ThunderDragonCy

Thunder Dragon - Ongoing Chassis Development - now with TRF suspension

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Yes that is exactly right. Regular hexes go on no problem. I have a mix of cheap ebay jobs and tamiya metal (not clamp). 

That's what I thought it just seemed too simple lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ThunderDragonCy,

Love look of these wheels:-

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/ftx-rear-buggy-wheel-black-vantage/rc-car-products/365789

With the Thundershot range having 4 same width wheels would it be better to fit 4 rears rather than 2 fronts?

Also have you a link to the hexs I need and the tires you recommend please?

I will be running on a mix of surfaces.

Just filled a basket at Time Tunnel for parts the 2 rebuilds. £65 and no tires as yet.

1.jpeg

20171111_190536.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ThunderDragonCy, also your Super A5 part- any more updates or performance and availability?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Baddon said:

ThunderDragonCy,

Love look of these wheels:-

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/ftx-rear-buggy-wheel-black-vantage/rc-car-products/365789

With the Thundershot range having 4 same width wheels would it be better to fit 4 rears rather than 2 fronts?

Also have you a link to the hexs I need and the tires you recommend please?

I will be running on a mix of surfaces.

Just filled a basket at Time Tunnel for parts the 2 rebuilds. £65 and no tires as yet.

1.jpeg

20171111_190536.jpg

Since switching off the original wheels I have used the more usual narrower fronts and haven't found a problem. Still plenty of grip. 

My favourite tyres are the Schumacher CAT Block for 2" wheels. They will fit straight on the bigwig wheels on the scorcher. The original wheels in your Thunder shot are 1.9" and virtually nothing fits those apart from the original tyres, although these are available on eBay. 

Pretty much any 12mm metal hex 5 or 6mm thick will do the job. Direct replacement for the three stud mounting. 

Because I like the 2" Schumacher tyres so much I recently ditched my 2.2" wheels and bought some Egress lightweight wheels which are 2". This is mine at the moment:

2017-12-02_06-08-58

The narrower front wheel also allowed me to fit some DF03 uprights i had spare which give way more steering angle. They need a bit of modification and shimming to fit the c-hubs but they work well. I had to drill the kingpin hole to 3.5mm and tap it for the M4 thread of the kingpins, then I put a 850 sized bronze bushing spare from installing 850 bearings in my kits underneath and M5 shims on top.

Thunder Dragon 10deg caster C hubs and DT03 uprights

My Super A5 has been completely solid. If you'd like one I can get you a quote from Shapeways.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

please on the A5 part.

I did not know the rims were Bigwig Rims, there are two sets of them, so that means I dont need adaptors just 2" tires?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AGH, so they are they have the stock boomerang/thundershot wheel adaptor/drive on back. I even have a spare set of them.

I also have 4 decent Thundershot rims and 3 of 4 tires in decent used condition, the other is badly flat spotted....is it worth asking on here for 1 about half used? That would save me starting into new tires all round.

 

Have to say the Vanquish rims are sub zero. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh and yes, 2" tyres will go on the bigwig rims. Maybe spray the spare set black for the Thundershot? Polycarbonate paint is apparently good, or rit dye if you are feeling brave. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been a while since i added to this, but been running and tinkering a lot. Took a few pics in sunshine this afternoon during a quick run in the park

20180325_165904

Now running on grass a lot and the car is incredibly on the nose with the new steering setup and block tyres. I have got it about right now running the DF03 gold medium rear spring and black soft fronts. I also cut the outer row of blocks off the front tyres which was the clincher.

I am still running the 2900kv brushless with 8.4v 3800mah nimh battery. Put the steel 17t pinion from my DT03 (they both run 0.8 mod gears) in it and it has really woken up. I think with these vintage cars you need to go big on the gearing with modern motors. It flies now.

I have gone through a couple of iterationa on the 10 deg front c hubs, now making them dedicated to to DF03 uprights. Latest version lowers the front arm angle for less aggressive turn in and a couple of arm length options.

20180325_170014

Also designed some 3D printed steering arms to try and de-slop the steering. Due to space constraints on the tub i had to use 630 bearings. I pushed the mounting screws through from the inside and tightened a nut down on the outside to make these as solid as possible. Then a 0.3mm shim to stand the bearing off the nut, then slide the arm on. Another 0.3mm shim then a nylock nut. Needs to be locking because you can't tighten it doen hard or it binds the bearings. Just tight enough for no slop is the one.

Also uses a ball connector and threaded bar cross link. Needed to space the bumper connection to the tub by 1mm to make it all clear. Much tighter steering.

20180325_165953

Finally after noting how high the top arm mounting point is on my vintage rear uprights compared to the Fire Dragon onwards and rere version, i decided to do my own version. Inspired by thr 3 deg uprights i did for my DT03, these are also 3 deg toe in, less slop on the axle end, less slop on the wishbone (no shims needed anymore) and options for longer rear arms to give more tuning options. 

20180325_165925

It is running so nicely right now. Going to do a new shell for it soon. Got a TBG one and some MCI decals waiting for paint. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you haven't seen this thread before it has been on the Vintage forum up to now. Thought i would move it here as I am constantly tweaking things.

Couple of things came together this evening. The Thunder Dragon has been in bits awaiting a new tub so I took advantage to do a couple of other things. 

Firstly, a 1 way roller/spool in the front. Follows @MadInventor thread on this over on the Vintage forum. Never run one before and I am intrigued. Super easy install. Just square out the rounded recesses in the diff casing and replace the bevel gears with the spool.

20180414_120249

It wasn't obvious at first, but the metal shim in the spool kit goes here

20180414_120243

You install with the "lock directional engraving this way up. It is this kit.

20180414_114440

Here is @MadInventor install thread:

Second thing i did during re-assembly was figure out an alloy prop upgrade. Yes, that is right, it IS possible to do away with the coat hanger!

Firstly I tried the full Super Hot Shot ReRe setup. The outdrives for the gearboxes are a straight swap. These ones just don't have the retaining e-clip of the Thunder Dragon design. Part number is 9808130.

Unfortunately the Super Hot Shot alloy prop was too short, but only just. I measured it at 136mm. The ever helpful Tony's Tamiya Parts agreed to take my Hot Shot back and swap for the TT02 hop up shaft 54501 which 140mm. Well what do you know? IT FITS!!!! AND IT'S BLUE!!!!

20180424_195930

There is quite a lot of free play fore-aft (although not so much that it could fall out) but it felt a bit loose to me. I put an old black shock o ring in each outdrives cup and it now doesn't move at all. This could be too far the other way, but I haven't run it yet to check.

Also painted my new TBG shell in Core RC neon carrot. Literally does what it says on the tin!

2018-04-14_08-31-24

My custom MCI decals arrived today along with some more shapeways parts so there will be more later this week.

Cheers!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like the new centre drive shaft. You made a better job of squaring out the rounded recesses than I did as well. I think I need a sharper knife ......

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frustratingly after getting the buggy back together in time for a run today my battery seems to have died. Gutted. No idea. Taking charge but won't power the car. 

Anyhow, chucking it down with rain this evening so finally sat down with my new decals and finished the new shell. Chuffed to bits with how it has come out. It is the stock decal design with blue switched for purple and red for teal. Will get some better photos in daylight. Hopefully sort my battery and run it too.

Tamiya 58073 Thunder Dragon alternative colour scheme. Neon orange with decals in purple/yellow/teal

Orange/yellow/purple/teal work so nicely together. This is my second shell to mix these colours after my Grasshopper3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gave it a quick run on wet grass this morning. Kept cutting out occasionally, but now with fan on ESC still running. Suspect battery is somehow compromised but anyway. Ran lovely. Alloy driveshaft seems good. One way in the front is ACE! Turns in really crisply on neutral throttle due to no front wheel braking, then fires out of turns. You can see the front dragging the chassis straight. Brief test, but very excited by this. Got a couple of pics in the drizzle

20180426_09034120180426_090402

Tried some one handed driving. Failed!

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick update on the TT02 prop shaft. Having run it and noticed some noise and then so tell marks on the shaft, it seems it catches the bottom of the rear prop shaft hole in the tub, and the battery compartment bulkhead, and also the side of the MSC tray. Not so straightforward then! 

With the rear gearbox removed I ran a 6.5mm drill through the hole and cut a groove in the bottom of the hole and the battery bulkhead to clear the shaft. I removed the MSC tray completely and mounted the ESC over the old MSC servo compartment. Prop shaft is now completely free. Might look at doing a replacement MSC plate which clears the shaft and is better for mounting an ESC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yesterday I ran on a track for the first time. Quite a tight indoor fine astro surface. The setup on my car became very obviously "on the nose" and twitchy on turn in. I kept tipping it over! One of the guys was taking pics though and got some belters.

2018-04-28_09-02-302018-04-28_09-04-16Robin Hood Raceway with Tamiya Junkies FB guys. First time at a track. Belting!

A change of springs really helped (went to the black DF03 springs all round which constituted a step softer rear and a step stiffer front) but I suspect the one way was making it more of a handful. I did adjust my driving to be less binary on the throttle and it worked a lot better when staying smoothly on a low throttle through fast turns to keep the fronts engaged. I didn't have time to tear down the front end to try a geared diff too, and it was my first time so i had a lot to learn. I suspect much lower ride height for smooth astro will help everything next time I go to the track. 

In general run in wide open space in a grass field. For this the one way is great. Turn in is really good and i can see the front dragging the car straight when i pin the throttle after making a turn. I suspect on a low grip loose surface the combo of crisp turn in and locked axle traction would be superb.

Going to play with the setup a bit more to try and get it a bit more neutral. It is quite tail happy on turn in on the grass too, but that is kind of fun! Would be good to have a better starting point next time I run on the track though.  

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to basics on the setup! Started with damping. To get a steady turn in and wider turning circle you need heavier damping front. Now i am in no way comparing myself to him, but Lee Martin's 4wd setup for Robin Hood Raceway national 3 weeks ago was on petit rc. He was using 350wt rear and 550wt front. Big difference. As i can't find my 3 hole front pistons I am stick with 2 hole for the time being so I went with 238wt rear and 500wt front. If I get 3 hole pistons I will go to 350wt rear, 600wt front. 

This definitely helped keep the car more calm. Also gave the rear a little more grip too. Still had a really nose up stance though, with loads of sag at the rear and hardly any at the front. With soft enough front springs for decent ride height it was way too grippy and hooked a lot too. Now, I run a front shock mount I designed myself to run 70mm eye to eye CVAs and clear the Thunder Dragon body. Twin shocks don't fit brilliantly under the nose, and the wider Terra Scorcher mount fouls the body completely. I designed it around the top position being on the upper lift stop. I had no real scope to reduce ride height. To check the stock setting I put the short eyelets on the shocks (64mm) and put the origjnal kit mount back on. This dropped the ride height about 20mm! Too low if you ask me, but I ran it quickly and despite the angled shock position making the springs way too soft it handled much better. Much less edgy. Onto something! Next step was to put my mount back on and leave the shocks at 64mm. Spot on! Higher than the kit, but much lower than before. 

20180501_125151

After this I also tore down the steer ing system. My 3D printed bearing pivot steering arms needed the bumper spacing out to clear. With the lower front I couldn't afford the reduced clearance so I rebuild without skme washers and put it back together. Just clears so all good. Also was getting bump steer with the DF03 uprights. I noticed they were slightly offset on the arms so I flipped them and swapped side to side so the ball end is on top of the arm and is lower. This extra steering arm angle has cured the bump steer. Yes! Also read up some more on Ackerman steering and shifted the steering ball to the front hole which increases Ackerman effect which also reduces twitchiness.

20180501_125142

Gave it a quick on the grass just now and it is handling really nicely. Much less twitchy. Still plenty of grip and positive turn in, but feels much less "tippy". Didn't grip roll once. Definitely made a good step forward. Shame it's going to be a couple of months before I get to run on the track again.

20180501_125134

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Man1c M0nk3y said:

Interesting update. Lost me with most of it 😂

Lost is right. Having changed the shock mount, uprights, c-hubs and steering system the only thing left stock is the wishbone! I had got a bit lost, so was good to go back to original settings on something and get a feel for where the car was set 'as designed'. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick handling update : Done a bit more work with it. It was still a bit too on the nose, too much grip front v rear. Based on the rcscrapyard buggy setup guide I use, I dropped the oil weight rear to 22.5wt/238cst and increased front to 46wt/600wt. Went to stiffest silver DF03 springs. Much better balance but still not quite there. Very aggressive turn in. My front shock mount gives very upright shocks. I put the kit front mount back on and although much too soft it does give softer turn in. Going to do a new mount as angled as possible on the shocks whilst still clearing the body. Also got some mini spike rear tyres coming to see if some fresh tyres help.

Finally, got this today. Needed a plate for my ESC to clear the TT02 prop shaft. I am rubbish at making stuff but reasonably handy designing so did a drawing and got fibre lyte to make it. Under a tenner and fits perfectly! 

20180508_211257

Might need a new chassis cover to cut the hole for the ESC tighter to keep more muck out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you have read this recently you'll know I've been chasing almost terminal front end 'pointiness' and oversteer for a while. Well today I found that the first line of every setup sheet ever is correct - if you have the right tyres you are 90% of the way there. Rather -mindedly I want 2" wheels on this. I know it's got lots of modern bits on it, but it IS a vintage buggy and now I have these lovely Egress lightweight wheels I REALLY want to use them. Hence using CAT Blocks in 2". They are stupidly grippy on the front, to the point where I have trimmed rows of knobs off them. Rears still looked in decent nick, but if the definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result, I hope I'm not (too) mad so I thought a change might be in order. Schumacher have just released a 2" version of the MiniSpike so I got a rear set and they arrived today. And do you know what? They immediately stuck the back of the car to the grass. The handling wasn't much understeer, just really nice and neutral. Great! I even dropped the front spring stiffness down to a TRF501 Blue (hard) spring which is softer than the softest DF03 spring. Really crisp turning in, no grip rolling. Think I'm onto something! Also means I don't have to design and buy another front shock mount!!! 

Additional annoyance is that the TBLE02S seems to be cutting out after a couple of minutes running on grass now I'm using the 13.5 motor (was 17.5). Bit miffed really as the same ESC and motor ran 8.4 faultlessly in my DT03 with truck wheels. Thinking another ESC is on the cards, which wasn't in the plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been a while since I've posted on this! I have been tinkering loads with the Thunder Dragon though, to get it to handle how I want. Also upgraded the electronics to a Hobbywing 120A ESC as the weight and 4WD clearly were putting the Tamiya ESC over the limit for what it could do. Also, due to the 13.5R/3300kV motor being moved to the DT03 along with the Tamiya ESC as that's been retired to 'lend and occasional running' duties, the Thunder Dragon has ended up with a Speed Passion 10.5R MMM/4000kV motor in it. In all honesty, in combination with the 120A ESC it's a bit much for the old thing and I'm not spending a lot of time of full throttle, and the ESC settings are dialed right back, but it does fly when you open it up! 

I've been back to the track since the last post and it was still really edgy and hard to drive. Having read up some more I suspect the upright shock, low droop setup on my own design front shock tower (I designed and had one made at Shapeways to clear the twin CVA shocks outside the Thunder Dragon body) is to blame. The rear was also still running fairly stiff (DF03 gold) and high ride height rear. Getting a lot of oversteer and grip rolling so had to back off and drive really slowly though the corners. I use this setup guide:

http://www.rcscrapyard.net/uk/tips.html

It says to reduce over keen steering I need to soften the rear. Also, according to this Petitrc setup guide, having much more upright shocks on the front also increases steering:

http://site.petitrc.com/reglages/BuggySetupGuide.pdf
A few weeks ago I checked the Thunder Dragon manual and the CVA twin shock goes into 3rd hole in arms on original shock narrow mount. I rebuilt the front end like this and needed stiff DF03 springs (up front soft TRF501 springs before, about 40% stiffer) to get anywhere near enough support. Found the original springs and they are even stiffer! Didn't try these. Setup gives fairly low front ride height but with loads of droop. Guess nearly 50% shock stroke with weight settled on the buggy. Compared to just a few mm of droop for a similar ride height with soft 501 springs on my front shock mount.

Rear shocks were travel limited with yellow spacer and two o rings to around 82mm length. Same length as hi cap shown on Terra Scorcher hop up guide. Used Schumacher blue or grey springs I had in the spares as they are short enough to not over preload the spring with the shorter stroke shock. Car ran well with good balance, but lack of droop at the rear was shown up as rear inside wheel would lift up. Initially I thought this meant I needed more droop at the rear so i rebuilt the shocks at 87mm (still with an o ring in them). This should have been 85mm so clearly the TRF501 piston rod I use to ditch the solid platform pistons from the DT03 CVA shock kit is a couple of mm longer than the plain ones. Ran a whole pack through it at the park. Dry, short, fast grass. This hot summer has given amazing grass running conditions! Buggy had much more heave and roll and really obvious lifting of the front of the car under acceleration. The handling balance was better though, less oversteery, however it was easier to grip roll and wasn't an improvement.

Read about droop on the Buggy Setup Guide last night and said big differences in droop front to rear cause issues. I think I have seen both ends of this. With my mount it makes the front too aggressive with upright shocks and little droop. I think the rear inside wheel picking up at my first test of this setup was because of how much droop and roll the lay down shocks at the front gave, which makes sense to me.

http://www.rcscrapyard.net/uk/droop.htm

It also says that more droop at the rear compared to the front gives more steering, so that's a third element of my first setup that was giving more steering. So, it's no wonder my first setup was very twitchy at the rear. It was all giving lots of extra steering into the handing!

Last week I decided to try a completely different tack. Front end rebuilt with the kit, narrow mount but 70mm shocks reaching to the 4th position. This lays the shock down even more and still gives a lot of droop but compared to the 3rd hole it needs a much lighter spring due to the lower leverage the arm has. Down to TRF501 yellow.

At the rear I have put the Ultra G rear end on.

20180714_140644

It works great on that car and with the 96mm CVA shock placed in the original Thunder Dragon kit high, narrow shock position. It was originally intended for the long discontinued Long Shocks (105mm long). Droop is good but not ridiculous and ride height drops to a nice height. With the super stiff Losi truck springs it's about right for the 8.4v pack but probably need the silver or gold DF03 springs for Lipo.

Today I finally had a chance to do lots of tinkering and testing. I ran the setup described above (original narrow shock towers, 70mm long shocks at the front on the 4th hole, 96mm long shocks on tall narrow position rear). Still had a lot of front droop, but was more balanced front to rear. It definitely worked, but it was still moving around too much at the front. I brought along the front shocks off my DT03. They're idental to the Thunder Dragon CVAs apart from having a 3mm internal spacer in them to limit droop. I swapped them and immediately found the handling better and more balanced. I had also brought my Terra Scorcher rear shock mount with freshly rebuilt rear shocks at 80mm length (one large CVa spacer plus 1 o ring in each). Again with the fairly soft Schumacher blue springs. This with the 67mm front shocks was pretty **** good. Corner speed was good without tipping the car over, but the rear was a little low and bottoming out a bit. A preload spacer did help. So, getting somewhere! I definitely need the front shocks laid over more than the rears, and I need to limit the droop at the front. Rear needs fairly short shocks and quite low ride height. This did leave me a slightly problem in that the whole point of doing my own shock mount was because the original narrow front mount with twin shocks really doesn't fit the Thunder Dragon! 

Tinkering again back at home, putting the rear shocks back to 82mm long by removing the internal o ring, I had a bit of a thought, and came up with this:

20180811_191058

I noticed look at my modern buggies that the shocks mount a lot wider (partly because they have longer arms than my Dragon), so I thought if I could get the shock mounted wider, I could still get my shock mount on with the shocks angled nicely, and with the wider stance get more support in roll at the front, which will push more grip to the rear. I measure the ride height before I took it apart, switched to my shock mount, 70mm shocks and attached the end of the shocks to the c-hub pivot shaft. I did this by replacing the screwpin with an M3 x 35 screw. I screwed a flange nut down lightly against the arm so there was still free movement of the pivot, but no fore-aft slop. Added a 2.5mm spacer and then topped it off with a ball screw, tightened against the flange nut so it doesn't clamp the pivot. Works a treat! The wider stance needs an even softer spring (TRF501 soft/red) and the ride height is pretty much identical to the setup I liked earlier. The rear is rebuilt too with 82mm shocks and some spacers so the arms sit about parallel with the ground at right height:

20180811_191124

It doesn't have much ground clearance anymore (right height rear is about 20mm, front is less because of the bumper), but a quick razz around the garden shows this has a lot of potential. No grip rolls and no oversteer either. I think I might be getting there. Need some more open running and then I need to get back to the track, as that will be the real test. However, best of all is that I can fit my lovely orange shell properly again!

20180811_191025

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been running over the last couple of weeks and still getting loads of grip roll and generally not very settled behaviour. Tried a few things.....

Firstly I ran with 2,2" Cut Stagger Rib front tyres to see if was the (already heavily trimmed) CAT Blocks causing trouble. Well, it definitely helped. It was much mellower into turns. I thought this would be the end for running my lovely Egress Lightweight 2" wheels, but with nothing to lose I really heavily trimmed the CAT Block fronts down, to similar height of the cut staggers. And it worked! Much mellower turn in as well, but on my lovely wheels. 

On Sunday the whole family were away and I spent a couple of hours in a field near my house with a pile of parts. After chatting with some people on here and trying it out, it seems that 1 hole pistons are the go to option for CVA shocks. The thread is here if you're interested.

Big thing I did Sunday was finally ditch the front one way. It was a lot of fun in lower grip conditions over the winter, but as soon as it's dry or I'm running at the track it just makes it too tricky to drive. Back to the open front diff and a much more calm turn in and slightly more understeer. I was still having trouble getting the rear right though. I tried the original kit uprights, different length camber links, all sorts!

In the end I went back to the original narrow shock mount as mentioned above, but with the shock damping matched to the Thunder Dragon (it's much lighter on the Ultra G shocks I borrowed in the last post). And it made all the difference. There's more droop, but a similar low-ish ride height, but way more grip and progression to the handling. Really, really happy with it now. Full old school at the back....

20180819_164550

Full length CVA (stock is 94mm. These have TRF501 piston rods which makes them about 96mm), DF03 setting spring (53927) silver stiff springs. Ended up taking out the preload spacers. 1 hole pistons. 500cst Core RC oil. Rear uprights are my design 3 deg toe in, with the shortest camber link and about 3 deg of camber.

With the rear getting planted and the front diff taking the edge out of the handling, I could soften off the front suspension too.

20180819_164626

You can see how much I've cut down the CAT Blocks. After playing around with different towers again I've stuck with my wide shock tower to clear the body with the wide stance shock fixing the lower eyelet to the c hub pivot as mentioned in the last post. 70mm shock length, 1 hole pistons, 600cst Core RC oil, TRF501 red soft springs. The c hubs are my design 10 deg caster hubs. I tried putting the kit c hubs back on and got grip roll city! So twitchy on turn in compared to mine with a bit of caster. The uprights are DF03 units, with the steering ball in the rearwards hole on the arms to maximise the ackermann. I also put the ball end up to a high hole on the servo saver to soften the steering response as I still use AM radios so I can't tune it with EPA or things like that. I was still getting full steering lock. 

Here's a gratuitous 'i love my buggy' shot:

20180819_164641

If you're running a Thundershot series chassis I would highly recommend you look at trying this rear suspension set up. Can't wait to get it back to the track next month.

Cheers,

Cy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad you got the setup you want Cy! Feel like I've been through it with you :D This thread gives me plenty to think about when I decide I want to have a play with mine. For now I have an old pair of original tyres that have gone slick. Great fun getting the back end out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now