glue than curing without air).

Real annoying when those posts spin off the plate  don't Loctite the cap head screws, don't need to.

Thanks Willy I hadn't considered the blue loctite possibly loosening if that mount gets hot... top tip cheers

Good god yes you are right again.. looks like I hastily assembled those mount legs on the wrong side lol... I will correct that asap, thanks again pal.

[WillyChang 1814]

Glad to be of assistance 

i prep MantaRays for vintage enduro racing, sometimes it's 1 car multiple drivers so we can't have bits falling off over 3-4hrs 

For lineup of spare race motors, they're all ready pinion'd and I try get different coloured motor mounts for each - especially if we want some different pinions. Pull out your file and file away the colour around edge of 1 half so you know which side is "up"  midrace 2-screw motor change, it's a 30s pitstop 

then again if you're buying more motor mounts, give your $ to Yeah Racing instead, or other brands which are 1pc less hassle 

[waterbok 1282]

May I recomend this alloy mount from Pargustore for coming builds, its an one piece and has a little nob to show which way to mount.

[Jason1145 3986]

Good idea for the file, and great moto mount from Pargustore too thanks tons.

Bah, such a nice red, but $23 for a part that's never seen  Lol.

http://www.pargustore.com/tamiya-one-piece-aluminum-motor-mount-for-ta01-ta02-ta02t-red.html

[Snappy1 966]

Congrats on the win, I had a very similar issue with an old blazing star a few years ago, now my main 4wd runners are all pretty much DF-01's, I cannot get enough of them.......

[waterbok 1282]

5 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Bah, such a nice red, but $23 for a part that's never seen  Lol.

He does have free shipment 

 

[WillyChang 1814]

Are the pargu ones labelled at the holes?

Looking for cheapest source for a labelled alloy mount  got tired of dragging out the engraver to DIY. Keyed knob is handy but not a dealbreaker.

Not sure if the Tamiya re-released one is labelled either... haven't yet peeked into the 40th Ann kit. 

[waterbok 1282]

The Tamiya one got a little notch, labelled are only the plastic mounts.

[waterbok 1282]

 

One of the holes for the 16T btw (the upper right) is easely recognized because the offset to the post ist bigger, which is also the one that should be facing up

[WillyChang 1814]

Great reference pics, thanks matey.

Yeah I can never find the little instruction slips  definitely never at trackside. Easiest is to keep a plastic mount in the spares box just for doublechecking hole ID.

 

[Jason1145 3986]

Thanks for those helpful posts above everyone.

2 issues with this car…..

Under hard throttle it veers to the left quite severely…. Enough to sometimes send it into a 180 spin….. it tracks straight, the wheels are all pointing straight and it free rolls straight when off the power or gently accelerated… but as soon is full beans are given it pulls left hard.

I think I have a haunted Manta Ray that will not perform properly ;p

I drove like this for 2 battery packs over the last 2 days as I just wanted to get some run time on it and I could compensate this trait of left pulls… but towards the end of the second pack the gears starting clicking quite loudly under hard throttle.

It clicks at the beginning of applying hard throttle (gentle throttle makes no noise) and then stops at full throttle…. Performance hasn’t been lost (I think) as yet but the noise is there and I would guess it’s the rear diff again… maybe because I didn’t strengthen the top rear diff cover (as previously discussed in this thread using nut and bolts on 2 screws and a nut through the rear tower to hold the other side down) and it’s letting the idler gear lift under power.

I will open the rear diff again tonight to see if the idler gear has stripped anything…. Gotta love this Manta Ray ;p

Are these DF01-s suited to running 3900kv and 2s lipo with a 20t pinion… is it too much power for it?

[Butler 338]

You run massive power with all plastic gears, a steel pinion and bracing the rear gearbox. There must be plenty of people out there that have done it.

For testing the veering left, try it in FWD only, then RWD only, see if that helps. Also check it at full throttle on the bench that its not a wheel binding or the electrics going funny.

The clicking issue could be the ball diff slipping, not sure what noise it would make, but the fact its a noise on acceleration only could point to that.

[Jason1145 3986]

How would I test it in FWD only… by taking out the rear idler gear which stops the connection to the rear diff? IS that right?

When I was running it and the clicking came I held it off the floor and roughly tested the throttle issue and it all looked normal, all wheels seemed to be spinning the same speed etc.

Yeah I guess if the electrics send a weird signal to the servo to turn left the bench test will show this up… will check it ooooooot ;p

[Butler 338]

Remove the rear diff or drive shafts.

[waterbok 1282]

1 hour ago, Jason1145 said:

Thanks for those helpful posts above everyone.

2 issues with this car…..

Under hard throttle it veers to the left quite severely…. Enough to sometimes send it into a 180 spin….. it tracks straight, the wheels are all pointing straight and it free rolls straight when off the power or gently accelerated… but as soon is full beans are given it pulls left hard.

I think I have a haunted Manta Ray that will not perform properly ;p

I drove like this for 2 battery packs over the last 2 days as I just wanted to get some run time on it and I could compensate this trait of left pulls… but towards the end of the second pack the gears starting clicking quite loudly under hard throttle.

It clicks at the beginning of applying hard throttle (gentle throttle makes no noise) and then stops at full throttle…. Performance hasn’t been lost (I think) as yet but the noise is there and I would guess it’s the rear diff again… maybe because I didn’t strengthen the top rear diff cover (as previously discussed in this thread using nut and bolts on 2 screws and a nut through the rear tower to hold the other side down) and it’s letting the idler gear lift under power.

I will open the rear diff again tonight to see if the idler gear has stripped anything…. Gotta love this Manta Ray ;p

Are these DF01-s suited to running 3900kv and 2s lipo with a 20t pinion… is it too much power for it?

1. take the front & rear dogbones out turn the wheels and see if the all four turn evenly, maybe one of your bearings is toast. next as discribed take out the idle for front only.

2. clicking will be to much power from your setup and not reinforcing the top cover. sucks but thats your DF01 with hightorque BL.

3900x7.4 makes for 28k rpm with a 20T thats fast for a DF + the added torque, but aslong the motor and esc dont run hot its only the gearbox(es) you will be killing, oh and the diff outdrives, dogbones/cvds, wheel axles, tires........ nothing your LHS can't cure

[Jason1145 3986]

3 hours ago, waterbok said:

1. take the front & rear dogbones out turn the wheels and see if the all four turn evenly, maybe one of your bearings is toast. next as discribed take out the idle for front only.

2. clicking will be to much power from your setup and not reinforcing the top cover. sucks but thats your DF01 with hightorque BL.

3900x7.4 makes for 28k rpm with a 20T thats fast for a DF + the added torque, but aslong the motor and esc dont run hot its only the gearbox(es) you will be killing, oh and the diff outdrives, dogbones/cvds, wheel axles, tires........ nothing your LHS can't cure

Well this much power has nearly toasted my rear tyres cant wait for my new street tyres to arrive.

 

So I made progress tonight... the rear clicking was as suspected that idler gear hopping around inside the diff case due to a worn out and enlarged plastic end cap on the idler shaft! New problem, but this allowed the idler gear to kick up and skip... no teeth damaged anywhere.

 

This was easy to replace and when tested on all wheel drive indoors seemed fine. 

 

Next to identify the awful veering problem it suffers, looks like it's caused by the front diff this time... both front wheels turn the same way when one wheel is spun... like a locked diff.

So once opened I found one of the 3 Spider gears inside the diff case was locked and stuck on the shaft... the other two will spin freely but not the third.. it's actually stuck and I can't get it off with brute force and pliers!

So I'll run it on rear wheel drive tomorrow ( removed centre drive shaft) and hope to see it working normally.

Off to order a new set of diff internal gears which are listed somewheee back in this thread.... and some Tamiya Antiwear grease to coat them in too.

[Jason1145 3986]

Running it today in RWD mode only and it was fine..... no veering to the left so this confirms it was that issue with the front diff which will be resolved when the new diff internal gears arrive.

 

However.. after 5 minutes of high speed stop starting that same clicking noise came back from the rear diff.

I wonder if it's a warped plastic end cap on the idler gear like last time? Would the top diff cover lifting cause this particular fault?

Anyhow, next mod is to strengthen that top rear diff cover and take it from there.

[Jason1145 3986]

Video showing off the Manta Ray, before the clicking rear diff ended play time..... Skip to the end for the diff failure, the rest is my other hobby of video making.

I've since reinforced the rear diff top cover, all 3 mount points are now locked down to hopefully prevent this failure again.

I also just received new diff internals for that locked front diff of men (caused it to veer left under acceleration), so soon I will report back if I've got it all working all ship shape and proper ;p

 

[Jason1145 3986]

Rear diff top cover mod

Side on view (2 screw holes held by nut)

Other side on view - 4mm screw through rear shock tower with lock nut that presses down on the diff cover - had to file a little of the dff case away to fit the nut there as it's a tight squeeze.

Side on view

Top view

[Jason1145 3986]

Some new street tyres, really sticky rubber... let's see how well these perform once I rebuild this back into 4wd mode... or maybe I'll leave it as rwd.

[jupitertwo 1484]

1 hour ago, Jason1145 said:

Some new street tyres, really sticky rubber... let's see how well these perform once I rebuild this back into 4wd mode... or maybe I'll leave it as rwd.

 

What tires are they @Jason1145, I'm after some decent road buggy tires?

[Jason1145 3986]

Search an EBay seller called hobbyway2015

He only sells about 10-15 different types of wheels n tyres, nothing else, you can see my ones there.

He ships from Hong Kong.

[Jason1145 3986]

Not much progress on this Manta Ray yet, still to test the rear diff with the strengthening mods done.... but I added a nicer looking rear diff cover for now.