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Egress Jamie Booth's Replica

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I am starting to wonder if those custom machined hub carriers on Jamies car actually had the same dimensions as "normal" Top Force / Manta Ray hub carriers. It might be just the pics but it almost looks as if the king pins are distanced further away from the hinge pin position. But even so, a std Astute universal would require shimming which it doesn't seem to have at all on the pics of the original car. Strange. :)

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1664715595_Skrmavbild2022-01-14kl_22_59_24.png.7fdbf7c871cd64520f038506c26d2f20.png

Is this really a Manta Ray / Top force spec hub carrier? If it is, I just can't understand how an Astute universal would fit the way it does..

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Thanks for hopping on here @pUs, maybe we can solve this with our combined knowledge. Its only bad about me, I dont know nothing about TopForce chassis.

But you talk about Tamiya 53226 I guess.

Tamiya-Hop-Up-Options-53226-Achsschenkel

Compared to TA-01 hubs:

b_TA1020.jpg

I cant tell you only with this pics... -_-

 

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Quote

These parts are almost identical to the GPM TA-01 uprights you can buy, that's what I used on the replica.

Probably this makes the difference...

 

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14 hours ago, Collin said:

 

You are quiet active here for giving up your hobby :P

I only read and sometime answer, no more at the moment.

Max

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2 hours ago, Collin said:

Thanks for hopping on here @pUs, maybe we can solve this with our combined knowledge. Its only bad about me, I dont know nothing about TopForce chassis.

But you talk about Tamiya 53226 I guess.

Tamiya-Hop-Up-Options-53226-Achsschenkel

Compared to TA-01 hubs:

b_TA1020.jpg

I cant tell you only with this pics... -_-

 

So wait will these gpm hubs fit on a stock egress

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Cant say and havend tried. I am not at my workshop place now...

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Guys,

I'll try to help but I haven't had Jamie's car for years now.  I do have pictures that may shed some light on things, what I can say is that Jamie's car was a real Frankenstein's monster.  There wasn't a lot of aesthetic finesse going on here, it was a true race car.  The red hub carriers were completely manually ground away internally to allow for clearance, to the point where I don't think they would have taken a single light hit without breaking.  I am not sure what the CVDs were but could have had custom or modified stub axles.  I am not familiar with the OG Egress, and the Full Option kit was only able to be tested with a 2013 re-release.  Kit #1 has been raced extensively and was the basis for the green light on the rest of the kits.

Here are a few of the pictures I took of the original car.

 

DSCF0017.JPG

DSCF0013.JPG

DSCF0019.JPG

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DSCF0017.JPG

Thats really weird. Does it even still has two bearings inside the knuckle arms? This all makes things even more weird to me.

@LongRat Did you shortened the front suspension arms or are they 1:1 copy of the original? The only solution to get it right here with my ´89 version is, that the alu c-hubs of the Top Force gives more distance to use the Astute CVDs. I would be really happy about any more photos of the original. You can send them per mail if you dont want to post them.

 

 

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1 minute ago, LongRat said:

Pretty sure it was still dual bearing.

Just edited my posting while you where replying. Yes, dual bearings for shure.

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12 hours ago, LongRat said:

I am not familiar with the OG Egress, and the Full Option kit was only able to be tested with a 2013 re-release.

So the Full Option kit was tested on the 2013 re-release? This brings up a question I've had. The re-re has redesigned diffs. The only thing actually holding the diff outdrives in place is the pressure from the dogbone (inner) end of the front universal shaft pressing on a sponge bushing placed within the outdrive/drivecup. It gets away with this because, on the stock front suspension set-up, the universal driveshafts are in line with the inner pivot points of the front suspension arm. The Full Option/Jamie Booth arrangement alters this feature by repositioning the inner pivot points for more caster, taking the front driveshafts now, out of line, with the inner arm pivot points. 

I could see it working with the vintage diffs as Jamie did BITD since the vintage diff's outdrives feature a more positive engagement with the diff (they actually have a shaft entering the diff).  The re-re however, has no shaft, relying on shallow drivetabs on the backside of the outdrive's cup and a dinky piece of sponge bushing to hold them engaged. I'm surprised the Full Option kit's arrangement doesn't cause these to pop out during running. 

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On 1/23/2022 at 12:06 PM, Saito2 said:

So the Full Option kit was tested on the 2013 re-release? This brings up a question I've had. The re-re has redesigned diffs. The only thing actually holding the diff outdrives in place is the pressure from the dogbone (inner) end of the front universal shaft pressing on a sponge bushing placed within the outdrive/drivecup. It gets away with this because, on the stock front suspension set-up, the universal driveshafts are in line with the inner pivot points of the front suspension arm. The Full Option/Jamie Booth arrangement alters this feature by repositioning the inner pivot points for more caster, taking the front driveshafts now, out of line, with the inner arm pivot points. 

I could see it working with the vintage diffs as Jamie did BITD since the vintage diff's outdrives feature a more positive engagement with the diff (they actually have a shaft entering the diff).  The re-re however, has no shaft, relying on shallow drivetabs on the backside of the outdrive's cup and a dinky piece of sponge bushing to hold them engaged. I'm surprised the Full Option kit's arrangement doesn't cause these to pop out during running. 

Answering your last sentence; They can fall out, at least they did for me many times initially. I am more or less restricted to running a very short upper arm to achieve a certain camber change characteristic which keeps the CVD pin more or less in the same place in the outdrive. Doing so enables me to get away with a full sponge piece without binding. I still thought the car felt better with longer top arms and will probably try it again the future, but with either gear diff or vintage ball diff.

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Ooops, its more then a year ago I was trying to built the Full Option kit. Got some time to get back into it and it was good to take a break.

I was observing the photos of the original again and I am 100% shure the front C-hubs where custom made. So what now? Seems like I have to draw them too.

Meanwhile I put the Full Option parts back to the bags into the box to keep it as it is, a nice tuning kit for the Egress.

Whats new now on this one: 

  • front and rear suspension mounts from 7075 aluminum.
  • rear poles made of modified original Tamiya stays
  • full carbon chassis and damper stay (now all drills aligne)
  • fiberglas spacer between chassis, gearbox & rear suspension mounts

What next:

  • front bottom gearbox cover needs cutouts along front susp mounts so they fit on perfectly
  • drawing front c-hubs
  • blue nylon suspension arms
  • need some small bits and pieces such as 6mm brass ballends & black coated turnbuckles

I think this one will be pretty close to that original Egress knowen from that topic on another related platform. But have a look : )

jbegress_07.jpg

jbegress_08.jpg

jbegress_09.jpg
Well, lightgreen or lightbrown gfk sheets where not available at that time, so its dark-G10.

jbegress_010.jpg

jbegress_012.jpg

jbegress_013.jpgThis little  The The offset on the bottom side of the suspension mounts will be eleminated once I modified the gearbox cover.

Well, finally I got a bit connected to the Egress but somehow I am a Dyna Storm guy, one for each of us. 

Good night for now.

 

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On 1/14/2022 at 11:00 PM, pUs said:

1664715595_Skrmavbild2022-01-14kl_22_59_24.png.7fdbf7c871cd64520f038506c26d2f20.png

Is this really a Manta Ray / Top force spec hub carrier? If it is, I just can't understand how an Astute universal would fit the way it does..

Things are still a mystery. Did some reverse engineering based on all knowen pics found on the web. Geometry regarding turnbuckles and steering looking fine to me now. Steering does work also, no collisions.

Fact is, the suspension arms have 1:1 measures taken from the Full Option kit. CVDs taken from Astute/DynaStorm. Knuckles taken from TF/Hotshot2.

But as you can see, the horizontal bar of the c-hubs is still about 5mm to long. But where to reduce lengths? CVDs fits perfect to the diff cups and the knuckles give the position through the ball bearings and c-clip. For me it still looks like kardans are further into the knuckle arms at the original car, but how can this be? Photos show both bearings where used. And if they are less wide, how to deal with overlenght of the CVD to the 12mm hex/wheel side?

One thing I have in my mid is, that original suspension arms where that bit longer. But who can tell me? @LongRat @pUs @kontemax Any idear guys? Thanks in advance.

jbegress_014.jpg

jbegress_014b.jpg
Source: Unknown/Tamiyaclub

 

jbegress_015.jpg

 

jbegress_016.jpg


The black marked area has a tiny, tiny bit contact to the CVD on its inside, not to mention...

jbegress_017.jpg

 

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One more perspectiv:

jbegress_018b.jpg
Source: Unknown/Tamiyaclub

jbegress_018.jpg


See! I tried to rearrange things like on the original. Kardan is far more into the knuckle arm at the original one. Its all about 4-5mm. Funny, you can also see traces of contact between CVD and c-hub on the original one.

So sow do I get the CVD further into the knuckle arm and what do I do with the offset on the wheel side then? :unsure:

 

EDIT: Here you can spot the inner bearing... at least it looks like.

jbegress_019.jpg

Source: Unknown/Tamiyaclub

EDIT2:
Nothing special at the 12mm hex side... so how could the short part of the CVD be so short? Modified? Optical illusion?

jbegress_020.jpg
Source: Unknown/Tamiyaclub

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43 minutes ago, kontemax said:

Use Top Force Evo cvd.


Max

Exactly what I found out this second, Max. It must be Astute/DS shaft with TF front end. The Hex with this three groves is for pin and this is what made the puzzle. Need to put them apart and swap fronts, done...

jbegress_021.jpg

 

Oh boy : )

On 1/22/2022 at 11:30 PM, LongRat said:

 I am not sure what the CVDs were but could have had custom or modified stub axles. 

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1 hour ago, Collin said:

Exactly what I found out this second, Max. It must be Astute/DS shaft with TF front end. The Hex with this three groves is for pin and this is what made the puzzle. Need to put them apart and swap fronts, done...

The hubs give the rules, not the arms.

Max

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1 minute ago, Collin said:

Did not sayed anything about arms, did I?

I don't know, I didn't read the lines, I watched only the pictures, sorry.

Max

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Just now, kontemax said:

I don't know, I didn't read the lines, I watched only the pictures, sorry.

Max

All fine.

CVDs are already disassembled, there is so less meat around the pins, its horrible if you see them in parts. Started with a 3mm milling tool but have to press out the rest of the pins from this cubes. Doing some nice fitting pins on the lathe after and pressing all together.

More about soon.

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22 minutes ago, Collin said:

All fine.

CVDs are already disassembled, there is so less meat around the pins, its horrible if you see them in parts. Started with a 3mm milling tool but have to press out the rest of the pins from this cubes. Doing some nice fitting pins on the lathe after and pressing all together.

More about soon.

I would suggest you to switch to modern CVDs...

Max

 

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34 minutes ago, kontemax said:

I would suggest you to switch to modern CVDs...

Max

 

It is a collector replica model, should be as close as possible to the original. Will never run.

 

 

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Once you know what to do things are sooo easy : ) This are the famous Astute Top Force shafts.

jbegress_022.jpg

Geometry looking good now. Doing the drawings now and passing things to the CNC guy.

jbegress_023.jpg

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