1979 NIB Rough Rider

[zdanm 19]

Very proud to have recently acquired this beauty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SRB Bloke 237]

You're a very lucky man 

That's a good looking Mk1 ( I think).

[mongoose1983 3335]

FANTASTIC PURCHASE !! And YES that's a MK1 !! WOW

[Saito2 6686]

That's incredible. Very nice.

[Swarm 242]

Congrats on your RR purchase .

Cant beat that old world vintage feel !

 

[kasparov 71]

Very nice!!!

 

Was this the one off ebay recently?

[zdanm 19]

Thanks folks. I should maybe have posted here to start, but my "story" leading to this RR and photos of my Sand Scorcher at age 13 is here;

 

 

 

[Hibernaculum 933]

Yep that looks like a Rough Rider Mk1 kit, although it is hard to see every little part. I believe there are about 9 things to check to confirm Mk1 variant status. 

Either way, it's a major piece of vintage toy history, still new in the box    The stuff of dreams back in 1979, and now the stuff of even bigger dreams due to it's significance and extreme rarity. Nothing beats seeing historic vintage toys, still brand-new like this.

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

First of all, I want to emphasize that I really appreciate a NIB early Rough Rider in this condition. It's absolutely superb and I in no way intend to be negative about it.

 

However, as some of you know, I don't belong to the fans who consider the Rough Rider (and Sand Scorcher) to be either Mk. I or Mk. II. As discussed and proved with manuals scans in this forum before, there exist way more than just two versions. Or in other words, the changes made to the SRB weren't all implemented at the same distinct time. No clean cut! There isn't one single "before" and "after" that justifies splitting the differences in just Mk.I vs. Mk.II.  It can of course be argued that the initial version was Mk.I and the version following after that Mk.II, but where would it then end with all the changes made, including some that seem to have been running changes? Mk. IV? Mk. XIII? Mk. XX?  

 

That said, the kit in the pics is obviously of relatively early  production and I guess we all would agree on that. However, the initial production Rough Rider came with the more realistic boxart, with "scale" front bumper, double rear dampers, nerf bars , window nets, more realistic dampers and suspension, front brake details and probably more that I can't remember right now. As for what was in the kit, initial production Rough Riders and Sand Scorchers had a different knurling on the lower brass caps for the dampers. This knurling was so sharp that it would cut through the skin when tightening the caps and for obvious reasons, this was changed very soon.  

 

As for the rarity of the sharp knurling:

When new parts for the SRB started to get scarce, I quite often had to disappoint customers that came or called for parts. As we're talking late eighties/early nineties, buying NOS online was out of question, so when the distributors ran out of parts, the only possibility would have been to visit a lot of shops, still with poor chances of finding the parts they needed. So, most of them then wanted to get rid of their models, often to buy something new, so regularly, I ended up buying their old SRB's to disassemble them for useable parts I wanted to keep. After getting some, my colleagues, who didn't have much interest in old Tamiya models, started to ask if I soon didn't have enough SRB-parts. So it turned into a joke and a sport, making me even more eager to absorb as many of the customers' SRB-wrecks as possible. Of the roughly 120 wrecks I bought "back" before moving abroad in 2000, only one of them had the early sharp knurling although roughly 1/3 of the 120'ish had the front shock towers with screws as spring stoppers and the gearbox housing without the "massive" lower cage mount.

 

So, considering that the Rough Rider was released in November 1979, I reckon it's possible that the knurling had been changed before 1980, but I'm pretty confident that it took a bit longer before the initial boxart was replaced.  As I hadn't started recording this type of information yet back then and it's soon 40 years ago, I don't know any exact dates, but a kit with black bumper, "screw" spring stoppers, non-"massive" lower cage mount etc., but without the initial boxart, it can hardly be of 1979-vintage. I reckon 1980, possibly first half of 1980, is realistic.

[zdanm 19]

Wow, thanks for the detailed and interesting analysis. Very much appreciated. I myself have no clue if this is a 1979 or 1980 model. Just reiterating what I was told. Black "BUGY" bumper, 58015/RA5015 kit, but doing a little more research I see the very early models (I think these were only released late in 1979, November?) also had black grub screws in the UJ's? 

Ill also try to find photos of the different box art. 

Thanks for the replies !

Dan

[mongoose1983 3335]

Fantastic information Mokei Kagaku!

I had no idea about early boxes. I'm sorry it's really no place to ask about it but I do remember reading somewhere about an original Toyota Bruiser box without the "Bruiser" word. What do you know about that one?

[SRB Bloke 237]

That's some nice reference info. Thanks 😃

Here's another question Did the sand scorcher box art change over the years. 😃

[NWarty 1325]

Dagnabbit! Mongoose beat me to it

 

[Hibernaculum 933]

19 hours ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

the changes made to the SRB weren't all implemented at the same distinct time. No clean cut! There isn't one single "before" and "after" that justifies splitting the differences in just Mk.I vs. Mk.II.  It can of course be argued that the initial version was Mk.I and the version following after that Mk.II, but where would it then end with all the changes made, including some that seem to have been running changes? Mk. IV? Mk. XIII? Mk. XX?  

Having wrestled with this for a long time, I now agree, and think Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 etc is too hard with many vintage Tamiya kits.

Interestingly, the system still works OK for vintage RTR cars. Take the Taiyo Jet Hopper for instance. Because they came pre-assembled, or were less complex, there was a greater likelihood of distinct phases of the product.

But not with unassembled R/C kits. There are simply too many parts. And Tamiya, Kyosho, Associated and others made too many running changes to those specific, individual parts, for us to untangle them into Mk1, Mk2,...MkX. The lengthy history of tweaks to the original Team Associated RC10 is another reminder of this. It's a fun archaeological exercise to work out what parts your RC10 has. But apart from knowing if yours was the absolute first vintage RC10 variant, or perhaps the absolute last, the rest is mere guesswork as to the "period" a kit came from.

The same thing applies to kits like the Rough Rider. There are still 2 distinct phases for each vintage Tamiya kit: the earliest vintage kit, and the latest vintage kit. It's just that everything in between is essentially "mid-production vintage".

To illustrate, here is a quick photoshop mock-up of what I am thinking:

To further explain why I now feel this way...

I have a couple of NIB Rough Riders. In one of them, the blister containing the uprights (which is still sealed) contains one "Mk1" upright and one "Mk2" upright. Crazy, right? I can post a photo if you like. Not only were Tamiya's kit changes phased in, but it seems some of them were phased in haphazardly, with staff throwing parts into boxes from across the room. It was apparently possible to have a combination of old and new, of the same part, in the same kit.

Yep. 

I suspect the Hotshot Mk1 people are going to oppose me on this, and take me to the Supreme Court under Clause 23534B which states "The Hotshot Mk1 was a distinct phase that did not blend into later kits".

Does this still hold? Maybe it does. What a pain in the butt. LOL.

H.

PS. Vintage vs Remake is still a whole separate subject, which is worth pursuing for those who are interested in the differences between 1980s parts, and 2005+ parts.

 

 

[zdanm 19]

Fascinating stuff. I've learned a lot, thanks to the replies from the Sherlocks in this thread. Crazy that Tamiya could mix and match what ought to be similar vintage left and right parts!  A bit like running 2 different tyres on the same axle! On the basis thereof and at risk of introducing a new sub-category it appears I have a (relatively early) mid production vintage RR!

Dan

 

[NWarty 1325]

Zdanm,

Great thread and I'm sure the excitement of building this kit is incredible. What a gorgeous example. 

[wildwillhappy 15]

Who did the box artwork? Its not a photo is it?

wild

[WillyChang 1814]

Box artwork is handdrawn afaik. 

[Hibernaculum 933]

Correct. e.g... 

(source)

[THE SMOOTHEE 56]

Congrats! What an awesome kit to have in your arsenal, one I'm sure we would all be proud to own. 

The Rough Rider is the last SRB kit I need for the big four, that is if you class the Super Champ as an SRB.

Thanks for posting her up and sharing.

[Cruiser075 2]

Wow i never new there were so many variants, Ive been given a Sand Scorcher which is in fairly good condition and complete, im lead to believe it was bought in the late 70's is there anyway to confirm if that is the case?

[TWINSET 1793]

The 2 small holes toward the top of the front uprights (Labelled Front Axle(L) and Front Axle (R) below) will point towards an early kit - they'll have screws in them to limit spring travel
Pretty sure that's a clear indicator of the earliest kits

[wildwillhappy 15]

you know what gets me about tamiya box art, is that its make you want it. Just like Airfix kits box art. Tamiya should do a book on all the kits box art. 

That would be a thick book. Would have to have info about the artist as well

wild

[drcarlos 57]

On 2017-5-20 at 5:42 PM, TWINSET said:

The 2 small holes toward the top of the front uprights (Labelled Front Axle(L) and Front Axle (R) below) will point towards an early kit - they'll have screws in them to limit spring travel
Pretty sure that's a clear indicator of the earliest kits

****, that means all those year ago I sold my early release for buttons. The screw holes are actually a very rudimentary way of setting preload in the front springs. I remember messing around with this trying to dial out some front end bounce on mine as I wanted to keep up with my brothers Fox. Ultimately fruitless it was as the fox was a much more advanced thing.

Carl.

[Country Mike 120]

I'd'a had that built by now.