Airbrush vs Can

[SuperChamp82]

Ok so I've learned the bodywork basics - mostly through hideous mistakes ... - and now aspire to gracefully (unbroken) corners and a perfectly smooth, top coat.

So far, I've used cans and learned how to mist, grade and blend finishes with associated masking. 

The downside is it's incredibly hard to do precision (or delicate) stuff - the can's breadth of spray is too wide and the consistent output pressure makes anything closer than 150mm pitted or prone to pooling. 

Question - do I need to invest (and learn how to use) a decent airbrush or are the other can techniques I can learn ?

If so, advice on either would be much appreciated ?

Next up is a box art SRB - which is clearly a challenge !

[VagabondStarJXF]

I'd recommending an airbrush and compressor setup. They're relatively cheap nowadays with a compressor with two basic airbrushes going for around £60 on eBay. I got a similar compressor with only one airbrush for the same amount a few years ago so prices haven't changed all that much. The airbrush is basic but is good enough to get your practice in. Once you're confident in your abilities you can invest in a more expensive airbrush and still have a fairly decent compressor to keep you going. Alternatively, if you don't end up being that in to it and just want to have a more even and controlled paint job, you've still got a decent enough setup to do your basics which allows you to use your own custom mixed colours, metal flakes, pearls, etc. even if you don't wind up getting all artsy with your airbrush. It'll even save you money because you can buy the small pots of paint for under £2 each instead of up to around £20 for a single can of Tamiya. Iridescent and limited edition paints can hit the wallet real hard if you don't grab 'em when they're cheap and plentiful. (e.g. Tamiya 89912 Iridescent Blue/Green PS paint, via eBay, is approx. £11 with approx. £12 shipping)

[casethejoint]

48 minutes ago, SuperChamp82 said:

do I need to invest (and learn how to use) a decent airbrush

Yes you do.

48 minutes ago, SuperChamp82 said:

or are the other can techniques I can learn

Not really. Whatever you do you're stuck with that wide pattern, occasional sputtering and decreasing pressure as you use it. All those get solved with a decent airbrush.

If you can live with something a little louder (eg if you spray in a garage) then you can buy a regular compressor, which are considerably cheaper than specialist airbrush compressors (which are very quiet and that's largely what you pay for with them). 

55 minutes ago, SuperChamp82 said:

Next up is a box art SRB - which is clearly a challenge !

Yep, that'll definitely test your masking skills

[Wooders28]

I've used an airbrush with a can of air ,(instead of a compressor) as i wasn't painting many bodies, with some success. Rattle tin for large areas.

 

[salvine]

Another option some people use is a large CO2 bottle with a regulator. They can last ages before needing a refill and are silent to use. Airbrushes are great but understand there is a decent amount of practice before you paint one of those once-in-a-lifetime bodies. Also more clean up and fiddling to get the paint thinned correctly. I use mine when needed but still just use a can as often as possible for ease of use.

[WillyChang]

In the past ppl have run their Badgers off a spare tyre... yeah, grab your car spare tyre (on rim) and go inflate it to 60-80lbs. Make some DIY plumbing to hook a Schrader valve to airline input, the pumped tyre could last an evening's spraying. 

[Shodog]

I run my airbrush off of my shop compressor that has an air filter.  Go for a dual action airbrush. This allows you to vary the paint and air independently

[SuperChamp82]

Thanks guys - airbrush + another learning curve it is.

What set up would you recommend ?

I've read Iwata kit is good - maybe their Eclipse ? - but don't want to buy a Ferrari when I've barely passed my driving test ...

[Supercoolnothing]

I use an itawa eclipse hp-ch as my main brush. Not the cheapest thing on the planet but definitely the best brush I have ever used. It does fine line and block painting with ease. 

[Nitomor]

I have 4 Iwata airbrushes, there is one that stands head and shoulders above the others for this hobby and it's versatility, the HP-TH. The Kustom version as below has a bigger paint pot too.

Not recommending this trader just first to come up on Google.

https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Iwata-Kustom-Hi-Line-HP-TH.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuLOwk9Wz1QIVJr7tCh1oxgbLEAQYASABEgKeBfD_BwE

Here is mine.

With it's 0.5 needle,this will spray sparklescents and lacquer and it comes with two needle caps; a fan and finer pattern so it can do smaller stuff like drivers. It is a fantastic airbrush, I can't recommend it highly enough, yes it's not cheap but this is the best name in airbrushes and it's a tool for life.

[Nitomor]

Just to add, there will be lots of trial and error and bear in mind this is almost an entire new hobby altogether, 'consume you it will!'

You'll go from this...

To this...

It opens up so many options, it's been a great and at times very frustrating learning curve.

Good luck, it'll be another feather to your bow, and it's quite cool when you can be a hero and paint your kids nerf guns!!

(Disclaimer Note: Do not allow them to carry in public!!)

[SuperChamp82]

Thanks guys.

What Iwata brush is going to be easiest for a novice like me to learn with then enjoy ?

I don't want to waste money upgrading in a month - or over-spend on something that will get the better of me. 

I'll also need to factor in a compressor and maintenance kit - maybe a small spray booth too.

[Supercoolnothing]

I really like my hp-ch, it's got adjustable trigger travel (meaning once you get the desired line thickness you can basically lock it so it'll produce the same line time after time) and it's also got a micro air control valve so you can really fine tune things. I'd also recommend getting an in line moisture trap which connects to the airbrush and stops moisture from getting into the paint, it also makes for a nice comfortable handle which really makes a big difference when painting. Other things you'll need to get is airbrush hose iwata use 1/8bsp,  I'd say you're best getting at least a 3m hose to help smooth out the air flow into the brush and quick release connectors are incredibly useful to have fitted to the brush and help stop the hose from twisting up on itself. 

[casethejoint]

1 hour ago, SuperChamp82 said:

I'll also need to factor in a compressor and maintenance kit - maybe a small spray booth too.

As mentioned if you can live with a little noise you can use a regular compressor which will be a fraction of the cost of a dedicated airbrush compressor. And as mentioned above a car inner tube will get you started, as will rattle can air supplies (although cost of those will add up quickly so I'd recommend not going that route).

Spray booths are pretty easy to DIY : 

 

[Nitomor]

I have Iwata Kustom series TH, CH and CS. The TH has 0.5mm needle, the CH a 0.3mm needle and the CS a 0.35mm needle with a 0.5mm needle option (which is how I run mine). The TH and CH have mac valve and all have trigger limiters and the Kustom series come in a lovely metal exclusive case and include a moisture filter. They also have larger paint wells and larger triggers on some.

Kustom series here;

https://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Iwata-Kustom.html

as mentioned earlier, if I could only buy one, it would be the TH. It is perfect for our modelling needs. The 0.3mm needle airbrushes can jam easier and some media gets jammed in it, especially when using more adventurous metallics and sparkelescent paints. It comes with two end caps, one for fine spray and one for broad which is ideal for spraying bodyshells.

The CH is excellent for very fine detailing and thin paints, like chrome type paints. The CS is also very good for general airbrushing and with the 0.5 needle option you can run metallics and the like, I tend to use that for drivers, and the TH for shells. The TH will also handle primers as well as clear coats which the smaller needles would struggle with.

They are all very good for cleaning, they can be taken fully apart, spares are readily available, they are if anything easier for a novice as they just so good that you aren't have to fight poor quality amongst everything else. My reasoning was that if i buy the best I can afford, I'd only have myself to blame for poor results. 

They work great for lexan bodies too.

You need to find a good balance for thinning paints and the right pressure, this varies by room temp and type of paint so you need to get a feel for it which comes with practice. I tend to reduce paints by 20-25% and spray at 15-20psi. I use Auto Air paints for shells.

Ps, I'd get the decent airbrush first, compressor and booth you can improvise with easily enough. Airbrush compressors are great for indoors (I use the conservatory!) as they are pretty quiet compared to workshop ones but it depends where you are spraying. The workshop ones are far more powerful and cheaper. A big cardboard box makes a decent booth. You can make your own, some great examples about on the net. Bathroom fans and oven extractors are all available cheaply and can be made to fit.

Early booth in a well ventilated area!!

[d4dawg]

Check out Paul Budzik's videos on YouTube. This is a great intro..., don't forget to watch his other videos on the same subject.

 

[d4dawg]

I personally think that for our 1/10 scale RC bodies which are not super detailed or delicate, a general purpose airbrush like the Iwata HP-CS would work great. It's a middle of the road, quality airbrush. I would stay away from the cheap no-name eBay specials, not saying those cannot product good results, but nothing is more frustrating when you are starting out and learning, and not knowing whether dissatisfying results were caused by you or the airbrush. By going with a quality airbrush from a known brand, you will at least know that it is not likely the fault of the airbrush if something is messed up.

If you can swing it, and have a shop air compressor, add a small spray gun (not airbrush) for painting large areas like the main car body. The Iwata RG-3 or LPH-50 (I like the fan pattern, but it requires an air compressor capable of delivering large volumes of air) are great choices.

[Nitomor]

There is also the Iwata G5 for fan which is my fourth brush, mainly for clear coating, it's a miniature spray gun so the smaller compressor can handle it but it's on the limit. Not cheap though and a one trick pony for the money.

https://airbrushes.com/product_info.php?products_id=3309

The CS is a very good brush (although I would recommend getting the optional 0.5mm needle with it) but the TH has a fan cap (a broader spread) and round cap (narrow spray) so you get the best of all worlds but I've said too much on the TH already!! Depending on cap you can go from 3mm to 63mm fan with the TH. I've just noticed one of my posts I've called it TR off to edit it, it's the TH!! I bought mine here...I'd recommend reading all the specs on the brushes and trying to understand it all before coming to a decision.

https://airbrushes.com/product_info.php?cPath=400_403_1_9_257&products_id=2316

[SuperChamp82]

Thanks guys - Iwata TH or CS it is !

Please can you help me with the needle options ? I'm not sure what the diameters actually mean in terms of painting styles / options.

Thanks for the You Tube link D4 - really helpful. 

Sorry if tis a dumb question but what made you recommend a spray gun as well as an airbrush ?

[Nitomor]

When changing the needle, you need to buy a needle, nozzle and nozzle cap. The larger size nozzle allows you to deal with thicker paints without clogging up the nozzles (particularly important if you want to spray metallics and sparklescent type colours, but also primer and clear coats which you don't want to thin too much so as to prevent runs). Think of it as selecting a traditional paint brush size.

The thinner nozzle will allow a finer spray pattern effectively spraying a thinner line with better control, like using a finer paintbrush and also better when using thinner paints, such as 'Life Color' flesh paints for drivers. There are situations were it's nice to have a really thin line for detail spraying, like seat belt buckles and things like that, or some paints are really thin like Alclads fine range of metallics which come out really well with a fine brush. I use a CH for this type of work (0.3mm nozzle).

The CS comes with a 0.35mm needle/nozzle (but can take the optional purchase 0.5mm version). The TH only has the 0.5mm version but comes with two nozzle caps, a fan and a round cap. If you look at the specs closely of the various brushes, you can see the min and max line thicknesses that they can paint. For example with its round cap, the TH will go from a 3mm line upto 50mm if you hold the brush further away. With the fan cap, up to 63mm. A 0.35mm equipped CS will do a fine 0.35mm to 50mm line. With the larger 0.5mm needle it is likely to be as per the TH with fine cap, so 3mm upto 50mm.

The 0.3mm CH brush will do 0.3mm to 25mm. As you can see, the CH goes finer than either the CS or TH with better control so compliments those very nicely. I did a huge amount of research before buying mine and I nearly didn't go with the TH but delighted that I did as it is the one that is most used. Followed by the G5 and the CH. The TH and CS are pretty similar on specs but the TH nudges it for me on versatility as it's a doddle to swap nozzle caps and the gun style trigger is actually really nice to use and allows for better dexterity when spraying into nooks and crannies. That said, with the CS you could run it as either a 0.35mm or optional  0.5mm nozzle setups, meaning that if you could really only ever have one airbrush then it could almost act as two guns in one, albeit you would need to keep swapping over the nozzle/needle/cap in order to make that happen and obviously pay extra to buy the larger needle kit.

Spray guns on the other hand are good for volume, covering more area with a lot less passes but it takes some of the romance out of it. I use the G5 mini spray gun for clear coats only. For 1/10th scale the TH is fine. If you were regularly doing larger areas then you'd want to certainly consider one. If you get the bug, you could always go for a smaller and larger one later. The TH is massively versatile and yet slots in perfectly with future expansion plans.

 Be warned, airbrushing gets under your skin and although an offshoot of our hobby, it is a new hobby all in itself so prepare for a large learning curve which can be both very rewarding and frustrating in equal measure depending how adventurous you get and the standards you set yourself. I am spraying things that are turning out better than I ever thought I could, to the extent that I keep raising the bar, anything less than perfection is not acceptable, but being OCD doesn't help with that lol!

Clean up etc is pretty easy, I just use some medical alcohol wipes to clean the brush and shoot some airbrush cleaner through it. I also have some of the fine cleaning brushes in case the nozzles ever get blocked, Iwata medea sell a cleaning kit. 

Any other questions feel free to ask away, it's a hefty outlay so you'll want to get it right. I took a bit of a chance and bit the bullet as I had a decent work bonus that year and couldn't quite decide between the CS and TH so bought both along with the other two. The limited edition 'Kustom' series felt a bit special as they came in an exclusive metal case and had larger cups and triggers. I don't know how much longer they are available for and I have read that some no longer come with the special case. They also come with the water vapour filter which I don't believe the stock versions come with. If you buy more than one brush, consider the quick release valves on the air supply for not much money which allow you to swap over guns with minimum aggro.

Cheers

Nito

[78Triumph]

What kind of paint are you guys using to airbrush lexan bodies?

[Nitomor]

I'm using Createx 'Auto Air' and 'Wicked' range of paints. http://www.createxcolors.com/ 

They're great on lexan because they are flexible so don't come off in impacts etc. It has been really durable on my Hornet basher. I spray some clear coat over the paint on the underside of the shell just to give some more protection to the paint against water, stones etc.

Auto Air Sparkelescent paints

 

Auto Air Wicked paints

Finally, Alclad paints come out amazingly on Lexan for chrome/metal parts... http://www.alclad2-online.co.uk/ 

[d4dawg]

SuperChamp85, I recommend a small spray gun for painting large areas because airbrushes are not designed to spray a wide pattern. Moving the airbrush further away to achieve a large pattern is a mistake because the paint already dries before it hits the surface, you will end up with a very rough surface. I'm generally not a fan of airbrushes with a fan cap conversion because there is no air adjustment for the fan pattern. But I think for our 1/10 bodies, the TH as recommended by Nito is fine. I personally am more interested in the updated TH2 model. Search YouTube for a couple of comparison videos between the TH and TH2. Although the TH2 is still a "fan cap conversion" airbrush, the head designs are completely different. Unfortunately, depends on where you are, the TH2 seems to have very limited availability outside of Japan.

 

[78Triumph]

Those Auto Air paints look really interesting!  I may have to try those!

[Nitomor]

That's a really good vid above. Dawg is spot on with what he says, I did have issues with rough surface until I reduced the paint sufficiently with a reducer (auto air) that keeps the paint from drying too quickly which helped a lot. Lexan is really easy to paint, hard shells are much harder because texture etc doesn't matter on lexan and clear coating is probably the hardest bit to master, again on lexan it's the underside to clear so finish is not important. Make sure you back a lexan shell with a dark or light primer depending on the colour you want. The createx sparklescent paints can be translucent and will give a very different shade depending on light or dark primer.

The G5 would be a great choice too, especially if you're just doing shells. Make sure your compressor specs are up to whatever gun/brush you choose.

TH2 looks interesting too, I see it has a slightly larger 0.6mm setup.

Have fun whatever you go for, you won't go far wrong with Iwata's