Kyosho monster truck?

[Saito2]

I have a chance to buy a Kyosho USA-1 for a reasonable price this weekend. I haven't seen one of these up close in many years. My memory is that it was pretty much junk with plastic drive shafts, etc. Should I consider buying it as a light runner or run the other direction? I'm guessing parts are hard to come by if anything breaks. Any thoughts? Thanks.

[Buggyjam]

For USA-1 stuff check out "risky concepts rc" on YouTube. he's an expert on restoring these and all things USA-1.

 

I'm quite interested in the USA-1 as it was a poorer clod rival but the lack of new spares puts me off. 

[mongoose1983]

I remember I was pretty much turned off by the USA-1 because of how it looks. The independent suspension back then was important when running a truck, but the truck itself was not as scale as the Clod Buster. And yes, it's true. The lack of new spares is something to keep in mind if buying one, although these trucks share many parts with the other monster trucks Kyosho offered back in the 80's: Big Brute, Double Dare, Hi Rider, and Big Boss.

The side by side comparison made by RCCA in California back in 1991 I think stated the USA-1 was a better runner. There must be some pdf file so you can have a look at the article. Still, had I have to choose between the Clod Buster and the USA-1 I know I'd go for the Clod. In a perfect world I would have both, haha.

[mongoose1983]

Here's the magazine. It's from 1995 I was wrong. You can download it here: https://archive.org/stream/Radio_Control_Car_Action_Magazine_1995-10#page/n0/mode/2up

And some USA-1 pictures:

Detail:

Just last year I added a Kyosho Hi Rider example to my collection. I'm thinking a USA-1 now would not hurt

[Saito2]

Thanks for posting that. I remember those articles now. RCCA took a long time to put together the Clod vs USA1 shootout. The last pic is a sidebar excerpt from RCCA's  2nd big monster truck shootout. I never knew Kyosho/Great Planes used it in an ad. I saved for years to buy one of these trucks as a kid but ultimately, and fortunately bought a Bullhead. I vaguely remember seeing a Kyosho truck after that and thinking it was nowhere near as nice as their buggies (Ulitma, Optima, etc.) Now I have the chance to see what that other choice was like.

The truck in question need body work but is supposedly mechanically fine. Its a long drive for me to get it and I'm just wondering if my money would be spend better elsewhere. If one of those old brittle plastic parts breaks, the truck could be done for. Nowadays, I have 3 Clods, 2 Bulls, a TXT1 and TXT2. I guess I went overboard.

[mongoose1983]

Bullhead. That would have been my choice had I have the money to pay the humungous sum they asked for back in the day in our LHS. They showcased all three together, Bullhead, Clod Buster and USA-1. I was not a fan of the real USA-1 truck back then, and also it looked so odd and out of scale compared to anything Tamiya! Other than that, I agree with everything you say here, their design for Monster trucks is not at all as cool as what they did with their racing buggies! The chassis is as plastic as, say, the Blackfoot's but it has a toy feeling when you see/touch one. Just recently a buddy was checking the Hi Rider Corvette over my bench and was telling me he'd "never even look at it thinking it would be some toy car, like New Bright or Nikko, but now that I know the story I could see how cool it really is". That pretty much says how these things are. Nostalgia and historical perspective sure add a lot to the old Kyosho monster trucks (Also, when testing the drive-train of the Hi Rider I noticed how freaking clumsy it is, shaking like crazy! So I ordered a set of bearings to see if that changes a bit). And oh, you're right, now that it's possible for sure it's no sin to see for yourself what the other choice was like! haha.

If you get the truck, be sure to share a picture or two.

[Country Mike]

I'm a newb to this but what is kyosho's relationship to Tamiya?

[Buggyjam]

1 minute ago, Country Mike said:

I'm a newb to this but what is kyosho's relationship to Tamiya?

Sparring partners in the 80s 

[Saito2]

Well, I'm going to take a trip tomorrow to give the USA-1 a look. My Bullhead purchase back in the day was one of luck and timing. RC Car Action surmised that the Bullhead release was Tamiya's response to the USA-1 Clod challenger. The Double Dare had been swept aside years before but the USA-1 with proper size tires and greater suspension travel over the Clod seemed to pose a threat. The magazines raved about it when it was introduced.

Bullheads were actually pricier than Clods at first but quickly came down in price to match the Clod. I guess they didn't sell as well because one day I opened my newest issue of RC Car Action and Great Northern Hobbies had the Bullhead marked down to $199.99 at a time when all three trucks were around $250. I had just reached the $200 mark in my savings. At that age, coming up with $50 would have taken probably 9 more months of saving so I was ecstatic. In the end, both the Bullhead and the USA-1 fell by the wayside and the Clod Buster soldiered on as the most popular. Funny really. 

[Saito2]

Well, I got USA-1. I bought it home and immediately began tearing into it, curiosity getting the better of me. Not as bad as I thought in some places, worse in others. Stripping off the tires and wheels, I noticed how much smaller the chassis and running gear is compared to a Clod. Its almost Wild Dagger-like (which gives me ideas on what to do next to my Twin Detonator). 

You can see Kyosho did make some improvements over the Double Dare in the knuckle and suspension department. The driveshafts were plastic (as I remembered) and were twisted in the rear. They're not broke or too worn so hopefully they'll still work. The axles are Falcon-like, metal/plastic hybrid. But the outdrives, oh, the outdrives are 100% plastic. I can't believe Kyosho would run fully plastic out drives riding on steel bushings driving Clod-size tires. Unbelievable. Hopefully a bearing set will cut down on wear. I was ready to make it a shelf queen at that point. Fortunately I remembered some odd Kyosho spares I got mixed in with some Clod parts I bought years ago. Turns out, I have 4 spare outdrives which gives me the confidence to make it a light runner.

Overall, the A-1 could have been a nice truck but Kyosho cheaped-out on some key areas. It's not the tough brute the Clod Buster is, but its not all bad either. 

[WillyChang]

Yours is Electric? Think there was a nitro version too.

[Saito2]

Yes, mine is the electric version designed to compete with the Clod Buster.

[Buggyjam]

10 hours ago, WillyChang said:

Yours is Electric? Think there was a nitro version too.

I think that one was called nitro crusher from what I can gather.  Opinion seems it was an inferno essentially with truck wheels. Looks interesting though. I'm not a kyosho person, nerver owned one but would be curious to see the USA 1 even if it is cheap and nasty as it's interesting non the less.

[Saito2]

There seems to be more interest in the nitro version on the web during my research. The A-1 has been an interesting history lesson so far. A lot of magazines called it a "Clod Killer" and acted as though this truck was going to bring down the Clod forever. Those same magazines (who loved to sugar-coat things in the interest of the manufacturers/hobby in general) make no mention of twisting plastic driveshafts, fully plastic outdrives, the propensity for cracking chassis', etc. on the truck. I'm not a huge fan of independent suspension monster trucks of that size, but you can see the beginnings of a Maxx-style truck (or more closely, Dagger-style) in the design. The A-1 could have been built up to be quite the truck.

[Saito2]

Well, I finally got the truck reassembled and out for a run. Some things I noted as I went through the truck. The overall mechanics (chassis,etc.) seem much smaller than the Clod Buster. You can tell the Clod was built from the ground up for the tires it carries. The USA-1 is more of a gradual development up to a truck carrying its size of tire, from Big Brute to Double Dare and finally to A-1. The bushings got tossed for bearings. The counter gear shaft is very poorly supported on one end by a shallow hole in the gear box molding. I tightened up its sloppy, loose fit will a curled up bit of shim stock. The steering knuckles were tight (a known issue with these trucks) so I carefully clearanced them for smooth movement. The 11T pinions were so small I didn't feel I could get adequate gear mesh before the motor cans hit the gearbox. The Big Brute was originally designed for 15T. Kyosho dropped down to 13T for the Double Dare and 11T for the A-1. I stuck in some 13T pinions and took my chances. I had some tired generic 550 motors laying around that normally run 14.4v but put them in for a test drive while I tear down the Mega 360 motors for a rebuild (the original owner unfortunately had the reverse rotation motor in the wrong end of the truck.)

Running: I gave It a shot on 8.4v to give big 550s a little life and wow, this thing is quick. So hows it run compared to the Clod? Its all over the place like a Clod but in very different ways. The Clod bounds and bops around like an old school leaf spring monster from the 80's. The springy steering seems to steer mostly with the rear, but overall it has a solid familiar feel to me. The USA-1's tires stay planted. The independent suspension keeps things on the ground but braking and accelerating cause the truck to flop to and fro like a see-saw. Dive and squat. The 4WS actually works. The truck turns on a dime. However, there's a ton of slop in the system. You constantly have to counter steer just to get the truck to go back to straight again. If you don't concentrate, the truck quickly finds a wall. Overall, totally different than a Clod Buster and it reminds me why I like solid axles on trucks this big. My Bennett Clod would eat it for breakfast. I'm not sure how you could compete with one back in the day. Still, it was great fun! Its a nice counter to my Clod trucks and will definitely be kept a runner.

[mongoose1983]

Would you say the truck changed after you changed the bushings for bearings?

I hope you'll share some pictures of your USA-1 here in this thread

Have a good week!

[Saito2]

Yes. The gearboxes were noisy at first. They seemed to bind when the case halves were drawn up, like the bushings were too thick or something. With bearings, everything quieted down too Clod Buster-levels. I know, I've got to find the time to get pics up.