Getting weird about realism in my old age

[Saito2]

When I was young, I didn't care what RC cars looked like. They were all awesome. Nowadays, I find myself slightly irked by realism from a technical point of view. Buggies as a whole don't bother me, its trucks. It started with stadium trucks. The King Cab looks fine to me but the slammed/wheels hanging out look of the RC10T or Stadium Blitzer now bother me, which they didn't 20 years ago.

I picked up and restored a vintage Kyosho USA-1 recently. Seeing a monster truck that big in action with 4 wheel independent suspension seemed all wrong. Even the Blackfoot seems off to me now but I'm ok with the Monster Beetle because beetles have 4 wheel independent suspension. I'm not after absolute Bruiser-realism in all my trucks, just similar-to-full-size function I suppose. I know this probably all seems quite weird  but maybe this is where scalers are coming from.

[iluvmud]

1 minute ago, Saito2 said:

When I was young, I didn't care what RC cars looked like. They were all awesome. Nowadays, I find myself slightly irked by realism from a technical point of view. Buggies as a whole don't bother me, its trucks. It started with stadium trucks. The King Cab looks fine to me but the slammed/wheels hanging out look of the RC10T or Stadium Blitzer now bother me, which they didn't 20 years ago.

I picked up and restored a vintage Kyosho USA-1 recently. Seeing a monster truck that big in action with 4 wheel independent suspension seemed all wrong. Even the Blackfoot seems off to me now but I'm ok with the Monster Beetle because beetles have 4 wheel independent suspension. I'm not after absolute Bruiser-realism in all my trucks, just similar-to-full-size function I suppose. I know this probably all seems quite weird  but maybe this is where scalers are coming from.

Very.... especially the monster beetle comment as if you were really into “realism” you’d know that the only way a real monster beetle would exist is to have a beetle body thrown on a truck chassis, basically making it a solid axle..... whatcha thinking now?

[78Triumph]

I hear ya! I’m getting to be more interested in the scale stuff too, and making things look as real as possible.  There’s some amazing scale builds out there people are making.  Some of the sand Scorcher projects I’ve seen on the scale forums are awesome.  It may be my next kit purchase.  

[GooneyBird]

I think there's a definitive rift between motorized models capable of remote radio control (think Sand Scorcher, or tanks), and tools designed to do a specific task and do it well (Think TRF419X).

The first category; yes. A Sand Scorcher should be a (fairly) accurate scale model of a VW Beetle modified as an offroad vehicle (and it is) and from that standpoint I can see your point. However, some RC models aren't really models of anything. They're instruments to allow you, the driver, to do a certain task; to further your skills or to just plain have fun. (At best, both at the same time).

image hosting

The TRF is a scale model, roughly 1:10th scale. It is, however, strictly speaking a model of nothing. The current body is vaguely Ford Mondeo-esque, but it's no scale representation of an existing car. I consider it something akin to a really good golf club, or tennis racket, rather than a scale model capable of remote radio control.

[Saito2]

2 hours ago, iluvmud said:

. whatcha thinking now?

Honestly, I'm thinking perhaps I should have kept my weird peculiarities to myself. At any rate, admitting this odd trend in my interest has no real basis in fact, the Monster Beetle's (or Blackfoot's) tires really aren't anywhere near proper American monster truck tires (66") scaled down to 1/10 scale. You'd have to look at Clod tires for that. Also, after being in aircooled VW culture for about 10 years, I have seen a beetle (albeit, greatly modified) running a 44" tire. Insane, I know. Like I said, its not the lack of total realism that's getting to me. I'm just liking the mechanics to work in the "spirit" of the full size version. Seeing the USA-1 handling and acting like it did was just odd to my eyes, especially since its based off a full size truck. The Clod's mannerisms are perfect. No, real trucks don't have axle mounted engines, but the solid axles and bouncey nature are in the spirit of the real thing.

BTW, none of this is a criticism of any RC vehicle, just my changing taste. As I said buggies don't bother me in the least. Probably because I'm not around the real ones to notice the disconnect. Like 78Triumph said, I'm probably just gaining more interest in scale stuff. 

[Prescient]

3 hours ago, Saito2 said:

When I was young, I didn't care what RC cars looked like. They were all awesome. Nowadays, I find myself slightly irked by realism from a technical point of view. Buggies as a whole don't bother me, its trucks. It started with stadium trucks. The King Cab looks fine to me but the slammed/wheels hanging out look of the RC10T or Stadium Blitzer now bother me, which they didn't 20 years ago.

I picked up and restored a vintage Kyosho USA-1 recently. Seeing a monster truck that big in action with 4 wheel independent suspension seemed all wrong. Even the Blackfoot seems off to me now but I'm ok with the Monster Beetle because beetles have 4 wheel independent suspension. I'm not after absolute Bruiser-realism in all my trucks, just similar-to-full-size function I suppose. I know this probably all seems quite weird  but maybe this is where scalers are coming from.

Dont forget, the Monster Beetle, Blackfoot, Bush devil, king blackfoot etc etc are not monster trucks, if you look at the boxes from the vintage right through to WT01, they are described as racing trucks, pick up trucks, racing pickups etc which puts them in much better scale albeit still not fixed axle.

The only Tamiya Monster Trucks stated as such really are the Clod (87' & Super), TXT(1&2) and Juggernaut

[Juggular]

I hated Bigwig when it came out.  Especially the big yellow hump.  But now I have a re-re.  I like RC cars with a driver because it gives a modicum of realism.  Age does strange things to your perspective.  I'm just glad Emma Watson looks good to me.  Imagine David Hasselhoff starting to look delicious (not that there is anything wrong with that).  

[Grastens]

1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

... I'm probably just gaining more interest in scale stuff. 

I wonder what your opinions are on the TXT-2 Agrios. While the stadium-truck style body seems weird, there is at least one contemporary monster truck running a similarly-styled shell (thinking of Bigfoot 18), and the chassis is still regarded as more-realistic monster truck chassis compared to the other independent-suspension offerings out there.

Not the best example, perhaps, but an unusual one, and still a model that functions a bit like the real thing. Would the Agrios appeal to realism sensibilities on principle, or is the greater taste for realism confined to a specific type of RC vehicle? (for instance, if you had to pick any touring sedan and buggy, you might not care much about the touring sedan's function, but your buggy has to look and perform like the real thing)

I am not attempting to make a point about anything; rather, the discussion made me think of the Agrios, and I would be interested to hear what you think about the model from this perspective. And hey, this puts some "weird" into "getting weird about scale realism!"

[Ann3x]

Wheels & tyres are too small on the agrios.... chassis is fine tho.

[gravetxt-1]

@Saito2 I hear you buddy I have spent over twelve months painstakingly building a retro inspired monster truck (Clawing Dead) almost finished... have already started work on another retro build which will be TXT-2 gearbox and axles mounted into RC4WD Gelande II chassis plates.

So will be ladder frame style build keep your eyes peeled build thread will be incoming

[Prescient]

1 hour ago, Ann3x said:

Wheels & tyres are too small on the agrios.... chassis is fine tho.

The Agrios is closer to 1/12th (1:11.4) scale than 1/10 measuring up the body against Bigfoot 18 which it is based off. When you check the dimensions of the racing cut narrower width profile on the Firestone's used for the world record jump at the parallel scale they come in bang on at 1:11.4. It's why when you put the TXT-1 wheels on it, the TXT-2 looks out of scale since they are too wide.

Biggest issue with the TXT-2 wheels are the rims which are not right and too tall a diameter. Spray them black and cut the body higher in the arches and it's all good.

[Prescient]

Quick snapshot from my truck room which shows a lot aren't monster trucks it's just what the fan base call them. It's only the Clod and Jugg plus rather randomly the Super Blackfoot. My boxed TXTs are in the loft but they say monster truck too. Size comparison in next post.

 

[Prescient]

TXT, Jugg & Clod Vs a lowly Blackfoot Xtreme. 1st photo is my runner with pinspikes the 2nd is my upgraded runner with 135mm chevrons. 

Pretty accurate relative scale for a 1/10 pickup Vs a proper 1/10 Monster Truck.

[Saito2]

Interestingly, the Blackfoot and King Blackfoot are not listed as monster trucks on the box but the Super Blackfoot is called a monster pick up truck on the box. Why? Who knows? To answer Grastens, I love the Agrios. It looks and performs realistically. Personally, I built a hybrid truck out of it and a TXT-1 because I like the cantilever era of full size trucks kicked off by Bigfoot 8. Now that long travel shocks are easy to come by for truck builders, cantilevers are no longer needed in the fullsize world, hence the Agrios accurately mimics current trucks. 

I'm not over-the-top about scale. I understand our little RCs are a little wishy-washy when it comes down to it. The Blackfoot body is smaller than the Bruiser's and both are 1/10 scale. Yet, in the real world a Ford F-150 would be bigger than a Toyota not the other way around. Like I said, buggies are free reign for me. I'm not into on-road but I'm irked that the M05 Alpine is FWD and happy that the Minis, appropriately, are. 

And BTW, I love your truck builds Gravetxt-1. The Clawing Dead is turning out great and I anticipate the next build.

[Prescient]

6 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Interestingly, the Blackfoot and King Blackfoot are not listed as monster trucks on the box but the Super Blackfoot is called a monster pick up truck on the box. 

Yer, I had uploaded that one but it dropped so have re uploaded. It's the only one of the Blackfoot trucks to have it. 

I wonder if it was in response to the fans as it's what people called them anyway plus since they had lost the ford licencing on the body they decided to go with it. 

I honestly don't remember seeing them in shops for more than a brief period so maybe it was targeted at the American market where monster trucks were big business. It would explain the very randomly garish box which had that late 80s early 90s neon vibe to it. Probably sat well alongside G2 Transformers on the shelves etc.

Certainly in the UK even by the launch of the Super Blackfoot in 92, RC sales and popularity wasn't where it had been the previous decade. I was one of a handful in my school who was still interested in it by that stage. 

I have always presumed the variations in scale was down to cost and practicality. If all Tamiyas had been Bruiser/Clod Buster pricing which was huge money back then I can't imagine they would have sold in the same way.

It's close enough anyway and the detail in the bodies was always better than the main rivals. Traxxas always looked like they had just vacuum formed their bodies from 2 blocks of wood

[Kingfisher]

To me, the RC car body has to look as close to the real cars body as possible or I am not interested. I live in Texas. I've seen everything put up on giant monster tires. Smart cars, police cars, and motorcycles to name a few. So, anything lifted is fine, just so long as the body matches that of a real car. I don't like most of the Traxxas trucks or the Redcat racing RC's because they're not modeled after a real vehicle. To me, they look like something a child would want. With all that said, buggies are the exception. 

 

18 hours ago, Juggular said:

 Imagine David Hasselhoff   

[markbt73]

I'm right there with you. And it's drivetrain configurations that seem to bother me the most. The ORV chassis gets a pass, becuase I've had so many of them over the years that it's like that weird friend whom you've just gotten used to over the years. I love that gawky old thing.

But when they (Tamiya or other manufacturers) come this close to getting it right and then get lazy about something, it really bugs me. The original XC line is a perfect example. Two SUVs with independent front suspension and a live rear axle: Mitsubishi and Isuzu. Cool. And a Honda CRV, which should have independent rear suspension, on the same chassis? Wait a minute. And... a Jeep YJ Wrangler? A Jeep? Come on. Then, years later, you can finally get that body on a chassis with live axles at both ends... and a wheelbase that's about a mile too long, all done up like some cheap Nikko offering on gigantic tires. It would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to shorten the High-Lift chassis, put a single-speed gearbox in the middle, and offer it as a mildly modified but still scale Jeep, with leaf springs. I would have bought one. Maybe more than one.

And don't get me started on wheel lug count on scale trucks (I'm looking at you, GMade and RC4WD). Japanese and GM 4x4 trucks have 6-lug wheels, but nearly everything else has 5 or 8. You get the chassis so close, and then mess up this one tiny detail?

This stuff does bother me more as time goes on, maybe because actually driving the things is becoming secondary to me. You don't care about scale accuracy when you're trying to see how high it can jump, but if you're after that perfect action shot on top of a rock pile you just drove up, the little details stick out like a sore thumb if they're wrong.

[Kingfisher]

@markbt73 has some interesting points, and I also agree. The Front Wheel Drive Miata bothered me so much that I put the body of one on M06 chassis.

[StrokerBoy]

You can't help what you like and don't like.  We're all different, and that's a very good thing.

Personally, I don't get buggies at all.  Any of 'em.  They all look like random kids toys to me, from some futuristic cartoon.  Maybe if I'd grown up in the Californian desert instead of Yorkshire then I'd feel differently.  I also really hate bodyshells that supposedly replicate a specific real vehicle but actually just look more like a melted margarine tub with some stickers on (see below).  If you can't get it right, don't bother.  I like realism too, that's why I'm a Tamiya fan.  The mechanicals I'm less bothered about.

And don't paint a shell without masking the windows F.F.S, how is the driver supposed to see out ?

And now, to completely undermine my own argument... my favourite RC of all time is the original Lancia Rally, with the silly wide stance.  The later more-realistic 037 doesn't do it for me at all.  So my opinion is essentially worthless.  Carry on !

[richard.tufty]

On 11/10/2017 at 9:56 PM, Ann3x said:

Wheels & tyres are too small on the agrios.... chassis is fine tho.

I agree, I love my Agrios, but I had to put Clod wheels on it otherwise it just looks a bit off to my eyes.

[TurnipJF]

Hmm. An interesting debate. I'm not quite sure where I stand on it. On one hand I have my Mad Bull and Aqroshot on Mad Bull rubber, neither of which look like any fullsize vehicle that I know of, but then I also have my F103 and M-03, both of which appear quite realistic by comparison. It is hard to quantify the effect of the relative realism or lack thereof on my enjoyment of the cars as each is so different from the other.

 

The argument that some cars are models while others are tools makes sense, however at the same time my F1 is a tool, but also a kinda realistic model, at least compared to a TC "jelly mould". And thinking about it, the idea of racing a model as opposed to a tool does add something to the enjoyment of the activity, at least for me. But then winning adds enjoyment too. Would I sacrifice realism for performance? I don't know - maybe.

 

As for the bashing side, I enjoy watching videos of scale/trail rigs filmed at a low angle so that they look real, but I imagine that if I put that level of detail into a model, I wouldn't want to run it for dear of damaging it. However I have no such qualms about the Mad Bull. But would I enjoy it even more if it looked a bit more realistic? I don't know - maybe.

 

Does this post add anything to the debate? I don't know - probably not...