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Fuijo

From TB-01 to TA07 PRO, 15 years upgrade overnight

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On 18.10.2017 at 12:50 PM, GooneyBird said:

Hey, I know that car! 

Getting it to handle (for anyone who wants to try the same) basically involved making the weight work to our advantage. The car is heavy, yes, but not much more than a comparably-equipped TT01E, a car I know well. However, unlike a TT, the weight tends to slosh around a lot more. Blame short arms and long dampers. This meant initially that the car was quite a sloppy mess. 

The first step to anything is getting the proper tires. When I first laid eyes on the car it had a very pretty set of Enzo 5-spokes clad in Tamiya-spec rubber. Very pretty, and very useless. The de-facto standard tire at this track for touring cars is the Sorex 28. They come pre-mounted on rather unattractive white dish wheels, but boy, do they grip. Also, they last for a full season, and are rather affordable for what they are. Win. 

Then came disconnecting the sway-bars. Why, I hear you ask? Well, they were preventing full droop. With such a heavy car you want the weight to help you with traction (think stadium truck), both front and rear. This meant giving it quite a lot of droop to combat understeer on-power, and off-power oversteer. This helped a great deal.

Next up was camber, which we set at (if I remembered correctly) around 1 degree. The short arms, combined with a low mounting point on the chassis (the car's ride height was far lower than Tamiya ever intended) meant that the upper arm was far from parallel to the ground, and there was a lot of camber gain when (not if, when) the chassis leaned into a turn. Going to fairly upright wheels when stationary combatted the (probably rather extreme) camber angles they had in turns, giving the car as much rubber to work with as possible.

Next: rear toe. Initially the car had the wheels pointing nearly straight, probably good for tail-happy rally driving, not so much for indoor on-road carpet running. @Fuijo found a hopup rear arm set that gave the car around 2 degrees of rear toe. Perfect.

This made the car rather drivable. As @Fuijo points out this car will never beat any newer cars which are built specifically for carpet, but for what is essentially a rally car with short, stubby arms it worked rather well. It felt like a slightly heavier version of my TT Cup Racer, which is probably the best one can achieve with this platform.

Really cool thread. As an owner of a rather old Tamiya car (TL-01), I can relate to your pains. I have been lucky enough to be able to keep my car built only with tamiya parts, but I am terrified to run it as aggressively as I used (I ran TCS a few years back against TTs and gave them a pretty good run for their money), since I have broken a few parts that can be hard/impossible to find.

On of those items are the long span suspension arms which brings me to your post. The TBevo arms you are using look almost identical. I see the stabilizer mount is a bit different but this could be worked around. A thousand times thank you for this super useful piece of info!

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Step 9. Assembly of the diffs.

The kit includes some 900 oil to go inside the diffs. But I was advised to put some 2000 in the front to start with, then maybe later when I get used to the car,

put in some 500000 or even a spool.

@GooneyBird also advised me not to be shy with the o-ring grease to help prevent leaks.

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The rear diff went together smoothly. I topped up the oil to the upper edge of the small bevel gears, put the two halves together and tightened up the screws.

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With the front one however, I made a bit of a mess. I probably fitted the two halves together too quickly, not allowing time for the large bevel gear to displace

the thicker 2000 oil inside the diff, so it just oozed out from between the diff halves.

I probably should have just rested the upper half on top and allowed it to very slowly sink into the oil.

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I spent at least an hour with bits of kitchen paper wrapped around tweezers trying to clean it off, but I don't think anything short of

spraying it in brake cleaner is going to get it all off unfortunately. And I dare not do that in case some gets inside.

I should probably strip it down, clean everything up and start again. But life's too short to stuff a mushroom as they say, so I'm going to leave it as it is

and only worry about it if it becomes a major problem.

You can see a few gooey bits on the belt teeth still, but it doesn't look too bad. So as long as it doesn't keep leaking, it should be ok I hope.

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You have no idea how many times that happened when I (re)built a diff for the 419. Don't worry about it, any excess oil will get flung off after a minute or so, and with such minute amounts still on the diff you'll be hard-pressed to find where it went.

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1 hour ago, GooneyBird said:

You have no idea how many times that happened when I (re)built a diff for the 419. Don't worry about it, any excess oil will get flung off after a minute or so, and with such minute amounts still on the diff you'll be hard-pressed to find where it went.

That's reassuring thanks. :)

 

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Step 10. Fitting the motor mount and routing the drive belt in the chassis.

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Step 11. Fitting the diffs and diff covers.

I was very glad to have a thread tap on hand for this step. Cutting the threads was hard work even so.

 

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Step 12. Assembly of the steering linkage.

The photo does show the wrong bearings.Oooops!

The adjusters required some brutality to get them to start on the turnbuckles.

 

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Step 13. Assembly of the servo link, and fitting the steering linkage assembly.

Sorry, no pic of the servo link parts, I got carried away and forgot.

 

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Step 14. Attaching the front stiffeners.

Fitting these really helped straighten out the front of the chassis. Shimming the front arms before this step would have been pointless.

I have a feeling that fitting the stiffeners to the rear will really sort out those somewhat tight-fitting rear arms leaving next to no play.

 

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What shock oil are you going to run in your TA07? I'm leaning towards just the standard kit supplied oil but wondering if I should go for a bit heavier. 

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2 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

What shock oil are you going to run in your TA07? I'm leaning towards just the standard kit supplied oil but wondering if I should go for a bit heavier. 

I'm going to use the supplied 400 oil too to start with.

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Step 15. Assembly of the front axles.

After drilling and tapping the grub-screw holes in the carriers, I ran the 2.5mm drill through the suspension-pin holes to clear the swarf. I got most of it out, but it's a bit of a fiddle.

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Step 16. Attaching the front axle assemblies.

I applied moly grease where suggested in the manual, though I might come to regret that later when it mixes with bits of rubber and traction fluid and makes a mess.

 

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I managed to get the turnbuckle the wrong way around on the upper left suspension arm. Oooops again! I've corrected it now.

 

And even worse, I managed to use the rear suspension pins on the front. That's why they stick out a bit. I didn't even notice they were different lengths.

I must pay more attention! See the next pic.

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Step 17. Attaching the rear stiffeners.

Fitting these sorted out the back end of the chassis as I'd hoped they would. Not only did the rear arms move freely with almost no play, but they also stopped the drive-belt

from rubbing on the battery retainer post in the middle of the chassis, leaving an appreciable gap.

The accuracy of the plastic parts really is remarkable. The plastic model company indeed!

 

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Step 18. Assembly of the rear axles.

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Step 19. Attaching the rear axle assemblies.

Plastic shims! I'd have sniggered a little at the thought of that before building this kit. Not so much now.

 

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Glad to see the 'good' C-hubs are included. They're the same part-fit as the TRF419s, but are made from 'normal' plastic. The TRF one's are made out of reinforced plastic, and they tend to break easily. I've de-hopped-up the TRF to fit the same C-hubs as they're more durable.

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Step 20. Assembly of the dampers.

I had to use o-ring grease on the tension adjuster o-ring, as I was worried about cross-threading it trying to fit it dry.

E-ring tool to the rescue on this step, but they do provide 2 spares in case of catapulting them across the room.

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Masses of grease applied to the x-rings as well to try to avoid catching them on the threads.

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Step 21. Filling the dampers.

No fancy tools for this, but I have some long springs that will serve to let them sit for a while to ensure all the air bubbles have gone.

I had to be a bit careful for the pics. Knocking one over would have been unfortunate.

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Step 22. Fitting the springs to the dampers.

The provided springs seem to have a yellow mark on them. It probably means something, but don't ask me what. :)

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Step 23. Attaching the rear dampers to the chassis.

The photo shows the rough side of the plastics rather than the skin-deep Audi-style finish on the other side.:rolleyes:

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Step 24. Attaching the front dampers to the chassis.

Displaying the ergonomic, tactile side of the plastic (or some such nonsense). Ok, it does look nice I admit, I'm just a bit jaded by seeing this finish on marketing-engineered full-size cars.

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I think I'm starting to get there. Electrics next!

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Step 25. Centring  the servo and attaching the servo saver.

Nice to get a high-torque servo-saver as standard.

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Step 26. Fitting the motor.

I'm going with the standard 20T pinion to begin with, giving an FDR of 6.58. About the same as I was running on my TB-01.

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Step 27. Fitting the spur gear cover.

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Step 28. attaching the servo to its mount.

I wasn't able to fit the spacers, and I only just got it in there.

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Step 29. Attaching the servo to the chassis.

I had to lengthen the servo turnbuckle by quite a bit to make up for the missing spacers.

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Step 30. Fitting the remaining electrics.

No problems getting it in there, but the TEU302BK's huge power switch was probably not what the designers had in mind.

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Step 31. Fitting the motor guard and remaining chassis stiffeners.

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Steps 32 and 33 are not applicable to this build.

 

Step 34. Attaching the rear wheels and body posts.

I'm going to use aluminium hexes instead of the kit plastic ones, as the wheels need to come on and off so often.

I'm not actually going to fit the wheels at this point. The chassis needs to go on the alignment gauges first.

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Step 35. Fitting the front wheels, body posts and bumper.

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Step 36. Fitting the battery retaining plates.

Amazingly my battery fit with no problems. Using just one of the spacers on the vertical retainer, and no foam added on the horizontal retainers.

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Step 37. Fitting the battery door and antenna post.

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Step 38. Attaching the body supports.

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Well, that's the build finished. It just needs setting up now and the wheels can be fitted. Then I just need to get my somewhat beaten-up track body to fit

the new body-post locations, and it's ready to go.

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Judging by the looks of things, the rear body posts should be in the same location as your TB (and TTs/TLs). The front body post location seems to be the same as the TRF419.

Do you still have that white PF Dart? Remove the wing and overlay both bodies on top of one another for a template. :D

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The rears were a few mm out, but the body really is towards the end of its life, so I just cut out the wheel arches a bit with the lexan shears.

It doesn't look pretty, but until I get used to it I think I'm better off with an already heavily damaged body.

Looking forward to trying it at the track! :D

 

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Just to conclude the thread, a couple of pics with everything set up and ready to go.

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Have you driven it yet? What are your first impressions, especially compared to the TB01?

I briefly drove mine today but didn't have the space to really try it out, it was more that forst test to make sure it works as you expect and it goes well. Turns in well and accelerates well, I just need more space and some adjustment to the body, its rubbing somewhere. I want to find it before it becomes obvious 

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Yep, I drove it today at the track.

Comparing it to the TB? Well, it's a bit like comparing the handling between a housefly and a rock fired from a catapult. :)

 

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Thanks for posting both of these builds together in the same thread; I enjoyed seeing the differences between them.

Some of the unique hardware bits of the TB01 are interesting to look at -- for example, the steering posts and inner hinge pins.

It's also nice to see a TA07 in the flesh, so to speak.  You did a nice job documenting both builds!

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10 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Thanks for posting both of these builds together in the same thread; I enjoyed seeing the differences between them.

Some of the unique hardware bits of the TB01 are interesting to look at -- for example, the steering posts and inner hinge pins.

It's also nice to see a TA07 in the flesh, so to speak.  You did a nice job documenting both builds!

Thanks Speedy.

There will probably some more technically helpful info on how the TA07 drives next Sunday after @GooneyBird has driven it.

Because the differences between the 2 cars are so extreme, it's going to take me a little while to find out what its limits are.

So I'll leave it to someone experienced enough to drive it to its limits straight away to report on exactly how it drives and handles.

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The yellow markings mean that it's the medium hardness spring from the TRF springset ;)

Red = Soft
Yellow = Medium
Blue = Hard
White = Extra Hard

They've used this colour coding system since the early 90's, making it very easy to remember. It's even the same on the buggy springs :)

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Ok, thanks. The kit comes with the medium ones then.

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8 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Just to clarify, the TB01 kicks the TA07 into touch right?!

Ha ha! Well, in terms of durability it does. Not so much with the lap times.

The TA is about a second faster on a 13 second lap with the same motor/ESC/FDR, and it's not even set up properly yet.

Unfortunately @GooneyBird wasn't able to drive it yesterday, but when he does, he'll be able to get it to go far better than it does (I can make it go) at the moment I'm sure.

 

On 11/1/2017 at 1:22 PM, TwistedxSlayer said:

Gotta get a pic of them side by side :-)

Yes I will do this soon, when I get the current bombsite cleared from my workbench.

I also managed to make another complete TB-01 chassis out of the leftover parts, so I'll likely include that too.

  • Haha 1

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1 hour ago, Fuijo said:

Ha ha! Well, in terms of durability it does. Not so much with the lap times.

The TA is about a second faster on a 13 second lap with the same motor/ESC/FDR, and it's not even set up properly yet.

Unfortunately @GooneyBird wasn't able to drive it yesterday, but when he does, he'll be able to get it to go far better than it does (I can make it go) at the moment I'm sure.

 

Thats pretty impressive, a second faster (and on a really short lap too, thats about 8%) and its still got the setup as per the manual.  Its looking really promising.

Does it have any chatter when you first take off?  Mine does and I can't work it out...

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Well last weekend I ran it as per the manual. Although I measured the droop a bit more accurately than the manual states -  with just how far the screw protrudes from the suspension arm.

Not for a specific value as such, but just to make sure it was the same both sides.

It ran well and was easy to drive. The only thing I noticed was that in the 2 consecutive slow corners the front seemed to roll a bit, and in the fast sweeping corner leading on to the main straight it

was pushing the front a little to understeer. But these were minor niggles. Overall it was fun to drive.

 

This weekend I couldn't stop myself fiddling about. You know, new car and everything. I just couldn't help it. :)

I fitted the stabilisers from the TRF418, but couldn't really see much difference.

I fitted the front spool and moved the motor to the middle position. But this made it steer too much power-on, and too little power-off, which I found harder to control.

I fitted stiffer front springs (blue) to try to correct the minor niggles above, but also couldn't really tell the difference.

To be honest, most of the things I tried either made it worse or made no difference. But you have to remember that I was just randomly experimenting for the fun of it, and as far as setting

these things up goes, I don't really know what I'm doing.

If you can just hang on in there for a little bit until @GooneyBirdhas had a chance to look at it, you'll probably get some good and useful info.

 

I don't really know what you mean by chatter. Is the belt too loose? I've not noticed anything untoward with mine when it takes off. Not sure, sorry.

 

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