MIP Hotshot Ball Diff Talks - Data Collection

[matman 1499]

Thanks Pintopower , I will start putting money away for this now . WOOHOO!!  

[Ann3x 220]

If MIP want a real challenge try a slipper for DF-01.

• TONS of cars compatible (DF-01 Mantaray, Topforce, Terra Conq etc etc etc, TA01, TA02 etc) so v big potential market
• Solid base car with only minor flaws (even in modern context)
• No way at all to fit a slipper in stock mode and Tamiya have given up on upgrades beyond basics

I've actually spent some time prototyping one over last 6m and it's tight but it is possible space wise - just needs knowledge of machining and plastics to select the right materials.

[Yonez 180]

This is getting me excited again. 

Maybe I should build up a Super Hot Shot as a 2017 racing machine with ball diffs, alu shocks, modern wheels, CVD´s etc.

Would look cool next to the vintage ones as a reimagining og what it could be today.

 

Count me, if not in, then at least intrigued. If the price is right I might jump after all.

[vroma 0]

Hi all,

No news is bad news.

Pintopower, how is the HS diff development progressing?

The popularity of the rare Thorp 4550 diff is proof that MIP will benefit from creating a diff for the HS family.

A few months ago I telephoned MIP to see whether their 16210 ball diff would fit the HS. If the tech replied yes, I'd buy enough for 14 Hot Shots, plus 2 for the Fox (assuming they are interchangeable like the Thorp 4550). The tech said a number of people asked the same question and have bought the 16210 for their HS but he/MIP never received feedback on how the diff performed. Considering Thorp made the 4550 that fit the Hot Shot, Blackfoot, Monster Beetle, MudBlaster and seemingly the Fox too, do you (does anyone) know whether the 16210 is a straight fit (or moderately adaptable) for the HS?

Does anyone have experience/knowledge of fitting the 16210 to the HS?
How long before MIP release a ball diff for the HS?

[frameskip 63]

3 hours ago, vroma said:

Does anyone have experience/knowledge of fitting the 16210 to the HS?

I don't think the MIP part will work in the Hotshot as it has a different tooth count than the HS diff. AFAIK Thorp was able to use the same diff between the ORV and HS cars by requiring a different counter gear in the ORV (which are quite expensive now). Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm off here. 

Would love an update on the MIP Hotshot diff myself. Money is standing by...!

[nowinaminute 2815]

On 4/27/2017 at 9:48 PM, Pintopower said:

Or, if there is a car with a catastrophic problem are *cough - king cab * and the volume we need

Let's hope Tamiya re-release it with no alterations lol

[Pintopower 1456]

On 8/9/2017 at 11:00 AM, vroma said:

Hi all,

No news is bad news.

Pintopower, how is the HS diff development progressing?

The popularity of the rare Thorp 4550 diff is proof that MIP will benefit from creating a diff for the HS family.

A few months ago I telephoned MIP to see whether their 16210 ball diff would fit the HS. If the tech replied yes, I'd buy enough for 14 Hot Shots, plus 2 for the Fox (assuming they are interchangeable like the Thorp 4550). The tech said a number of people asked the same question and have bought the 16210 for their HS but he/MIP never received feedback on how the diff performed. Considering Thorp made the 4550 that fit the Hot Shot, Blackfoot, Monster Beetle, MudBlaster and seemingly the Fox too, do you (does anyone) know whether the 16210 is a straight fit (or moderately adaptable) for the HS?

Does anyone have experience/knowledge of fitting the 16210 to the HS?
How long before MIP release a ball diff for the HS?

So right now, the cars are at MIP and a diff is being designed to fit the HS family. This is still in the prototyping phase. I will keep you all posted. 

[vroma 0]

Good to know.

Thanks, Pintopower!

[Pintopower 1456]

More updates here. Cars are taken apart and designs are started. Looks like other cars like the FAV will also be able to leverage this diff. 

[matman 1499]

Well i'm hoping that , they make it like the diff that is in it , but a ball diff of course . 

So the bevel & spider gears are replaced with ball setup & the diff gear holds the balls , then

all we need to do other cars is make the diff gear . We can use the out drives that came with car .

If you can see what i'm seeing , Sorry not to great at explainging things . 

So if we put the bevel & spiders gears in the diff gear so it's together as we all know & Make / build 

a ball diff , so it's the same as what we can see there , except it's running balls .

As the diff gear , had 3 sizes to fit , Fav , W'one , blackfoot etc & of course , Hotshot etc

cars .  So the bevel & spider gear are the same in all the cars above , the diff gear is a tooth

or so different . Could it be made so it can be used on other cars & all it's needed is the diff gear

to be made to fit WO , Fav , ( BL , MB < yes i know we have balldiff for this ) & the HS , Boomer , BW etc .

 

[Pintopower 1456]

I wanted to let all the Hotshot owners in on the MIP ball diff update. MIP has the design completed for the Hotshot Ball diff! Here is where we are tentatively. 

 

1. This will be moving forward with the presales campaign just like the ORV unit did.

2. The presales campaign will be discounted and include BOTH diffs for the Hotshot

3. The trans case will need a modification to work due to simplification of the diff. Without the mod, the diff cost would have been many times more than the projected cost.

4. Cost not finalized but will include the tools needed to make the modification

5. The is be focusing on the Rerelease version

6. The diff itself is compatible with all cars that use the HS diff but it is unknown what would be needed on a car like the Bigwig

7. This will not be sold through a distributor

8. Presales are planned to start the week before xmas and units are scheduled for shipment in mid February 2018 (recall that the orv units shipped early)

 

Cars that this should fit in are here (note that rere axles are different and therefore the cars will need updated units to work):

58047: Hotshot 

58054: Super Shot

58055: The Boomerang

58057: The Bigwig

58062: Hotshot II

58066: Super Sabre

58391: Hotshot 

58418: The Boomerang

57330: The Bigwig

 

We are using a rere and an original HS for these builds. Should you have a concern or feel there is an error with any statements I have said, it is critical that you let me know.

Please remember that these parts are designed, engineered, manufactured and mailed form Southern California. These are not trash parts. MIP is the last RC Car manufacturer that makes products in the USA.

 

This is what I need from you all. If you want this to come to fruition, I need everyone to splatter this information all over the web. Every forum, every FB page and every Instagram post. Remember, if you speak a different language, translate this! This is how we got the ORV diff into production.

In order to build this, MIP will need 250 orders in their presales campaign. You will need to pay for the units as before and when we hit 250, you will get yours as soon as production starts and units are completed. If this is a success, MIP is looking at other parts for the ORV (like telescopic driveshafts) and machined arms for the Hotshots. The only reason MIP is moving forward with this is the fact that the Blackfoot Diff was a massive hit. If we fail here, say good bye to anything else from MIP.

 

Remember, 250 units and we get some ball diffs for the Hotshot Line!

 

Like before, this will not succeed without you all. I will i keep you updated as I get more info. 

[Biz73 603]

20 minutes ago, Pintopower said:

Please remember that these parts are designed, engineered, manufactured and mailed form Southern California. These are not trash parts. MIP is the last RC Car manufacturer that makes products in the USA.

 

 

Pro-line is also made in the USA.

[tamiya3speed 463]

Do I need to buy universals for this to work?

Also...I'm in.  Thanks again Pinto!

[matman 1499]

Carn't wait .  Been wanting these for some time now woohoo .

[Pintopower 1456]

23 hours ago, Biz73 said:

Pro-line is also made in the USA.

True. 

 

20 hours ago, tamiya3speed said:

Do I need to buy universals for this to work?

Also...I'm in.  Thanks again Pinto!

Yes you will. No problem. 

 

17 hours ago, matman said:

Carn't wait .  Been wanting these for some time now woohoo .

I will tell you that so far, the response to this has been barely lukewarm. I am really worried about this one so we need to get the word out. This is seriously something that needs to be on the HOMEPAGE of the forum 'because, ya know, it's kinna something huge for the vintage community but I digress, this is why I have youtube. 

[Nobbi1977 1793]

Press release sent to all RC publications? 3D images of the “product” also help people visualise it. 

Not got a car it would fit my self but still want projects like this to get off the ground. 

[Crash Cramer 617]

With as much luck as we had with the ORV, let’s hope we launch this with success. Also, the list could include the Super HotShot for fitment. I think I can do with limited skills an IG post, so I guess I better get on that. I know I am in for a pair of cars to have this setup.

[Pintopower 1456]

On 12/9/2017 at 11:25 PM, Nobbi1977 said:

Press release sent to all RC publications? 3D images of the “product” also help people visualise it. 

Not got a car it would fit my self but still want projects like this to get off the ground. 

Yeah they have been doing that but most of them could care less about a 30 year old RC car. I will post images as soon as I get them.

 

On 12/10/2017 at 9:20 AM, Crash Cramer said:

With as much luck as we had with the ORV, let’s hope we launch this with success. Also, the list could include the Super HotShot for fitment. I think I can do with limited skills an IG post, so I guess I better get on that. I know I am in for a pair of cars to have this setup.

Oh so it would work in the S. HS with some mods by the end user?

[Crash Cramer 617]

The Super HotShot is the same gear sprue  “G”, so by all accounts it ought to work

[Badcrumble 4201]

On 09/12/2017 at 12:19 AM, Pintopower said:

3 The trans case will need a modification to work due to simplification of the diff. Without the mod, the diff cost would have been many times more than the projected cost.

Pinto, could this be a reason why some people might hold back? Is a lot of modification required, could more detail be provided on this point? 

I missed out on the ORV diff when it came out (didn't have an ORV back then) but the old Hot Shot I have ready for a refurb is waiting for this.

I just need to work out whether mine is vintage or re re...

[matman 1499]

The ball diff , will fit the super hotshot , Boomerang & hotshot & it's vintage models . As it's all the same .

Even the super sabre & hotshot 2 . Most of vintage runners , would ( Should ) Have the rere G parts ?. 

Si it's won't matter if you mod the gear case .  As i would have changed it to the re re gear case , As it's 

better , Newer etc . If your running a vintage , you would change the arms , gear box to newer plastics . 

So the ball diff would fit 4wd hotshot series , re re or vintage .

Would have been good if it didn't neeed to mod , the gearbox . Would have been better if it

was the same size as the standard diff & we used our own out drives ?. I did try to explain this

in above post some time ago . As that would help with cost & you could change the gear and

that would allow you to put it into different cars etc . 

But it's all good , as you would put this into a runner anyway , most have modded it to run

better , so a small mod won't hert . 

[Pintopower 1456]

On 12/11/2017 at 3:08 PM, Badcrumble said:

Pinto, could this be a reason why some people might hold back? Is a lot of modification required, could more detail be provided on this point? 

I missed out on the ORV diff when it came out (didn't have an ORV back then) but the old Hot Shot I have ready for a refurb is waiting for this.

I just need to work out whether mine is vintage or re re...

The mod is needed if the price point were to be acceptable. Without the modification which sadly, I cannot go into detail at this point, the cost would have been at least double, the assembly more complex and overall not economically feasible. 

On 12/11/2017 at 4:59 PM, matman said:

The ball diff , will fit the super hotshot , Boomerang & hotshot & it's vintage models . As it's all the same .

Even the super sabre & hotshot 2 . Most of vintage runners , would ( Should ) Have the rere G parts ?. 

Si it's won't matter if you mod the gear case .  As i would have changed it to the re re gear case , As it's 

better , Newer etc . If your running a vintage , you would change the arms , gear box to newer plastics . 

So the ball diff would fit 4wd hotshot series , re re or vintage .

Would have been good if it didn't neeed to mod , the gearbox . Would have been better if it

was the same size as the standard diff & we used our own out drives ?. I did try to explain this

in above post some time ago . As that would help with cost & you could change the gear and

that would allow you to put it into different cars etc . 

But it's all good , as you would put this into a runner anyway , most have modded it to run

better , so a small mod won't hert . 

As I mentioned above, it was a cost factor. They agree that no mod is best but without it, cost would skyrocket. We thought about using the stock out drives but that would further have increased the cost of the diff. We are talking about a diff set with small projected build quantity. We need to focus on the fact that not many of these cars are being built up with respect to the other cars MIP builds parts for. Many of the other diffs they make will sell 20-40 thousand units. Here we are talking about 250 sets so at this point we need to look at having a top notch product that requires a little mod to the gear box AND will come with the tool to make the mod. I want to tell you all more so bad but I cannot at this time. Please guys, we need to spread the word. Trust me, if this goes to market, you have no idea what they have planned for the Blackfoot...

Sure would be nice to have this on the splash page but I have said that before...

[Badcrumble 4201]

8 minutes ago, Pintopower said:

... requires a little mod to the gear box AND will come with the tool to make the mod. ..

Appreciate that you can't say much but that is of help to a mechanical numpty like myself. Thank you.

[Pintopower 1456]

Just got off the line with MIP. Press release goes out soon. Can you all confirm this car list:

 

Without getting new axles:

 

58391: Hotshot 

58418: The Boomerang

57330: The Bigwig

And then these with new axles from the RERE hotshot:

58047: Hotshot 

58054: Super Shot

58055: The Boomerang

58057: The Bigwig

58062: Hotshot II

58066: Super Sabre

[Crash Cramer 617]

I do NOT want to be a fly in the ointment here on this list, but here is my two cents worth. According to my old MRC parts purchasing guide, ALL these VINTAGE models used the exact same G parts tree, the GEARBOX tree:

58047 HotShot

58054 SuperShot

58055 Boomerang

58057 BigWig

58062 HotShot II

58066 Super Sabre

 

With that being said, we all know some of the woes and issues that happened when first these gear box trees were REISSUED, there was something going on with the use of the OLD INTERNALS in the new boxes, something perhaps akin to the issue of using the tiny old C clips where the reissues were using LARGER E clips to hold the output shafts onto the gearbox.

NOW, since this ball diff will REQUIRE modification, you would need to be a bit mad or daft to go and hack up a vintage G tree when a re re model G tree can easily be had, PLUS the obvious stated fact that you ALSO NEED the dogbones from the RE RE cars to mate up to this ball diff, so it is only making more sense that this mod is to be entertained with folks that have put RE RE parts to use on their running cars.

 

Moving forward from that, it is my opinion that since the G tree is the shared part to make this MIP diff work, I would say that ANY CAR using the G tree from the RE RE HotShot and other cars forward would be obvious choices to receive the upgrade and with the knowledge that you WILL have to make modifications. I personally look forward to taking this project on when I get one or two sets, and at the suggested price point for 2, yes TWO ball diffs, I will be a happy camper.

 

Since some folks may not pay attention to Tamiya's unique way of slightly renaming their reissued cars, of course all here reading are allowed to lump on the kit numbers and names of the cars they have found use the same G tree part, but I will attempt to fill in the names only as I can't be spending more time digging up the part numbers past the original 100( wink wink, lol)

58391 HotShot

58418 Boomerang

58517 Super HotShot

84265 HotShot 2007(metallic special)

47330  BigWig 2017

 

I think a person ought to know there is to be a little bit of fettling to get the perfect set up with toe in, toe out, bump steer, camber, etc when installing these into the front gearbox of these cars as they all have a little bit different behavior amongst them, but with some luck, it won't be enough fettling to want to pull ones hair out.

 

Hope I helped shine a little more light on where these ball diffs can be applied and on a small side note, I REALLY really hope that MIP squashes future plans on the Blackfoot line based solely on the outcome of this order on the HotShot series car because I think there is a bit of a difference between the popularity of these two vehicles and there has ALWAYS been a different amount of popularity between TWO DIFFERENT style of vehicles produced originally around the same time. Back in the 80's I would say price alone made up the popularity difference and well, lets face it, folks like trucks that they can run around in their yard that they just might see in real life, so the Ford truck would have many more fans than a semi fictional dune buggy that one wouldn't see on the streets and maybe not even on TV.

Rant over. LOL