Kids Perceptions - Basic Kits vs Technical kits

[SNAKEBITE 40]

I took my lad out on Saturday and Sunday for a blast with the cars.Sunday was a better day as I had mine running a bit better (steering servo **** up!) and we were running around the car park of the company I work for.

Having built a small ramp we were going over it when my boy said his car looked better than mine over the ramp!

Looking again I saw what he meant. His friction damped Rising Fighter was bobbing round like a pogo stick, looking like it was doing something, where as my oil damped Neo fighter just stayed smooth on the ground.

Watching his car run up and down it was obvious the handling was not as good, but it just looked a lot busier, and he was enjoying it more because of it.

 

When I got mine I chose a bit more carefully because I wanted the oil dampers etc, and I was going to upgrade my son's at some point as well. But after seeing him on Sunday I'm not sure he's going to want me to.

In short, I think that as an adult I was getting too fixated on the performance of the car as opposed to a nine year olds view of just wanting it to look good!

[zomboided 374]

Surely that's why we all go and buy Lunchboxes!

[Mad Ax 8349]

It's an interesting point, although whether you want a top-handling buggy or a bouncy one on pogo shocks largely depends on where you're going to drive it.

My first experience of buggies was a used Grasshopper with a 540 motor and bald rear tyres.  I'm not sure I ever got it successfully over a ramp because it would usually spin out before it got there.  I would lay out a course around the concrete, gravel and dust in the yard but I would struggle to complete a lap without spinning out or getting stuck on something.

But there's a fine line between something being too crude to drive and too good to enjoy.  Back in the summer I was at a local friendly meet, driving my Bear Hawk around a makeshift grass track.  I was setting reasonable laptimes in between spinning out, rolling over or getting stuck on the track barriers.  A friend offered a handset swap, giving me the controls of a vintage Yokomo buggy.  Talk about blown away!  That thing went exactly where I told it.  It was effortless.  He, on the other hand, was having a horrible time driving my Bear Hawk.

For the first time I really appreciated the difference between design philosophies.  I was never going to win any trophies with the Bear Hawk but I could have a lot more fun kicking up rooster tails, donuting in the dirt, wheelying on the grass and bouncing over jumps.  The quest to be competitive often results in a stale, lifeless class (just look at F1!)

[Newsh 111]

I can see what you mean

I thought about modifying my Lunchbox, as other than being fully ballraced its not got any other mods

I watched Matteo's video of his stock Lunchbox bouncing around in the sand, and after getting my own and having it do the same, i decided to leave the stock shocks on it, as its so much fun to drive that i'm happy with it

I only drive it on soft ground though, never tarmac.

[Saito2 6014]

Great point! I think its this balance of fun or precision that's makes Tamiyas  such interesting runners. We all seem to have our preferences. For me, a DT-02 or even Blitzer handles too well but a Hornet, not well enough. I enjoy ripping around with a Super Champ, Wild One or Fox much more. I have a fleet of big monster trucks but always keep a stock Clod on hand because I like watching it bounce about.

[Coopdevil 18]

Your lad's comment about the Rising Fighter seems to be echoed by a lot of people.

I actually went down the route of trying (and failing) to get my RF to work "properly" messing around with tyres, wheels, oil shocks, oil weight etc. and it was all a total waste of time that led to me disliking the thing immensely and it gathering dust for years on top of a bookcase. When I gave up and returned it to the pogo sticks and tried to appreciate it for what it was, it suddenly "clicked".

I've taken it around the estate recently twice on frosty mornings just for fun oversteering and wheel spinning and it is fun to _watch_. You also feel like you are doing something, whereas my old Ansmann Mad Rat tended to feel as if it was doing all the work and dialing you out of the experience.

Coop

[Nitomor 2118]

I'm loving my Hornet with Lipo and Lunchbox wheels. It's awesome like this, for me it is the sweet spot and it is one of my regular bashers now. 

[SNAKEBITE 40]

Thanks for the replies, I wasn't too sure I explained myself properly, but it seems you have understood exactly what I was trying to say!

I can't believe how much fun it is again now, and sharing it with my son is all the better!

[Supercoolnothing 721]

I can totally relate to this, I've spent years racing rc at both club and national level, spending every spare penny keeping my cars competitive, seeking any performance edge I could get and almost totally burned myself out with the hobby until the day I impulse bought my lunchie and realised that I was missing the one thing I had been missing for ages and that was fun! Since then I've pretty much abandoned racing and have spent more time playing with the lunchie and my cc01 and grinning like a loon the entire time. 

I think as we get older we forget about having fun with our "toys" and keep looking for ways to modify and hop them up and that sometimes takes away the whole of what makes them fun. 

[Terz1 745]

I just have to echoe what has already been said. A standard tamiya with friction shocks and a standard motor can be loads of fun. I don't want to take away from people that have invested time and money improving their models (me included) but I have so much fun with my unmodified hornet. That back end bouncing around  . I think their lack of precision and unpridictable handling keep you on the edge of your seat. Instead of sweeping around a corner you laugh and think, wow it actually made it around the corner! 

[Prescient 670]

The only thing more fun than a lunch box imo is a stock Clod Buster. All that retro 80s bouncy goodness of friction dampers and pnu tyres.

[markbt73 4922]

This comes up all the time in racing, both 1:1 and 1:10 scale. A fast lap always looks slow. If you're hitting your marks and consistently holding a nice tight line, you'll look boring to an observer, but you'll be faster than someone hanging the tail out in every turn.

I guess what we need to remember, or be reminded of by a nine year old, is that looking cool is sometimes more important...

[Theibault 1534]

This is exactly the reason why I don't modify my Re Re's. I bought them to enjoy and time travel with the feelings I had as a kid. I'm lucky enough to have many RC's. I have a whole fleet of race only technically superior vehicles for all out performance. And you know what? I quit racing a few years ago because I got tired of grown men taking playing with toys too seriously. Shame on anyone who would escalate playing with toys to wanting to fight or yell and scream like a lunatic. I now just bash exclusively and my race vehicles do get used but nowhere as much as my others. I get the most enjoyment out of some of the worst handling vehicles I have such as my Super Clod, Hornet, Lunchbox, and my faves, all the WR02 chassis variants. Oh, and my Avante. Don't tell anyone but it and the Egress are NOT good handling cars but they are a joy to run.

[Nobbi1977 1769]

You can throw a lot of money at a rising fighter and it will still not be a lot better. Once he is better at driving or you go on rough stuff where every bump alters the handling in a different way he might change him mind and want your car

[RiZZa 41]

I bought a rere Holiday Buggy recently. My only upgrades are bearings, lipo friendly esc and a 21t motor. I've thought about oil shocks and better tires but I kind of like the 'on edge' driving feel with the pogos and semi plastic tires.

[Mad Ax 8349]

15 hours ago, markbt73 said:

This comes up all the time in racing, both 1:1 and 1:10 scale. A fast lap always looks slow. If you're hitting your marks and consistently holding a nice tight line, you'll look boring to an observer, but you'll be faster than someone hanging the tail out in every turn.

Oddly enough this post reminds me of an epiphany I had last summer.

I try to go to RC bashes as often as I can, and I always spend a lot of time looking enviously at everyone else's runners.  Why do their cars look so much better than mine?  I stand on the sidelines and watch them go around the track and I'm amazed.  They're like little tiny versions of real cars.  Then I run mine, and they're all over the place.  They bounce, they wobble, they look ungainly and slow, they look like children's toys.

Well, last summer I was experiencing this very feeling while I was driving my Buggy Champ in the 2-hour Endurance event.  I was watching my Buggy Champ bounce and crash over every jump and getting myself quite upset.  Then 20 minutes into the race I handed the controller over to my teammate and went out to do a 20 minute marshalling stint.  I was watching all the cars come by, looking smooth and composed and generally brilliant, including this cool-looking Buggy Champ wearing a Kamtec Baja shell with a race-inspired paint job.  Mi Kamtec Baja shell, on my Buggy Champ.

It really was a moment of dawning realisation - all this time I thought everyone else had better cars than me, even when those cars don't seem to have been modified in any way.  The truth was I was looking at them all wrong: my cars I see from the perspective of a driver, feeling the faults in the track and the chassis.  Their cars I was seeing from the perspective of a spectator, watching the end result but not seeing the hard work going into getting it.

It made me appreciate what I have a whole lot more.

[markbt73 4922]

5 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

Oddly enough this post reminds me of an epiphany I had last summer.

I try to go to RC bashes as often as I can, and I always spend a lot of time looking enviously at everyone else's runners.  Why do their cars look so much better than mine?  I stand on the sidelines and watch them go around the track and I'm amazed.  They're like little tiny versions of real cars.  Then I run mine, and they're all over the place.  They bounce, they wobble, they look ungainly and slow, they look like children's toys.

Well, last summer I was experiencing this very feeling while I was driving my Buggy Champ in the 2-hour Endurance event.  I was watching my Buggy Champ bounce and crash over every jump and getting myself quite upset.  Then 20 minutes into the race I handed the controller over to my teammate and went out to do a 20 minute marshalling stint.  I was watching all the cars come by, looking smooth and composed and generally brilliant, including this cool-looking Buggy Champ wearing a Kamtec Baja shell with a race-inspired paint job.  Mi Kamtec Baja shell, on my Buggy Champ.

It really was a moment of dawning realisation - all this time I thought everyone else had better cars than me, even when those cars don't seem to have been modified in any way.  The truth was I was looking at them all wrong: my cars I see from the perspective of a driver, feeling the faults in the track and the chassis.  Their cars I was seeing from the perspective of a spectator, watching the end result but not seeing the hard work going into getting it.

It made me appreciate what I have a whole lot more.

I had a similar moment when I tried autocrossing many years ago. I felt like I was all over the place, making mistakes, not pushing hard enough, and in fact my times weren't great (but they weren't terrible either). But about a week later, I saw the photos from the event, and there I was, my car leaned way over in the turn just like everyone else's, looking intent and determined, like I knew what I was doing. We're always our own worst critic, or at least we were, before the age of the internet troll.

[Mad Ax 8349]

12 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

We're always our own worst critic, or at least we were, before the age of the internet troll.

this is going in "quotes of the week"

[qatmix 785]

People have fun when they are faced with a challenge. It's how we operate from the day we are born and that is why cars of different abilities are better for different circumstances to gain fun from driving them. For example

I love racing, raced for 3 decades on and off. When you race, your objective is to simply win. So the joy is related to tuning your car to be essentially neutral to your driving input so you can command it around the track with confidence as you clip apexes. Obviously no car is that good, so the challenge is to tune it to work better for your style, then you work towards your bigger challenge of winning the race. 

Bashing  covers a broad range of activities, however it usually does not include an obvious challenge. So if you have a car that is totally able, and just copes with everything you ask it to do, it becomes a little bit boring as there is no challenge. However a car that is not fully capable brings challenge into the equation, as you are battling against the car itself, using more control and skill to make it perform the actions in your head.  You then feel accomplished when you get the car to climb the hill, jump the gap, slide around the corner in controlled drift etc

 

[Driveforfun 69]

Definitely a great point - I'm finding the same thing with my 4 year old - which you can imagine is an even further away POV. Lately ive concentrated on putting things like working police sirens on our RC SCT, because he likes playing "good guys vs bad guys". As much as he has done alot of RC driving for a 4 year old already, he often prefers to be chased instead right now!