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Kingfisher

Lipo sizes and wire connections

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I'm looking to get my first Lipo battery and am wondering if there is a certain physical size everyone chooses to fit in their cars, or do you just run whatever you can make fit? 

Some of these batteries come with the connectors permanently installed to the battery like this:

38498.jpg

 

....and some have plug in type wires where you solder the connector onto the end of bare wires, like this:

 

51840_1_m.jpg

 

Which is better? Is it personal preference here, and if so, which connectors are preferred?

I feel like after reading all of the Lipo info posted here, there's still too many choices making one single choice confusing, and the only way to really soak up the info is to get a battery and learn from there.

 

 

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I'm by no means an expert, but I've a mix of lipos with permanent wires and with removable connectors.

I have those by happen-chance, as the removable ones are saddle batteries I bought to see what they were. Handy for neater smaller applications.

For connectors, I use Deans type. I know a lot of people are fans of XT60s, but anything is better than the Tamiya ones which apparently don't cope too well with the higher current. 

If you're looking to dip your toes (and already have a lipo charger), then I'd recommend one of these first: https://www.modelsport.co.uk/core-rc-4000mahr-7-4v-30-60c-2s-lipo/rc-car-products/388538

From my experience they fit nicely into Tamiya battery compartments, whereas other lipos might be too big etc.

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I typically run "shorty" LiPos with built-in bullet connectors, like the second picture shown.  On the ESC I just solder on two male bullet connectors and protect them with heat shrink.  The batteries came with charging cables and balance leads, so plugging them into my charger was straightforward.

Here's what I have:

The power supply plugs right into the B6 charger.  The charging lead included with the battery needs two male bullet connectors soldered onto it, then it can plug into the charger directly.  The B6 can balance charge up to 5A, discharge up to 1A, put a storage charge on the battery, etc.  It also supports other chemistries like NiCd (obsolete), NiMH (old-school), and lead acid.

Most of my 1/10 buggies and touring cars run shorties and brushless motor systems.  I cut some stiff foam to fill in the gaps in the battery tray so the battery doesn't slide around.  Certain models with chassis designed for NiCd/NiMH stick packs will still work with hard case LiPos if you replace the plastic battery strap with a TA05 carbon fiber battery strap (DB01/DB01R, TB03, TA05V2).  Other buggies and touring cars will take the LiPos directly (TRF201, TB04, TA06, TA07).

I still run old-school brushed electronics and NiMH batteries in my CR01, Clod Buster, Wheely King, F103GT, F104W, and Group C.  Either the discharge requirements aren't that high or the chassis were designed when batteries weighed more, and they perform better with the extra weight.  Sometimes older tech is still just fine.  In these cases I'm using NiMH stick packs with Tamiya connectors still.

Anyhow, that's what works for me...

 

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You can use a tamiya connector with a 2s lipo. I have been doing it with 2 of my cars with castle brushless systems. Anything over 2s they will melt. 

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Both are fine. I have the shown upper Turnigy batteries for my Traxxas models. A really good battery.
It is a bit easier if battery compartment space is really tight to use batteries with the connectors on. It helps to get the battery out of the compartment.

If there is enough space, either will do.  

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Mine all have the bullet plugs on the battery, and then I either plug in some discharge leads to connect to the ESC with xt60 or tamiya plugs (bashers) or have bullets wired to the ESC (racers). No idea if there is any real world difference when using something like an xt60 plug, and I've seen guys running 4s batt in 8th scale with deans plugs and no issues, but plugging directly into the battery is'better'. It probably matters in mod class with low turn motors and turbo/boost drawing s lot of current.

I haven't tried either my hardcase or shorty packs in my rere's, the TT02B and Kyoshos take them fine though. Thise rounded stick packs Jupiter linked to look good though for bashing in an older chassis

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get the shorties..they'll fit in anything....get the wires already coming out of the lipo ...solder the connector of choice to lipo ...4000mah is a lot for bashing but, you can go higher if wanted ...

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13 hours ago, skinned said:

get the shorties..they'll fit in anything....get the wires already coming out of the lipo ...solder the connector of choice to lipo ...4000mah is a lot for bashing but, you can go higher if wanted ...

Will the shorty LiPo's fit in cars that are designed to take round sided NiCd/NiMh stick packs ??  (eg, TA02, TA03, M01, M02, M03 etc?)

 

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11 minutes ago, Backlash said:

Will the shorty LiPo's fit in cars that are designed to take round sided NiCd/NiMh stick packs ?? 

Yes/No

Yes they will, but, as they are so much smaller, they'll required packing to stop them moving about, in something like a boomerang where the stick is just held in the centre,you'd need to cable tie some foam each side. Although you can get super shorty's around half the size, so potentially run 4s in the space of a 2s 🙄😁

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4 hours ago, Backlash said:

Will the shorty LiPo's fit in cars that are designed to take round sided NiCd/NiMh stick packs ??  (eg, TA02, TA03, M01, M02, M03 etc?)

 

ok...they'll fit in almost anything....OP did not say what car/truck ....

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9 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

Yes/No

Yes they will, but, as they are so much smaller, they'll required packing to stop them moving about, in something like a boomerang where the stick is just held in the centre,you'd need to cable tie some foam each side. Although you can get super shorty's around half the size, so potentially run 4s in the space of a 2s 🙄😁

You had to say Boomerang didn't you...you could also fit a third where the resistor used to go, or do you stop at 5s?

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58 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

You had to say Boomerang didn't you...you could also fit a third where the resistor used to go, or do you stop at 5s?

Brushed esc will only take 4s......🙄

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For the standard brick style lipos, anything around and definitely under 5000mah will typically fit in most modern tamiya cars, and many older ones. I use the deans connectors, mostly by default but i like them. I find it useful to pick one style of connector, and then buy a lot of male and female plugs to solder up when you inevitably find a killer deal on something without your preferred plug. Deans are pretty easy to solder once you do it a few times too.

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I have a wide range of cars with different battery compartments, and I know there is no 1 easy solution.

many of the rounded shaped lipos designed to be like a tamiya pack are slightly larger and don’t fit anyway. 

Ive ended up with a large number of soft case lipos as they are a touch smaller and can be shoehorned into most kits.

When buying lipos don’t be tempted to buy cheap packs, they won’t last very well unless you use them continuously. Lipo battery’s are a really tricky purchase because price doesn’t always mean a better pack, and neither does brand. I’ve had phenomenal success with nvision 3700mah 7.4v 30c soft packs, power, longevity, run time have been amazing. Where as the nvision 4500mah 45c stick style packs have been junk from day one.

There is 3 things that dictate how long your pack lasts before it puffs up.

1. Don’t over discharge, no further than 3v per cell 3.4, if you want to be careful.

2. Charge using balance mode at least every second charge.

3. Never store battery’s either fully charged or discharged. Both will lead to premature failure of the pack. (Severe swelling) generally a charge between 40-80% is ideal, some saying 50%. I like to store Myn with a float voltage around 3.8-3.9v per cell.

Deciding what will fit in your car is always the hardest bit, and as mentioned above many cars are designed for 350g nimh packs. Where most lipos sit at 200-250g. That 100g less weight can really mess with suspension settings, especially on road cars or off road where a weight balance is required.

As for connectors, since I have a wide range of cars, I like to use xt-90. It’s a bit overkill on some of our tamiyas, but it’s a easy connector to solder and usually easy to get in and out. 

 

 

4F6B2A04-607D-4601-96DD-DFA8FB6A7C12.jpeg

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On 9/27/2017 at 9:09 AM, speedy_w_beans said:

The Imax B6 is on my list to get. That little bit of info just saved me from making a whole new thread. Thanks for the entire informative post.

 

4 hours ago, Driveforfun said:

For the standard brick style lipos, anything around and definitely under 5000mah will typically fit in most modern tamiya cars, and many older ones. I use the deans connectors, mostly by default but i like them. I find it useful to pick one style of connector, and then buy a lot of male and female plugs to solder up when you inevitably find a killer deal on something without your preferred plug. Deans are pretty easy to solder once you do it a few times too.

That's a good plan. No need to have all different batteries and connectors on different cars.

1 hour ago, Juls1 said:

I have a wide range of cars with different battery compartments, and I know....

Good info. Thank you for posting. 

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Ok, I got a charger, a battery charging box, a 3S lipo, and have my wire connectors sorted out. All I have left to do is read the manual on how to use the charger. I've seen posts where people talk about charging right before use, or doing a storage charge and have some questions regarding that.

  • How soon before use should I charge it?
  • What is a storage charge? 
  • When should I do a storage charge?
  • How long can I leave the battery fully charged, or in storage charge before I need to put it back on the charger? 
  • Is it a fire hazard when fully charged and sitting idle on a shelf, or only during charging?
  • What settings or rate should I charge the battery? It's a 3S  / 6000mah / 65C.

 

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I charge mine as close to using them as possible. If i'm going to the track in the afternoon, then charge in the morning. I do charge them the night before if its an early start the next day. The longest I've left a battery charged is about a week.

Storage charge is when you charge them to about 3.9v per cell which is like a resting voltage. My carger has a storage function so it does it for me when i select that mode.

I storage charge as soon as practical after getting home from using them, which can be that afternoon or the next day. As i only really use mine for racing they are pretty much at the right voltage anyway after a race so i coukd get away without doing it. If bashing then you could have run them quite low so would need to do it as sson as you can.

I think storage charge means you can leave them for ages, ie you coukd do it at the end of summer and then leave them until spring happily. I wouldn't keep them fully xharged for any length of time.

My charger charges at 1C, so would charge yours at 6amps. 1C is safe, 2C is probably fine though.

 

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5 hours ago, Kingfisher said:

Ok, I got a charger, a battery charging box, a 3S lipo, and have my wire connectors sorted out. All I have left to do is read the manual on how to use the charger. I've seen posts where people talk about charging right before use, or doing a storage charge and have some questions regarding that.

  • How soon before use should I charge it?
  • What is a storage charge? 
  • When should I do a storage charge?
  • How long can I leave the battery fully charged, or in storage charge before I need to put it back on the charger? 
  • Is it a fire hazard when fully charged and sitting idle on a shelf, or only during charging?
  • What settings or rate should I charge the battery? It's a 3S  / 6000mah / 65C.

 

Charge as close to actual use as possible.  Be sure to use the balance charging mode; it makes sure each cell in the battery pack is charged equally.

Storage charge is basically charging or discharging the battery so that all cells are at an intermediate voltage, like 3.8V.  LiPo cells don't want to be stored for long periods of time at full charge or full discharge; it shortens the life of each cell.  By storing the battery at 50% charge you can leave it on the shelf for a few months at a time.  I usually check my batteries and do a storage charge once every three months if they are not being used.

You should do a storage charge once you expect to put the toys away for a few days or more.  Generally I use the storage charge function if the battery is going to sit for more than a week.

Generally it's not recommended to leave a LiPo fully charged for long periods of time because it tends to shorten its life.  I'm also not comfortable with leaving a battery fully charged because that's the state where some amount of swelling occurs and that's when the greatest risk of a cell failure/fire occurs.  I keep everything in a storage charge state until I'm planning to drive.

A conservative point of view is a battery fire could happen anytime.  There have been posts here and on other forums of battery fires happening during charging and even hours or days after fully charging.  Never leave a charging battery unattended; keep an eye on it and have a plan if you hear a pop and start to see smoke.  In my view, never store a battery fully charged either.  Always examine your batteries for excessive swelling; it's easy with soft packs and harder with hard case packs.  I will sometimes squeeze the hard case and judge how much resistance I'm feeling; in one extreme case I had a hard case split and it was obvious the cells had swollen.  Swollen cells are a warning sign; they leave my house and get thrown outside immediately.

Normal charge rates are 1C; if you have a 6000 mAh pack (6 Ah), then a 1C charge rate is 6A.  Sometimes racers will charge at a higher rate to artificially heat the cells and get a slight capacity and resistance edge, but for general conservative use just stick with 1C or less.

I generally buy batteries with the highest discharge rating possible; the internal resistance is lower which means the battery will stay cooler during use and during charging.  I periodically feel my batteries during use and charging and don't expect them to feel more than barely warm to the touch.  65C continuous / 130C burst discharge rating is great for anything 1/10 scale.

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I think I got this right. I set it to Balance Charge. Put in 3S for the battery, and when I went to set the Amps, it would only allow me to go up to 5 Amps. I don't see how to choose 1C on the charger, or instruction manual. I went with 5A, and started the charging process. It's showing a number a bit lower than 5A during charging. 

39237515822_a532e194d6_b.jpg

 

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5a is plenty for charging, what you'll find is that amperage starts to drop as the pack nears fully charged (usually about 85%) until it's fully charged so I wouldn't worry about that. 

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On 28/09/2017 at 9:54 AM, Wooders28 said:

Although you can get super shorty's around half the size, so potentially run 4s in the space of a 2s 🙄😁

Actual pic of @Wooders28 taken recently 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

 

Ep8wV_PerfectlyClear.jpg

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53 minutes ago, Kingfisher said:

it would only allow me to go up to 5 Amps.

5A is the B6 maxed out, you need to spend a fair bit of cash to get alot higher.

55 minutes ago, Kingfisher said:

I don't see how to choose 1C on the charger, or instruction manual.

1C is a term we (rc lot,maybe others?) use for charge and discharge rates. It's algebra! (See, you do use algebra when you leave school! 🙄) , 1 x Capacity of the battery , so your 6000mah can be charged upto 6amps (but 5 is your max atm). The max discharge Amps is the C rating printed on the battery, so a 6000mah 100c battery is good for 600Amps! (Wonder why we need to store them carefully 🤔😁) 

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