Another Neo Scorcher build

[Macinnis 226]

12 minutes ago, Rb4276 said:

Keep an 

Keep an eye on the aluminum steering. I have 1 screw that constantly comes loose after driving. Mine is always the right side with the bearing. 

I used blue thread lock on everything metal to metal. 

[Rb4276 803]

59 minutes ago, Macinnis said:

I used blue thread lock on everything metal to metal. 

I do and did for this and it did not work lol

[Macinnis 226]

Stock tires, it looks like about 20mm clearance.  I have everything installed except the receiver as its on order. It's all Tamiya except the ER universals at this point.  Just for kicks, I put the 130mm WT-01 street tires on.  TT-02M? for MONSTER TRUCK!  I think it looks like the bat mobile. 45mm clearance WOOT!  I would be afraid to run this combo too long with the current gears.  Might have to do a speed run just once tho.  I have the 68t Spur and 20t pinion which is 8.84:1.  I know that's high geared but is it too high?  I'm going to have to do a lot of research on gearing and tire size to fully understand it all.  When the YR motor mount comes in, it offers a huge variety of gearing options.  Must paint soon......

[Macinnis 226]

This came in the mail today. Anyone have experience with these?  Just wondering what your experience was with how snug the pinion should be to the spur.  

[TwistedxSlayer 1290]

Not got experience with that mount. But have used adjustable mounts before. I push it ALL the way into mesh so its tight and then back it off until there is about 0.5mm clearence and the bind has gone away and it rotates smoothly.

[TurnipJF 9192]

I use the paper method for setting the mesh on my F103. It works well.

 

Feed a strip of paper between the pinion and spur, then push the two together and snug down the motor bolts. Remove the paper, and the tiny gap left by the paper is enough to ensure no binding. 

[Macinnis 226]

The next step arrived today.  I wish tamiya used the open ball ends instead of the round closed type.  I bought the pliers to make them easier to remove.

[TurnipJF 9192]

46 minutes ago, Macinnis said:

The next step arrived today.  I wish tamiya used the open ball ends instead of the round closed type.  I bought the pliers to make them easier to remove.

 

Being turnbuckles though, once clipped on you shouldn't have to remove them, as they can be adjusted in situ.

[Rb4276 803]

Try tamiya  turnbuckle wrench  53602. I bought one off ebay shipped past year for $5

[Macinnis 226]

So it sounds like there are 3 different types of turnbuckle systems for the tt02/tt02b. The kit style from the MS that are blue and reportedly the weakest, the black rods that are included with the carbon dampers which are not adjustable once installed, and the brushed steel that are part of the hop up 54539.  I did not realize that the hop ups are reverse threaded in one side and come with a wrench to tighten and loosen them.  

[Jason1145 3986]

In a nutshell guys what do you use the adjustable turnbuckles for? If the wheels are pointing in ( toe in) how does it differ from if you adjust them to pointing out ( toe out)? I'd have thought straight ahead is the way to go. Is that the main reason, to get them straight when at rest? 

I know on some of my cars when you lift them the wheels are straight but when on the ground they can angle inwards and then they need adjusting so at rest they point straight.

[TurnipJF 9192]

3 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

In a nutshell guys what do you use the adjustable turnbuckles for? If the wheels are pointing in ( toe in) how does it differ from if you adjust them to pointing out ( toe out)? I'd have thought straight ahead is the way to go. Is that the main reason, to get them straight when at rest? 

I know on some of my cars when you lift them the wheels are straight but when on the ground they can angle inwards and then they need adjusting so at rest they point straight.

Basically, adjusting the toe angle adjusts how stable the car is in a straight line as opposed to how keen it is to turn into corners. I am still getting my head around it myself, but I am sure a more experienced racer will be along soon to explain in more detail.

[TurnipJF 9192]

4 hours ago, Macinnis said:

So it sounds like there are 3 different types of turnbuckle systems for the tt02/tt02b. The kit style from the MS that are blue and reportedly the weakest, the black rods that are included with the carbon dampers which are not adjustable once installed, and the brushed steel that are part of the hop up 54539.  I did not realize that the hop ups are reverse threaded in one side and come with a wrench to tighten and loosen them.  

Strictly speaking that makes two kinds of turnbuckle and an adjustable tierod. The reverse thread and in-situ adjustability is what differentiates a turnbuckle from a straightforward adjustable tierod.

[Darat76 265]

as @TurnipJF states, toe angle affects stability in a straight line, it also effects how the car handles when turning, 0 toe angle while moving is what your aiming for as a starting point, this makes the car as close to neutral in the steering as possible. Toe out while moving will push the front wide, promote under steer, and reduce the chances of traction rolling, toe in is the opposite, it will snap the front around, promote over steer, and increase the chances of traction rolling.

Toe out is needed on 4wd and fwd cars as the torque and drive from the wheels pulls everything forward, you'll need from 0.1 degrees to 5 degrees (or there abouts) when stationary and at full running weight to achieve 0 degree toe angle when moving.

Toe in is needed on rwd cars as resistance pulls the everything backwards when driving forwards, the same angle range applies for a starting point of toe neutral while moving.

after that you just adjust the angle to taste, and enjoy

if you want to get more in depth, camber angle (upper link/arm adjustment) changes the way the wheels contact the ground while moving and turning, negative camber pulls the top of the tyre in, positive camber pushes it out, both ways adjust the way a tyre makes contact with the ground while going straight, turning, or counter steering. caster angle (not always adjustable, and only pivot ball setups have limited on the fly adjustment) changes the speed that the wheels return to neutral when you let go of the steering (most 1:1 cars have very little if any adjustment here, mostly it's toe angle, with some camber angle adjust-ability), the amount of force fed back to the servo increases exponentially with the angle of the steering wheels relative to the caster angle.

toe and camber angle also affect the rear wheels, toe angle effects how the rear wheels direct the rear of the car, and in the case of rwd and 4wd how the drive pushes the car. Toe in creates a more stable car by making the wheels push into the chassis, toe out creates a less stable car by making the wheels pull away from the chassis, mismatched toe angles will make the car unstable as well as crab to the side that has either the lower toe in angle, or the higher toe out angle. Camber on the rear wheels increase the tyre contact patch of the wheel that the suspension has compressed due to steering forces.

 

It is best to get toe and camber angles as close to 0 when the car is moving and turning for a base line of handling, after that adjustments should be made to achieve the handling handling you wish to have, making adjustments should be done 1 angle at a time, so toe, or camber, or caster where applicable, and only at the front or the rear. As changing 1 angle effects the others, it is best when your starting out, to adjust 1 angle, see how the handling changes (taking notes of the changes is helpful here), put it back to what it was, and change the other angle, test it (more notes here), and put it back, rinse and repeat (with even more notes after each change) until you have tested changes on all the angles you can change both front and rear. After that it's a case of trial and error with adjustments (this is where the notes come in handy) until you find the sweet spot for your preference.

To keep adjustments even and true, it is best to have the car at full running weight (as the car is when your belting it down the road, across the back yard, or off the bmx table top jump), on a flat level (within reason, 1 degree angle over a meter or so is fine unless your hard core racing) with power one to the servo to keep it centered (I made this mistake and buy was my rwd sct a handful at the next club meet), the motor being disconnected is up to you, but to avoid the risk of sending it into the wall, out the window, into the 1:1 car (particularly yours or your significant others for obvious reasons), or the kids, or (most dangerously) the significant other, it's prolly best to ensure the esc can't send power to the motor if you accidentally nudge the throttle, or turn off the tx. After making any adjustment, it's a good idea to smoosh the suspension and fully turn the steering both ways a couple of times to get the car back to it's normal state. Not doing this can cause your car to have an angle difference of up to 10 degrees (normally in camber, but tiz possible with toe, been there done that).

 

Finally, if in doubt, ask the question, the most stupid question is the one not asked.

 

Addendum: Spell check was used on this wall of text, however, punctuation checker was told to take a hike....

[Macinnis 226]

Body is painted.  This is my first that is not box art.  The neo scorcher has a white set of decals that cover about 50% of the body. I was pretty happy with the paint color so I left those off. This is ps-15 metallic red with pearl white undercoat.  I still need to put in the motor mount and I currently have the 68t high speed gear installed and a 20t pinion, which the instruction manual specifically says not to use.  I need to learn more about gearing. 

[Darat76 265]

the manual says that due to the tt02 being an onroad chassis to start with, and putting the gearing that high will cook motors and esc's that tamiya expects to see in the chassis, heat sink with a fan will help with this, but a standard sized 540 4 pole brushless motor will handle it, think the tt02 can take a 540L 4 pole brushless motor too, which will be more than up to the task of moving the car at stupid speeds without added cooling

[Rb4276 803]

1 hour ago, Darat76 said:

the manual says that due to the tt02 being an onroad chassis to start with, and putting the gearing that high will cook motors and esc's that tamiya expects to see in the chassis, heat sink with a fan will help with this, but a standard sized 540 4 pole brushless motor will handle it, think the tt02 can take a 540L 4 pole brushless motor too, which will be more than up to the task of moving the car at stupid speeds without added cooling

Ive been running a 15t firebolt and now a yeah racing 13t motor with a 23 or 24t pinion and the high speed gearing with a 64t spur with no issues. I do have the tamiya heatsink and recently replaced that with a fan but dont think it works to well. 

[Macinnis 226]

I did the 1 foot drop test with the neo scorcher with the factory plastic cva shocks and it bottomed out on the floor.  Suggestions? 

[Effigy3 1267]

16 hours ago, Macinnis said:

I did the 1 foot drop test with the neo scorcher with the factory plastic cva shocks and it bottomed out on the floor.  Suggestions? 

Maybe don't drop it from so high up?

[Macinnis 226]

22 minutes ago, Effigy3 said:

Maybe don't drop it from so high up?

LoL It's going to fall a lot farther than that when I'm done.  I started making some rubber bushings to limit shock travel.  Gonna see how that goes first. 

[TurnipJF 9192]

It is my (possibly incorrect) understanding that having the car bottom out before the shocks run out of travel is a good thing, as this places less stress on the shock towers which might otherwise break.

 

Wouldn't it be better to slow the shocks with thicker oil and fewer/smaller piston holes rather than limiting their travel with rubber bushings?

[ThunderDragonCy 7886]

2 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

It is my (possibly incorrect) understanding that having the car bottom out before the shocks run out of travel is a good thing, as this places less stress on the shock towers which might otherwise break.

 

Wouldn't it be better to slow the shocks with thicker oil and fewer/smaller piston holes rather than limiting their travel with rubber bushings?

This has been my experience with the dt03. More damping and stronger springs at the heavy rear to stop excessive bottoming but I actually took the shock travel limiters out because they were causing it to grip roll on grass a bit easily.

[Effigy3 1267]

You definitely would prefer a belly slap to snapping your shock towers or blowing your dampers apart due to excessive pack.  If the shocks stop moving before full travel they could blow, taking the caps right off.  If the shock travel is shortened via spacers before the belly hits, the top of the shock towers will get ripped off.  The best is to set up the shocks with dampening and spring rates that they can absorb the shock of landing without packing to a stop or belly slapping.  Heavier oil and/or springs is where you tune from here.

[Macinnis 226]

This is how I spaced it out.  Inside the spring.  Is that not recommended?

[Pumpkin2 2]

26 minutes ago, Macinnis said:

This is how I spaced it out.  Inside the spring.  Is that not recommended?

I think that's too much. Very limiting to suspesion travel. I'd do what was suggested and get use a higher oil while Using the stiffest tension rings for the springs... or upgrade the shocks.

I like your build so far! I'm building one too and we've chosen a similar color scheme (see pic).

I've run stock (except for bearings) and have a few upgrades planned. I'm in the US (NYC area) and parts are hard to come by. Still waiting on quite a few things. Any recommendations for hop-up parts with reasonable shipping to the US?

So far I've put a Tamiya Sport-Tuned in.

Waiting on:

Dual Block Tires and Large Dish wheels

YR Alloy center saft (red)

YR steel center shaft joints

YR steel gear box joints

YR universal shafts

New spoiler (oops)

I Plan on doing a full turnbuckle set, alloy steering (red) and maybe alloy arms, knuckles and c-hubs (black).

: )