Lipos?????

[Carts]

Ok so I'm nearly 40 and still not got a clue what 1s 2s 3s lipo means??? Do you need a different charger??? They are suppose to make things fly so I'm interested in how it all works. probably been asked before numerous of time but humour me lol . Also what do I need and where in uk best place to get one. thanks 

[Supercoolnothing]

S is the number of 3.7v cells in the pack so 2s is the standard 7.4v pack for most 1/10th car.

C rating is the max current the battery can supply. Example - For a 2000 mAh battery with a 15C rating, the continuous current that may be drawn out of the battery is 2000 mAh x 15 = 30000 mA, or 30 Amps (A) (divide by 1000). There is also another rating that is applicable to a battery known as peak or "burst" current discharge rating.

You'll need to get a lipo compatible charger and preferably a charging sack (having a lipo go bang on you is not a fun thing to have happen) 

For car use always always always use hardcase lipos otherwise you run the risk of an errant stone or debris puncturing there pack and making it go bang which will take your car with it. 

 

 

[Prescient]

2 hours ago, Carts said:

Ok so I'm nearly 40 and still not got a clue what 1s 2s 3s lipo means??? Do you need a different charger??? They are suppose to make things fly so I'm interested in how it all works. probably been asked before numerous of time but humour me lol . Also what do I need and where in uk best place to get one. thanks 

Don't be tempted by questionable Chinese import or eBay no brand or possible fake brand chargers to save money. With lipos, the charger is one of the most safety critical aspects. In that regard, I would personally purchase from either Modelsport or Wheelspin Models or one of the good online stores with a physical shop who will offer good support and after sales as well. 

Hobbyking (UK warehouse) is a good source of Lipo batteries at very reasonable prices. They have a huge range of capacities and sizing options. 

A charging bag is also an essential. Lipos do go bang and can set fire. The usual cause of this amongst people I know who have had it happen is due to dodgy chargers and miss charging. Those I told you so moments.... 

This is one of those topics where a discussion with your model shop of choice is a good way to get the right set up (eg Modelsport). Some local model shops do offer competitive pricing as well. 

It depends what you want to run but for Tamiya kits the standard silver can motor + a Hobbywing Quicrun 1060 ESC + 3s lipo gives awesome results for little outlay and gets you into Lipo. 

Charger, budget £40-80 with the balance board and connector leads. Lipo budget £12-£30 each depending on 2s, 3s, C rating and brand. 1060 ESC is £16 from UK suppliers. 

If you want to go brushless then really £70-£130 for a decent combo. For UK supplied stock I would always suggest you stick with Hobbywing Brushless ESCs + Speed Passion motors from Modelsport or a Castle Creations Sidewinder Combo whilst getting into the hobby. 

Once you have solid uk supported kit up and running it's less stressful taking risks on Chinese ESCs and Motors etc like Goolrc off eBay. Cheap and usually do work, can go pop can be dead on arrival. Still wouldn't take risks on the charger though. 

[Kingfisher]

 

[Wooders28]

Some good lipo info covered in this thread too, plus nimh and brushless

"S" does mean you add the cells and stands for "serise" so 2 x 3.7v will give you 7.4v, but you can get (and i have, which confused me a bit!) Lipo's thatare 2S2P, which are 4 cells, but are configured,2 in Series 2 in Parallel.Still 7.4v, but a larger (double) mah rating.

For example, your tv remote will (generally) have 2 x AAA batteries in,they are run in Series to give 3v (1.5v a cell).

[Carts]

Thanks guys great help 😃

[nowinaminute]

I only got back into RC last year and was terrified of lipo but a lot of the horror stories begin with batteries being left unattended whilst charging, often with improper settings etc. They shouldn't be dangerous if treated correctly.

I hate to admit it but I even have one of those fake Imax B6 chargers and it hasn't missed a beat, I've been charging with it constantly and it works perfectly with lipo, li-ion, lifepo4, nimh, nicad and even the on pb batteries in my daughters ride on car. All the internal soldering is to a decent standard and nothing has failed so far.

I think those things are a gamble though, quality control is notoriously poor and I was lucky. Genuine chargers don't cost much more in the scheme of things. And even with the genuine B6 models the discharge current is only 1amp max, there's affordable chargers out there with better capabilities. 

I've had a decent experience with cheap floureon packs, a couple of 2s 4000mah packs that have been flawless, hobbyking also sell decent budget packs that perform well and I'd probably trust them more than Floureon.

If you want a pack that is the Shape of a standard nicad pack to fit in older Tamiya models then Core RC and hobbyking do a 4000mah lipo in a Nicad shaped pack. Floureon do one too and a few other brands.

As others have said, paying attention to safety is all you really need to do. Never leave batteries charging unattended, you can unplug stuff and throw stuff outside if you're sat there watching, especially if you use a charge sack. If you're in another room it might be too late by the time you get there or if you leave something in the garage charging you might not realise till you smell the burning.

Be attentive with settings on the charger, especially if you have batteries of different capacity and cell count.

Most chargers will double check the cell count but it's better to be safe than sorry and get in the habit of making sure the settings match your battery every single time.

And although batteries spontaneously combusting when not being used or charged is very very VERY rare it pays to put at least a little thought into storing them safely. I only have a few so they are in fire sacks and the sacks are in an old crockpot, if you have a garage or shed with a concrete floor you can build a little bunker out of breeze blocks to keep them contained, some people put a bag of sand on top so that if there's a fire they will be smothered.

It's up to you how much precaution you take but at least put them somewhere that will be less dangerous if they do happen to decide to burst into flames. Don't leave them sat around on the carpet or a wooden desk etc. Put them in sacks and at the very least a secondary container that we'll also minimise flames getting out. Some people even put them inside thier ovens which I guess is very flame proof but not such a good idea if you forget they are there and put the oven on to preheat!

I was always nervous about the idea of lipo and scared by the horror stories but then again, you never hear from the millions of people that don't have problems.

Once you actually try a lipo you will understand what it's all about. Take a car with a standard silver can and 7.2v nimh and put a 2s lipo in there and you'll be amazed at the difference, the acceleration will be more aggressive, top speed better and it will be more powerful for more of the run. You could even try 3s on a silver can (although be careful, it can lead to overheating in heavier vehicles) you'd be amazed what a plain old 27t Mabuchi can do with a 3s pack!

Combine lipo with a brushless motor and it gets better still, you can get decent brushless motor/esc combos for £30 these days and the power is exhilarating.

 

[Nitomor]

Assuming you're running Tamiya's being on TC forum, I'd recommend you get this battery, it fits every Tamiya chassis that a normal nimh battery would, I have a few of these and they work on everything in my fleet including the notoriously tight Hornet and lunchbox;

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/core-rc-4000mahr-7-4v-30-60c-2s-lipo/rc-car-products/388538

You'll need a decent lipo charger. There are lots to choose from, I have a quad one that does 4 batteries at a time but we go out as a family so it was a good buy for us. 

Lipo sacks give peace of mind, I use these but lots of others out there;

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-plazma-pouch-lipo-safe-case-black-/rc-car-products/370156

Enjoy. I wasted too much money on useless nimh, Lipo is so much more convenient. All good advice above, get a decent hard pack and don't charge unattended and most importantly make sure you understand how to use the charger and that it is set to the right settings, for example charging a lipo in nimh mode would likely be bad news!

Inspect it after every discharge and keep an eye on it for any damage to the plug, wires or casing including swelling and if you have an intelligent charger, that it is taking the correct charge mah.

enjoy

 

[Wooders28]

2 hours ago, Nitomor said:

Inspect it after every discharge and keep an eye on it for any damage to the plug, wires or casing including swelling

At what point do you call time on a lipo before it's salt bath and bin fodder? (Or fully charge it, put it in the middle of the garden and short it out 🤔) 

The 3s I used for the ill fated, just one more run, for the fastest tamiya on here, I'm sure isn't lasting as long as it used to and I'm getting a few charging errors now, but I'm not sure it's puffed (Google images show split casing etc, it's nothing like that....yet) 

[Nitomor]

I'm far from a lipo pro, I actually have an HPI hard case 2S lipo which has swelled a bit, yet it has never got worse, doesn't get hot and takes a full charge so I keep a closer eye on it but it seems perfectly usable still. I guess it's a case of being cautious, using common sense and making sure you feel comfortable with it. I think if I started getting errors charging I'd be getting a little paranoid if I'm honest but that's me.

 

 

 

[Wooders28]

3 minutes ago, Nitomor said:

I think if I started getting errors charging I'd be getting a little paranoid if I'm honest but that's me.

I'm with you on that,It's double charge bagged and in its own ammo case atm.

It's just it was almost £50 😔, but the battery price is one thing, it's the car and all the gear price too if it decided to expire mid run. 

I know you can't cycle charge them like you can with nicad/nimh, but I'm hoping a couple of low amp balance charges could bring it back to life? 

If it's had it's time, do I discharge with a car bulb, then salt bath?

Or , charge it fully and short it out / put a  1:1 car quick charger on it and watch it go fizz? 🤔

[nowinaminute]

17 hours ago, Nitomor said:

Assuming you're running Tamiya's being on TC forum, I'd recommend you get this battery, it fits every Tamiya chassis that a normal nimh battery would, I have a few of these and they work on everything in my fleet including the notoriously tight Hornet and lunchbox;

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/core-rc-4000mahr-7-4v-30-60c-2s-lipo/rc-car-products/388538

You'll need a decent lipo charger. There are lots to choose from, I have a quad one that does 4 batteries at a time but we go out as a family so it was a good buy for us. 

Lipo sacks give peace of mind, I use these but lots of others out there;

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-plazma-pouch-lipo-safe-case-black-/rc-car-products/370156

Enjoy. I wasted too much money on useless nimh, Lipo is so much more convenient. All good advice above, get a decent hard pack and don't charge unattended and most importantly make sure you understand how to use the charger and that it is set to the right settings, for example charging a lipo in nimh mode would likely be bad news!

Inspect it after every discharge and keep an eye on it for any damage to the plug, wires or casing including swelling and if you have an intelligent charger, that it is taking the correct charge mah.

enjoy

 

I use the exact same battery, it's perfect for older Tamiya stuff and also the older Nikko stuff that's practically hobby grade like the F10, dictator, Hawg etc (and the rebranded Radio Shack versions) going from the 1200 mah nicad they came with to a lipo is pretty fun to experience!

To the OP, If you do try out lipo you may also wish to set your voltage cutoff a little higher than the default 3.0v per cell. A lot of research shows that the battery output kind of falls off a cliff at around 80% discharge with little benefit to running it further but the potential to shorten life.

This phenomenon seems to be particular to RC use where the discharge currents are high. A lot of it will depend on the battery and vehicle used so it's not exact science but it might be worth reading into it a little and learning about stuff like voltage sag.

A cheap battery in a heavy truck in harsh conditions would sag more than a high quality battery in a light buggy being cruised around. With that in mind, you may want to set the low voltage cutoff lower for the former case to avoid premature cut off and set it higher for the latter because the battery will sag less and recover by less too. So if for example you set both to a 3.0v cut off the former might recover to as much as 3.4v or higher but the latter only to 3.1v so you may need different settings for different batteries/vehicles/usages if you want to end up with a particular resting voltage after a run. It helps to get used to how a particular battery behaves in terms of sag and recovery.

Worst case, as long as you set it to 3.0v as a minimum you should avoid any major incidents but setting a little higher seems to be recommended by many for better battery life and less chance of puffing but different batteries and vehicles may benefit from different settings.

That all being said, you'll often notice the power fall off and get a feeling that it's time to bring the car in anyway, that power fall off often seems to coincide with the optimal discharge for that particular battery.

You'll often see people say they rely on feel rather than cutoff for lipo, I used to think they were lunatics but after using lipo a while you do notice a reduction in oomph towards the end of the usable capacity imo.

[Nitomor]

 

2 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

If it's had it's time, do I discharge with a car bulb, then salt bath?

Or , charge it fully and short it out / put a  1:1 car quick charger on it and watch it go fizz? 🤔

decisions decisions lol....

 

[Driveforfun]

Another here that has had no problems with the inexpensive floureon lipo batteries off amazon - they have been great for me

[gizard]

On ‎23‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 9:05 PM, Nitomor said:

Assuming you're running Tamiya's being on TC forum, I'd recommend you get this battery, it fits every Tamiya chassis that a normal nimh battery would, I have a few of these and they work on everything in my fleet including the notoriously tight Hornet and lunchbox;

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/core-rc-4000mahr-7-4v-30-60c-2s-lipo/rc-car-products/388538

 

 

Wow - bought a couple of these the other day along with the HK lipo alarms - using them on various cars and wow what a difference they make - maybe my nimh packs are just tired. - My Blitzer with it's 13.5t MMM motor really needs a wheelie bar now! FYI I am using TBLE-02s across the board. as a negative it really shows that steering and camber etc. needs to be setup even better!

 

cheers

 

G

[Prescient]

I remember this thread. @gizardthat 13.5t is a great motor. You should try it with one of the Hobbywing BL ESCs where you can advance the punch. The TBLE-02S run a lot more conservatively than others anyway.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/hobbywing-quicrun-10bl60-sensored-bl-esc/rc-car-products

I still use these two batteries but keep meaning to get one of those Core RC ones.

Both are soft packs and capacity is middle of the road @3300mAh but for the price you can buy 2-3 to 1. 

I am bored by the time I have run 2 packs down. 

They also so slim and light you can add a casing or protection if needed with space to spare. 

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-3300mah-2s-35-70c-lipo-pack-xt-60.html

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-3300mah-2s-30c-lipo-pack-xt-60.html

[novicelad]

Excellent thread!

I am toying with lipos but they scare me still cant bring myself to buy one! 

Even brought a lipo charger last month, maybe I will see what cash I am left with at the end of this month. The credit card has taken a bashing because of my new found love of RC! 

I may have a chinese brushless combo on its way HAHAH

[novicelad]

On 10/27/2017 at 8:40 AM, novicelad said:

Excellent thread!

I am toying with lipos but they scare me still cant bring myself to buy one! 

Even brought a lipo charger last month, maybe I will see what cash I am left with at the end of this month. The credit card has taken a bashing because of my new found love of RC! 

I may have a chinese brushless combo on its way HAHAH

So I have only gone and done it, brought a 2s stick pack from my local rc shop and a peak power stick from fleabay.

Also brought some voltage alarms because my ESC's dont have alarms.

Hopefully will get to play this weekend! 

[nowinaminute]

On 31/10/2017 at 1:27 PM, novicelad said:

So I have only gone and done it, brought a 2s stick pack from my local rc shop and a peak power stick from fleabay.

Also brought some voltage alarms because my ESC's dont have alarms.

Hopefully will get to play this weekend! 

Once you try it you'll love it!

As long as you follow a few simple rules you'll be fine in regards to safety.

Never charge unattended, every single "lipo burned my house down" story seems to involve unattended charging and/or incorrect charging methods. Even if you're not using a sack or bag to charge, if you're sat there whilst it's charging you WILL notice as soon as something goes amiss and you will have a chance to chuck it out the door quickly. 

Try to avoid over discharging. Setting  a low voltage cutoff or alarm to 3.0v per cell is risky IMO, even with good quality and healthy packs the cells tend to drift apart as the pack approaches depletion. The LVC won't differentiate between 2 cells at 3.0v and one cell at 2.8v and one at 3.2v.

I tend to set my cutoff to 3.2v or more depending on the pack, vehicle and driving conditions. There's a lot of variables to how much a pack will sag under load and recover after rest which can affect how you might want to set your cutoff or alarm. The general consensus seems to be that a pack that reads about 3.6v per cell at rest has pretty much given all the useful energy it can, there's very little benefit from trying to push it further.

In my experience, you will tend to notice a drop off in performance that will coinside with the 3.6v resting voltage, sometimes you'll see people say they don't use an alarm or cutoff and drive by feel alone which sounds nuts but almost every time I'm out bashing and notice a distinct drop off in punch the alarm is never far behind.

Charge safe, don't over discharge,  don't leave the pack sat plugged into a vehicle unattended, don't leave the pack sat around when not in use. I haven't gone as far as making a bunker or getting an ammo box like some but I do keep my packs inside sacks and the sacks inside an old slow cooker so that hopefully amy potential fire would be relatively well contained.

Saying all that, it seems like the vast majority of incidents happen from over charging either from human or charger error and not being around to react in time.

[Wooders28]

17 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

Saying all that, it seems like the vast majority of incidents happen from over charging either from human or charger error and not being around to react in time.

⬆⬆ This 

I haven't heard of a model shop burning down, and they have them stored in cardboard boxes on the shelf, (albeit, in factory,sleep,status)

[paullyjay]

On 20/07/2017 at 5:34 PM, Carts said:

Ok so I'm nearly 40 and still not got a clue what 1s 2s 3s lipo means??? Do you need a different charger??? They are suppose to make things fly so I'm interested in how it all works. probably been asked before numerous of time but humour me lol . Also what do I need and where in uk best place to get one. thanks 

I use Zippy 4000 25c 2cell hardcase batteries from HobbyKing in my cars, they have been great! But, they don't fit in some of the older cars with oval battery bays.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-4000mah-2s1p-25c-car-lipoly-roar-approved-de-warehouse.html

 

On 27/10/2017 at 8:40 AM, novicelad said:

Excellent thread!

I am toying with lipos but they scare me still cant bring myself to buy one! 

Even brought a lipo charger last month, maybe I will see what cash I am left with at the end of this month. The credit card has taken a bashing because of my new found love of RC! 

I may have a chinese brushless combo on its way HAHAH

I was very dubious about LiPo's, I mean, you hear all the horror stories right?

But actually, your mobile and your laptop have had Lithium based batteries for years...

I moved to LiPo about 3 years ago now and once you get your head around safely charging and discharging (using a good charger and voltage alarms etc...) you'll be converted!

As mentioned above almost all problems are because of human intervention, usually due to charging at a too high rate, over discharging or charging when the batteries are still hot from use finally, never try to use a damaged LiPo battery... If you watch youtube videos of exploding LiPos they are either being charged too hard or pierced to cause the fire...

[Hobbimaster]

I run a mix of Lipo batteries, and still run NiMh also. Most of my re-released Tamiya's still run NiMh's with the kit supplied silver can motor. And most of my brushless cars that are race worthy get the lipo's.  At one point and time I was totally Lipo in everything, but it gets expensive with every new Tamiya re-release. Hobbyking has been my battery supplier for a few years now, and highly recommend them for inexpensive Lipo's, NiMh's and some really nice chargers too.

[Prescient]

I do find using NiMH with a TBLE-02S a ideal bench setup for testing servos, centering and initiating a kit, new motors, new radio etc.

That setup has never gone wrong on me.

No stress on storing and charging lipos indoors for initiating stage then either.