SJoerD 2 Posted October 20, 2002 Does anyone knows a good substitute for the Tamiya Damper Oil? I found out those little bottles from Tamiya are pretty expensive. I want to use it for many different cars from HotShot to Mini. Are there other brands with good damper oil? And can you use hydrolic oil for it as well? I am a bit confused what to do because the oil inside the dampers is old, and contains a lot of bubbles. Doesn't really look dirty though, but it's not a pretty sight. I have 3 Low-friction dampers: the 4th exploded once (before it got it) because there were air bubbles in it. I hope you can help me out. Visit my site @ www.tamiya.tk ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevinthegerbil 1 Posted October 20, 2002 Hi, Since I race 1/10 Touring cars (TA04 Pro) I always use Schmarcher silicon Damper Oil. They are available in different 'weights' ie 45, 55 etc, but since the 'weight' is not inportant any would do for old tamiya dampers. It costs about £3.00 (was the last time I bought some) for 57ml (2 oz) bottle. I believe Schmarcher products are available outside of the UK. Edited by - kevinthegerbil on 20 Oct 2002 19:55:57 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_lister999. 3 Posted October 20, 2002 great oil that. Bough recently and it went up to 3.50 in the main dealers. Still get loads in abottle though ------------------------- If practice makes perfect, and no one is perfect, why practice? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted October 21, 2002 In the 1980s racers often used motor oil - widely available in different grades, pretty temperature/viscosity stable. And cheap... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJoerD 2 Posted October 21, 2002 quote:Hi, Since I race 1/10 Touring cars (TA04 Pro) I always use Schmarcher silicon Damper Oil. They are available in different 'weights' ie 45, 55 etc, but since the 'weight' is not inportant any would do for old tamiya dampers. It costs about £3.00 (was the last time I bought some) for 57ml (2 oz) bottle. I believe Schmarcher products are available outside of the UK. id=quote>id=quote>Good tip. I'll check it out... Schumacher products are avaliable here in Holland, at least their cars are. Esle I'd probably never heared of it before... What does the 'weight' of a damper oil means? Do you mean the thickness of it? (Hard or soft) This is not really that important, you won't see it anyway I asked this because the tamiya bottles are as I remember €12 (!) for half or third the ammount. 57 ml will certainly be enough to fill a lot of dampers with, so I just get me a bottle. Both the Mini and the HotShot have 2 dampers anyway... Sjoerd Visit my site @ www.tamiya.tk ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJTheo 2 Posted October 21, 2002 It means viscosity, how easily the oil flows. Viscosity is of high importance as it changes the stiffness of the dampers. http://www.vintagetamiyarc.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RETRO R/C 59 Posted October 21, 2002 Put VERY simply - "weight" of oils means the following: 10 weight oil is "lite" - this means that the shock absorber will be very easy to compress and return etc. 100 weight oil on the other hand - will make the shocks harder to compress and return. When you are tuning a car - the weight of the oil can make a dramatic difference to handling.......I will try to explain a little. If you were using 10 weight oil in your buggy - the suspension would be very bouncy (for want of a beter word)! What you need is to find a happy medium where the car rides the bumps smoothly without "pogoing" up and down after every bump. You need a "heavier" oil to do this. What the heavier oil will do is to smooth out the action of the shock - making the car ride the bumps better. If you go too hard with the oil - the shocks will be more "stiff" - and will not compress fast enough for the shocks to absorb the bump. So much for simple! - however I could go into alot more detail - however I dont want to bore anyone !! I hopwe this clears up things a little. Cheers Darryn Want more than Just Tamiya ?? Visit my page !! Edited by - darryn1 on 21 Oct 2002 20:00:13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TamiyaRacer 2 Posted October 21, 2002 Also, for consistancy in the dampening effect, especially from side to side in touring cars, it is important to remove as much of the air (bubbles) as possible from the oil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted October 21, 2002 quote:...to remove as much of the air (bubbles) as possible from the oil. id=quote>id=quote>*ALL* is good. To maximise Grip - Use the softest possible oil that gives just enough damping. Stiffer oils reduce grip as the suspension is less efficient in keeping the tyres on the ground. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted October 21, 2002 Have temperature-stability of silicon oils improved much these days? When they first came out, it used to be very variable on the temp. I didn't race much down here, but outdoor temps can range from 5C (in the morning) to 35-40C (early afternoon) to 20C (evening) all in the one day. You had racers changing oils for every heat... or the smarter ones kept 2-3 different sets of shocks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terry.sc 16 Posted October 23, 2002 Silicone shock oils these days are great, very stable. Tend to run the same weight of oil all year round. My personal favourite is Associated oil, although i tend to use Schumacher as it is more readily available in my local model shop. No more problems with the oil thickening or thinning. Sjoerd, when you fill the shocks, hold them upright and pump tye piston up and down to remove air bubbles trapped under the piston, I then let the shocks stand for a while to let all the bubbles rise to the surface. Use a piece of tissue to wipe off the bubbles before you put the cap back on. "You win some, you lose some, you wreck some" - Dale Earnhart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted October 23, 2002 I find it easier to half-fill the shocks, pump them a bit then let them stand upright for a while. When all the bubbles have risen only then I fill them the rest of the way - I think its faster this way. Whatever oil I'm using, I stick it in an old Tamiya Damper Oil bottle (or Kyosho) just to have the squeezy bottle & spout. Recycle! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJTheo 2 Posted October 24, 2002 Thought the most damper oils had squeezy bottles? At least my LRP ones do... http://www.vintagetamiyarc.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJoerD 2 Posted October 24, 2002 You guys, I KNOW what difference softer or harder oil makes!!! [!] I am not that much of a novice. (Not that being a novice is that bad, but I'm not []) LOL THNX for the comments anyway, as they might not be usefull yo me only... [] To put things shortly: Harder oil: less roll, but less grip Softer oil: more grip, but more roll This means that harder oil is suitable for hi grip surfaces, such as tarmac. Softer oils are for low grip surfaces, such as snow. At least this goes for the springs... [:I] I think the oils are a bit of the same story at that point....I am right, right?id="size1"> There's more in it, like 'bouncing' darryn1 described, but I think this is more important, (especially with on-road) I already know (everyone does...?) that air bubbles are bad. I also know how to fill them, the manual tells me this as well. As I noticed before, one of the alu low friction dampers actually *EXPLODED* [xx(] This is because the air gets hot and expands very quickly putting pressure from inside the damper, wich will result in a bang and a lot of swearing form the car's driver. [] I need 2 anyway for the Mini, so it isn't that bad. [] Too bad I van't use them for the Clio... [v] Sjoerd [8D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted October 24, 2002 And for Tamiya "rubber tube" friction shocks, also try:- honey lithium axle grease vaseline vegemite/promite/marmite nutella Tamiya AW grease [] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJTheo 2 Posted October 25, 2002 Then if a damper breaks/explodes you will have at least a nice breakfast in the track! [] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted October 25, 2002 Puts it in a literal sense, when yelling to your pit mechanic "hey, the car's feeling a little mushy" or "Sticks like glue around corners". [] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJoerD 2 Posted October 25, 2002 quote:Originally posted by DJTheoThen if a damper breaks/explodes you will have at least a nice breakfast in the track! [] id="quote">id="quote">So you have vaseline for breakfast? LOL [] Thought it was for something else. Is it tasty? [] I don't think you should put honey in your shocks, that's suposed to be in the fuel... [] For those who don't know, I was kidding. I ment ppl putting car fuel on the tires for grip...[xx(] (they actually believe you if you tell them... [}] LOLOL! ) Sjoerd [8D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
calvin3 0 Posted October 25, 2002 Sorry for the newbie question......are these any good? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJTheo 2 Posted October 26, 2002 Tamiyas plastic CVAs work pretty fine and dont loose much oil as the old Racing Buggy metal dampers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJoerD 2 Posted October 26, 2002 What car are those for? Maybe I can install some on my King Blackfoot, if they are not too expensive. I haven't driven that thing in a year though... [] I got no proper place anymore to go off-road these days. I think the KBF uses the 'short' shock units, as on the picture. How much do those cost? [] And are they in red as well, ClodBuster dampers maybe? I need 4, not 8 as on the Clodbuster. [] Hope you can help me out with this as well... [] Sjoerd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RETRO R/C 59 Posted October 26, 2002 Besides the basic correct geometry - shocks are the single biggest part of a great handling car. It is a "blanket" statement to say that "softer oils are for low grip surfaces" ....... this, in some cases could not be further from the truth - often in low grip situations - it is better to have "harder oil" and stiff springs to FORCE the tyres onto the surface - to make them do their job - GRIP....... There are alot of variables in racing - and one of the biggest is in suspension - particularly shock settings. The best thing to do is to experiment........unfortunately this will mean spending some money and trying different things - even products. As for oils being tmeperature "secure" now - yep - there are still a few that are not stable - however most of the big brands are very good......... God I used to hate it here in canberra when it was virtually snowing in the morning - and by mid day - you would be down to shorts and a t-shirt - and the car woulds be handling the total opposite to the morning - all because of the oil changing its characteristics (this is 10 years ago guys !!). Beleive it or not - here in Australia we actually have all of the same weather that every other country has - yep even snow !! (we even win medals at the winter olympics as well !! ) [:0][!] and beleive it or not - we dont have kangaroo's as pets - they are a wild animal !! [][][8D] Those yellow CVA dampers are great - I am even using them on my Juggy at the momenrt - they are smooth, cheap and dont leak -perfect for fun cars !! Cheers Darryn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJoerD 2 Posted October 26, 2002 Well, if you make your oil TOO soft you will get far too much roll which will eventually make you loose grip. "Softer oils are for low grip surfaces" is true, but the problem you get with softer oils is called 'roll'. 'Roll' is something that occurs due horizontal G-forces. Imagine sitting in you car, when steering suddenly to one side. You'll notice the car 'wants' to lean over to the opposite direction. (Isn't this called center-force or something? I don't know the English term for this physical phenomenon). I think you know what I mean... [] Anyway, this 'roll' will cause the car to LOOSE a good steering response. This might be alterered with a stiffer damper. Lowering the car will also take away a lot of roll, but you reach a point the car can't be lowered further. This point is a bit higher in (most) off-road situations in which you need ground clearance. Then, if you drive on a 'low grip' surface, suppose sand. The car has a lots grip and doesn't 'break out' in corners. Lets say you lowered the car tremenously, while keeping enough ground clearance (or wing adjustments etc. etc.). Obviously you don't need to have a softer oil for even more grip. Instead, putting in a hard oil may take away some roll, which will help greatly to a very well steering response. You can also add a stabilizer: you will reduce roll, but the dampers will be just as soft as they where. This softness will not show it's effect in steering, but it might give your car a softer response on driving over a hump with both wheels at the same time. This is a bit of an other story, but I think it should be mentioned when talking about things like 'grip' and 'roll'. I hope I explained it a bit clearer now, I must admit my previous statement on the subject was a bit too short and needed some more explanation. [:I] I hope I explained it a little better now. I think this kind of stuff and discussing it is very valuable to other members as well. [] That's what the forums are all about in the end... [] Sjoerd [8D] (I'll be known as 'Dutch Trade' in the future []) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJTheo 2 Posted October 27, 2002 Red Clodbuster dampers I think are only friction dampers. Damper adjustment should be done also according to the road surface, not only grip. Dampers for racing should be just as stiff, before the tires start losing contact with the (uneven) road surface, because then the (overdamped) suspension cannot follow the road surface and tires in the air cannot proivde grip [] For normal 1:1 cars everything is even more complicated as also comfort has to be taken into consideration, poor Tamiya figures getting many G shocks while we have fun... [] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted October 28, 2002 quote:Originally posted by SjoerdSo you have vaseline for breakfast? LOL Thought it was for something else. id="quote">id="quote">Yeah, we Ozzies put Vaseline on the car battery terminals to stop corrosion... quote:Originally posted by SjoerdI ment ppl putting car fuel on the tires for grip...(they actually believe you if you tell them... id="quote">id="quote">Ditto, the locals used to use suntan lotion on tyres... until that practice of "unauthorised additive" was banned. [] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
