"First in quality around the world" - really?

[TurnipJF]

So I bought my first Tamiya upon the recommendation of my mate who has been driving them for decades, primarily because of how highly he praised their quality. I daresay I am more than satisfied with the quality of my Mad Bull and F103, but looking at recent posts by Carts with his cracked MF-01X chassis and Effigy3 with his malformed TT-02 body post, I'm starting to wonder if I didn't fall for the ramblings of a deluded fanboy.

 

Has Tamiya quality taken a dive of late, was it never that great to begin with, or are these isolated incidents worthy of comment because of how unusual they are? What is the collective view on this?

[Jonathon Gillham]

So far I have been impressed with quality but thats only over the last 6 months. The breakages I've had were either known design flaws such as the diffs in the TT02B, or from constant abuse and they wore out rather than just broke.

My only other brand to compare yo is Kyosho but that isn't fair comparing a race kit to entry level Tamiyas 

Am interested in the responses to this question though

[calicool]

Does Tamiya have kits with flaws..yes  Is tamiya crap..Far from it. They would not be where they are in the industry or have the following that they do if they produced sub par hobby products on the regular.

[Fuijo]

"First for quality around the world" does not and can not equate to perfection, it just implies they get closer than others.

I assume we're talking about the quality of the kits themselves here, rather than any perceived performance or design qualities.

Of the kits I had, my friends had, and the kits I've read about on here that people bought, built and ran in the eighties, I don't think I've

ever come across an account of missing parts, damaged parts or unfit parts.

Considering that back then they'd have all been sorted and packed by humans, I find that rather remarkable. In fact I'm not

sure there are many other countries that would have had a work-ethic capable of approaching that level of consistency.

It's what gave the words "made in Japan" their perceived quality that still mean something in today's throwaway society.

 

Since those early kits, the only actual defect I've found on a Tamiya kit is the moulding of the rear left wing on all Nissan R91CP body shells.

Check yours if you have one. I've built four now, and they all have what looks almost like the tip of a scalpel blade visible on the surface.

 

Of course I've also seen that issue with the wheelbase on that Jagermeister Porsche, which I have to admit is of some concern. To me that's

glaringly bad, and I'm a bit shocked that Tamiya were happy to release it like that.

 

But unfortunately times change, profit margins get smaller and the customer-base gets smaller. That almost obsessive attention to detail

can now be acheived by anyone anywhere with access to automation.

The once revered title of Skilled Craftsman these days, means close to minimum wage employment, and constant pressure to make things ever cheaper.

While people perceive quality of a product in image alone, that's were most companies will be spending their money. Inevitably the physical quality will suffer as a result.

 

That's my perception anyway, as someone who has spent many years working with, repairing and restoring full size cars from 1903 De Dions, to modern

mainstream stuff, with just about everything in between.

[Buggyjam]

54 minutes ago, Fuijo said:

"First for quality around the world" does not and can not equate to perfection, it just implies they get closer than others.

I assume we're talking about the quality of the kits themselves here, rather than any perceived performance or design qualities.

Of the kits I had, my friends had, and the kits I've read about on here that people bought, built and ran in the eighties, I don't think I've

ever come across an account of missing parts, damaged parts or unfit parts.

Considering that back then they'd have all been sorted and packed by humans, I find that rather remarkable. In fact I'm not

sure there are many other countries that would have had a work-ethic capable of approaching that level of consistency.

It's what gave the words "made in Japan" their perceived quality that still mean something in today's throwaway society.

 

Since those early kits, the only actual defect I've found on a Tamiya kit is the moulding of the rear left wing on all Nissan R91CP body shells.

Check yours if you have one. I've built four now, and they all have what looks almost like the tip of a scalpel blade visible on the surface.

 

Of course I've also seen that issue with the wheelbase on that Jagermeister Porsche, which I have to admit is of some concern. To me that's

glaringly bad, and I'm a bit shocked that Tamiya were happy to release it like that.

 

But unfortunately times change, profit margins get smaller and the customer-base gets smaller. That almost obsessive attention to detail

can now be acheived by anyone anywhere with access to automation.

The once revered title of Skilled Craftsman these days, means close to minimum wage employment, and constant pressure to make things ever cheaper.

While people perceive quality of a product in image alone, that's were most companies will be spending their money. Inevitably the physical quality will suffer as a result.

 

That's my perception anyway, as someone who has spent many years working with, repairing and restoring full size cars from 1903 De Dions, to modern

mainstream stuff, with just about everything in between.

What's up with the jag Porsche wheelbase? I don't own one

[moffman]

I think fuijo hit the nail on the head!  But We (the customer after all we are not called humans anymore it's consumers!) want it better and cheaper and these days delivered to our door before we've ordered it and if that means the skilled craftsmen and designer is now either a computer or some poor soul on minimum wage and it's coming to our door by someone who has been conned about their employment writes (yes im talking about Hermes, uber, deliveroo etc plenty to choose from!  then so be it! We are all guilty of looking the other way to get it cheaper and delivered for nothing so in order for these companies Tamiya in this case to meet our selfish demands they probably have no option but to go down this route!, Maybe if we slow down our lives and dare I say except the model we want might just need a little saving because it's more expensive and then take a trip to the local hobby shop to actually buy it thing could be in my opinion probably better!, Remember going to beatties to pick up that SRB (which ever one took your fancy) the ranger in my case and after saving for what seemed like year's buying it then going home building said model and all the little bad points it had like front suspension falling apart and uj's made of brass that lasted  about a week and track rod ends that kept on departing from the steering but did we care? No! And did it do us any harm paying more for our rc's knowing someone is getting paid properly for their labour when producing the kit? Again probably No!. "We reap what we sew"  if we want it cheaper it's always going to be at the expense of quality!

[topforcein]

my only problems i've come across on my kits is the steering issue on the honda city turbo re re and i had a problem with my gearbox case on my bruiser

[drcarlos]

I would suggest you go buy yourself a hobao or absima kit and build that (I've built pro-level race buggies from both) and you'll easily see the difference. Tamiya stuff just goes together and manuals are easy to follow, others require fettling and a degree of ingenuity to decipher instructions. Even the top level tamiya stuff like the egress is a joy to build.

Carl 

[Saito2]

 

Kinda reminds me of a topic I started years back.

[IBIFTKH]

Tamiya have always had a tendency to make quirky cars - some have been over-engineered, others not quite engineered enough. So there have always been questions about the quality, or at least the wisdom, of some of their designs.

If you compare some of Tamiya's modern cars (plastic everything) against some of the older models (lots of metal parts) you can't help feeling that the quality has dropped, or at least that some of the magic isn't there any more. But then again, metal parts don't necessarily mean higher quality or a better car and as others have explained, Tamiya have had to move with the times to survive.

If we're talking about the quality of individual parts, I think Tamiya's claim is still valid. I built my first car in 1983 or thereabouts. Since then I've built, restored or repaired quite a lot of cars - probably over 300, possibly more. In all that time I recall seeing two faulty parts. One was a plastic part where one end of the part was not fully formed. Quality control had either missed it, or allowed it because that particular part wasn't used in that kit anyway. The other was a Clodbuster axle stay which should have an M3 threaded hole at one end but this one didn't. Easy work-around with a longer bolt and a nyloc nut.

Two faulty parts, neither of which caused a problem, out of thousands of parts over nearly 35 years. I think that's pretty good really...  

.

[Theibault]

In my 32 years of buying and building Tamiya kits, I have yet to get one with a production problem. Honestly, I am shocked by it. First in quality, I say yes. I build tons of other brands kits, and nothing comes close to run of good fortune I've had with Tamiya. The last 4 out of 5 Associated kits I've built have had a missing part or a mangled in production piece. Maybe I've been lucky, but we are talking almost 200 kits in 32 years, so they must be doing something right.

[taffer]

Over the last 13 years I've had a Tamiya double blaze missing a manual and a super clodbuster missing a couple of screws, everything else has been perfect.....So far

Other manufacturers I've dabbled with have had a variety of issues of quality, wrong parts etc

Tamiya seems still to be the most reliable for quality

[SNAKEBITE]

I only have to see my son driving his Tamiya and the abuse he gives it to see that Tamiya are a decent manufacturer.

[MadInventor]

My 2 cents

To me, what quality infers here is manufacturing, is the product consistent, free from defects, and are the tolerances acceptable ?

Having been building kits for more than 30 years now (Arrgh I'm too old) Tamiya are still producing a very high quality product, I've personally never had any missing parts in a kit. However:

In my view the quality has gone down a little bit from the kits from the last century. When I built my original hotshot and various other kits back then, when you fitted roller bearings they were a nice tight push fit into the plastic mouldings. A lot of the newer kits (Like the DF-02) have what I would call a sloppy fit of the bearings, even in the idler gears in the gearbox, which is not great to say the least. A notable kit I was not that impressed with was the Jagdpanther 1/16 tank I bought. I had to file the chassis tub in order to get clearance on the gearbox axles (Design mistake) and the upper hull was badly distorted and did not fit squarely on the rear hull plate (Manufacturing / Quality inspection failure). Not good given the expense of the kit and the relatively low numbers produced (Compared to say something like a TT-01)

So yes, IMO they still produce high quality kits, but not quite as well manufactured in some instances as the old kits.

[Fuijo]

2 hours ago, MadInventor said:

........................ When I built my original hotshot and various other kits back then, when you fitted roller bearings they were a nice tight push fit into the plastic mouldings. A lot of the newer kits (Like the DF-02) have what I would call a sloppy fit of the bearings..................................................

I've been noticing this as well. My TB-01 that I bought soon after they came out is like this. The bearing fit in the knuckles is really bad, enough to change from toe-out to toe-in just in the play

of the bearings. It wasn't much better in the GPM alloy ones I replaced them with either. The fit seems very slightly better with genuine Tamiya rubber-sealed bearings, but still not as good a fit

as it should be.

Likewise with all my reissue SRBs. The fit of the bearings in the gearbox castings is very sloppy. Enough for me to worry that the universals have enough wobble to take out the plastic spur/pinion cover.

Are you doing anything about it with yours? Maybe some bearing-fit or Red Hermatite?

[Scouser]

Whilst I may not have the experience of building Tamiya kits over the years, I have built plenty from other manufacturers. 

I ended up moving away from Team Associated products after some products were horribly mounded to the point of being useless. There were not just mould flashes, but actual offset in the two halves.

I also remember the Hotbodies D4 came with diff screws that were too short and diff cases that needed to be filed significantly to get clearance for the diff gears.

When I put my first Tamiya kit together (TA02), it was a genuine pleasure. Since then I have built a good few Tamiyas and have never been anything but happy with them all.

Other manufacturers worth mentioning are Kyosho and GS Racing who have both been spot on quality wise with every kit. Sadly, GS seem to have all but disappeared from the racing scene.

[Dojo Dave]

On Sun May 21 2017 at 4:01 AM, Buggyjam said:

What's up with the jag Porsche wheelbase? I don't own one

Its off by 6mm. Tgete are various threads about it and one on how to fix it. Great kit though. 

[Buggyjam]

1 hour ago, Dojo Dave said:

Its off by 6mm. Tgete are various threads about it and one on how to fix it. Great kit though. 

So it doesn't match the body wheel arches by 6mm? That's not like Tamiya. Like you say, strange they let that through 

[MadInventor]

2 hours ago, Fuijo said:

I've been noticing this as well. My TB-01 that I bought soon after they came out is like this. The bearing fit in the knuckles is really bad, enough to change from toe-out to toe-in just in the play

of the bearings. It wasn't much better in the GPM alloy ones I replaced them with either. The fit seems very slightly better with genuine Tamiya rubber-sealed bearings, but still not as good a fit

as it should be.

Likewise with all my reissue SRBs. The fit of the bearings in the gearbox castings is very sloppy. Enough for me to worry that the universals have enough wobble to take out the plastic spur/pinion cover.

Are you doing anything about it with yours? Maybe some bearing-fit or Red Hermatite?

TBH, I didn't worry about the bearing fit in the DF-02 too much. It's held together for a 50mph speed run so it can't be too bad. I did drag the hotshot out of the loft on the weekend as I hadn't run it for about 7 years, and was really glad I did. great fun with a 4000KV brushless and LiPo and original 30 year old rock hard oval blocks.  Very little grip on paving but great for drifting:)

[WillyChang]

1 hour ago, Buggyjam said:

So it doesn't match the body wheel arches by 6mm? That's not like Tamiya. Like you say, strange they let that through 

It's the 40th Anniversary Limited Edition kit made with recycled parts targeted at T fans who blindly buy everything & guarantee it'll sellout regardless of what's inside the box...  

 

[Dojo Dave]

13 hours ago, WillyChang said:

It's the 40th Anniimersary Limited Edition kit made with secycled parts targeted at t fans who blindly buy everything & guarantee it'll sellout regardless of what's inside the box...  

 

I bought the kit and used the chassis but not the body. The sum total of all the parts Is worth more IN my opinion than the whole kit price. I would consider buying another again for the chassis to put a gt2 body on IT as ITs a great fit. Please excuse my capital letters I am not yelling It Is a glitch on my tablet

[WillyChang]

35 minutes ago, Dojo Dave said:

I bought the kit and used the chassis but not the body. The sum total of all the parts Is worth more IN my opinion than the whole kit price. I would consider buying another again for the chassis to put a gt2 body on IT as ITs a great fit. Please excuse my capital letters I am not yelling It Is a glitch on my tablet

Yeah 40th Ann was a decent buy if you wanted a hopped up TA02SW.

Real puzzler is why they stuffed in the 934; Taisan shell fits better.

934 was done specially for the 30th Ann with a very nice all-new custom chassis, albeit at twice the price even without accounting for inflation 10yrs earlier. 

In essence all we got "new" for 40th Ann was the orange sticker sheet  heck kinda wasted opportunity huh? Like T could've done a 1/10 lexan 935 perhaps, how cool would that be!

[Pablo68]

Yeah I think there has been a small but noticeable drop in quality in the kits over the years.
The plastics seem that bit cheaper and more flexible, bearing surfaces not as tight, flashing on some mouldings etc....

Having said that you still are able to put the model together and use it without having to pick up a file or the dremel or anything else too drastic.

[topforcein]

While building today the Mercedes actros truck I reached the rear suspension mount to the e chassis.

came to use the only screw in the kit to mount it a 3x100 jobbie only to find the lock nut won't screw onto it.

Know it's only a small problem but in my eyes it's a huge one as it's held up the build and I am probably gonna have right game with the hobby company in trying to sort it out.

[Hobbimaster]

If you have never assembled a Tamiya TRF racing kit, I highly recommend it! The TRF's definitely live up to the "First in quality around the world" motto. Expensive, Yes! but Tamiya truly make the high end cars out the the best materials and finishes available at the time they are manufactured.