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Peter_B

Brushless motor cables

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Hi all, quick question about buying brushless motors. Pretty much all of the motors I've seen don't seem to have cables attached to them.

Question is, do they tend to come with the cables (loose in the box if not preattached)? Or are they something that needs to be bought separately?

If separate, what are the current types of connectors that are used to connect motor to ESC? Back in my day it was pretty much all the standard Tamiya type of connector.

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Most motors come without cables. The cables come on ESCs and you solder them onto the motor. I got cables with Tamiya plugs made up for my first motor by Modelsport  (which is also where I bought the motor). They do a service to do that. Cost about a tenner. 

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2 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Most motors come without cables. The cables come on ESCs and you solder them onto the motor. I got cables with Tamiya plugs made up for my first motor by Modelsport  (which is also where I bought the motor). They do a service to do that. Cost about a tenner. 

So is it common these days to have ESCs connected directly to motors with no connectors in between?

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18 minutes ago, Peter_B said:

So is it common these days to have ESCs connected directly to motors with no connectors in between?

It would seem so.

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Oh well I think I'd go old school and use the tried and tested bullet connectors. Unless they're not up to the job of handling brushless and (future LiPo).

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I have bullet connectors to the tamiya esc on my 13.5t/3300kv setup. Works fine. No idea if it's up to lipo but I'm sticking with Nimh. 

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I think it's assumed that the motor/esc combo will be just used for the one vehicle, so if you are soldering wires onto the motor anyway and esc's and motors are labelled ABC (for rotation and if you swap over you can seemingly fry an esc), there's no need for connections.

I run 4mm castle gold bullets on my castle setup and that's leading the 4wd fastest tamiya on here 😁

Speed passion motors look to be soldered, but have connections that plug into the motor, but you need to solder onto those connections! 

 

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I just use standard bullets that fit into the plugs that came on the tamiya esc. I run silvercans, 17.5T and 13.5T motors aith boost and turbo on the 13.5T with no problems.

I have seen people use deans t connectors for brushed motors, and i tried a 3 plug xt60 variant which worked but was too long and bulky, so won't use those again. I have got the one in the racecar which is just soldered, but that was really peer pressure since I saw everyone else do it that way so I copied them. Also that is set up for a class and won't change frequently.

The bullets I use are just the cheap packs from an autoparts store, although thats really because I needed them and that was the easiest way to get them. I placed an order with Banggood and for about NZD $60 i got loads of cable in 3 colours, xt60 connectors, solder, heat shrink etc. Would have cost about three times that much if bought locally.

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23 hours ago, Peter_B said:

Oh well I think I'd go old school and use the tried and tested bullet connectors. Unless they're not up to the job of handling brushless and (future LiPo).

I use 4mm bullets with 3300Kv brushless and 2s LiPo, without any problems at all... You'll be fine.. 👍

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If you run sensorless brushless I would highly recommend direct soldering with no connectors.  I have had two systems where I got erratic performance and cogging with gold bullet connectors.  As soon as I direct soldered they were both butter smooth as they should be.  I think the back-EMF signals that are used by the sensorless ESC to determine rotor position can get corrupted by noise or variable resistance on the motor wires, caused by connectors.  Sensored systems seem to care less about this.

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30 minutes ago, LongRat said:

If you run sensorless brushless I would highly recommend direct soldering with no connectors.  I have had two systems where I got erratic performance and cogging with gold bullet connectors.  As soon as I direct soldered they were both butter smooth as they should be.  I think the back-EMF signals that are used by the sensorless ESC to determine rotor position can get corrupted by noise or variable resistance on the motor wires, caused by connectors.  Sensored systems seem to care less about this.

+1 

I had very random performance issues on my brushless system and a lot of cogging, directly soldered the motor to the ESC and I've not seen an issue since :)

 

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If I go brushless it will likely be sensored as I'll be using the Tamiya ESC that comes with the kit.

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Wire directly or not wire directly, that is the question.

The answer to the question is mostly personal preference TBH.  From an electrical engineering perspective any connector used in a line will increase the resistance so theoretically direct wire is superior.  If you prefer to have a connector between the motor and the ESC for whatever reason make sure you use a high quality bullet connector of 3.5mm or 4mm and you should be fine.  I have used the 4mm Castle bullets and the 3.5mm Associated bullets in various rigs with no ill effects.  I do like the Speed Passion design where the end bell accepts a special bullet connector (they come with the motor and you can buy spares if you like).  This makes for tidy installations while retaining the flexibility of removable wires.  If you haven't purchased a motor for your Tamiya ESC (TBLE-02S I presume) then I suggest the Speed Passion Competition v3.0MMM motor in an appropriate turn count for your model.  25.5T or 21.5T is considered "stock" for on-road and 17.5T is considered "stock" for buggies.  I personally find that 13.5T is a great choice for most Tamiya kits.  It is considered "super stock" and provides a fun but not over powered experience.

http://www.rcmart.com/speed-passion-competition-series-135r-brushless-motor-free-yeah-racing-heat-sink-sp000038-p-34124.html

Edit:  Come to think of it.  If you are using the TBLE-02S, it has the typical Tamiya style bullet connectors pre-crimped onto the ESC motor wires.  In something like a TT-02 the ESC is close enough to the motor end bell that clipping the bullets off and direct wiring is not only possible but results in a very tidy installation!  However I don't know what kit you are talking about here so you might be best served getting a pack of Tamiya snap connectors #50245  If you go this route, I'd avoid the Speed Passion motors (remember, fewer connectors in a line as possible) and get a more traditional designed brushless.  LRP was the OEM manufacturer for Tamiya Transpeed motors.  The LRP K7 line is a great choice.

http://www.lrp-americastore.com/vector-k7-brushless-motor-13-5t/

If you need motor wire, get silicon shielded 16 gauge wire which will match the ESC gauge.  I typically use 14 gauge in my stuff just for a little bit extra but that's just me.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCGKB&P=ML

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@Effigy3 thanks for the info, that is very useful.

The kit will be a Boomerang with te TBLE-02S and I was considering that exact Speed Passion motor you suggest. Probably with the Tamiya bullet connectors - even if that isn't optimal, for my use it'll probably be ok and I can always change if not.

I'll have more of an idea when I get the kit and see where the ESC is placed and how long the cables are etc. Then I'll have another look at motors and possibly other ESC's.

Useful to know about the type of wire, that would have been a question from me at some point.

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I use XT60s, with the extra grips. Make sure they're from HobbyKing, so you get the gold plated ones.

I don't solder the motor wires even on my Mystic cat. It's on XT90s, that runs twin 1500kv and 8s. Even the smallest amount of corrosion is your enemy and builds up resistance and heat. Deans used to work well before the cheap copies flooded in, now you don't know which ones you're buying.

So it's either solder or top quality plugs for me.

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4 hours ago, Peter_B said:

 

Useful to know about the type of wire, that would have been a question from me at some point.

I use Turnigy silicon 10 swg. It's nice and floppy and fits XT60s. It's around £2.50 a metre from FleaBay. Really good stuff.

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13 hours ago, Peter_B said:

The kit will be a Boomerang with te TBLE-02S and I was considering that exact Speed Passion motor you suggest.

Just a side note, but with it being sensored, you'll need a sensor cable too.

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27 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Just a side note, but with it being sensored, you'll need a sensor cable too.

Thanks for the heads up. I thought they came with the motor.

Some of the motors I've looked at have certainly included them. Can't remember about the Speed Passion though. I'll make sure to check and order one when I get the motor if need be.

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3 hours ago, Peter_B said:

Thanks for the heads up. I thought they came with the motor.

Some of the motors I've looked at have certainly included them. Can't remember about the Speed Passion though. I'll make sure to check and order one when I get the motor if need be.

The Speed Passion motors I've bought have all had a sensor wire included.  That doesn't mean it'll be the right length though so take that into consideration as well.

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Both the brushless motors I have bought so far came with sensor cables, but both needed cables bought separately as the supplied ones were the wrong length.

Speed Passion motors come with very short cables ideal for, say, a TT-02 where the ESC sits very close to the motor, but not much good for my DT-03T where they are on opposite sides of the gearbox.

Trackstar motors in the other hand come with very long sensor cables that might suit something like a Clod or other MOA rig where the motor is far from the ESC, but on my F103 the excess cable just got in the way, so a shorter one was needed.

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