Tower Hobbies and Tamiya

[78Triumph]

I was suprised to see a good majority of Tamiya kits are either backordered or out of stock at tower hobbies.  Seems like holiday sales would be something you wouldn't want to drop the ball on, what do you suppose happened?  I noticed rcmart has a lot of out of stock kits as well. Thoughts?  Is tamiya not able to produce enough to meet their demand?

[Saito2]

Some think Tower Hobbies, or rather their parent company Hobbico, are circling the drain. I won't go that far, but they are hurting financially. Traxxas is suing them and so Tower has naturally dropped the whole Traxxas line. MIP is leaving them as well. There are other factors as well. I hope they pull out of it as I get most of my kits there and they've treated pretty well over the last decade. BUT, I agree, Tamiya does seem to be out-of-stock at other retailers as well, so I'm not sure what's going on at their end.

[speedy_w_beans]

Might make sense for the mods to merge these threads...

 

[78Triumph]

2 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Some think Tower Hobbies, or rather their parent company Hobbico, are circling the drain. I won't go that far, but they are hurting financially. Traxxas is suing them and so Tower has naturally dropped the whole Traxxas line. MIP is leaving them as well. There are other factors as well. I hope they pull out of it as I get most of my kits there and they've treated pretty well over the last decade. BUT, I agree, Tamiya does seem to be out-of-stock at other retailers as well, so I'm not sure what's going on at their end.

Why is Traxxas suing them?

I hope Tower is able to keep it's head above water and right itself, I order most of kits from them too and they've been around forever.  I also love the fact that the company is 100% employee owned. 

[Saito2]

Well Traxxas (TM) likes to trademark just about anything (TM). They'd probably try to trademark electricity if they could. I think the dispute goes something like this: An Arrma vehicle (which i believe is a Tower house brand) has a suspension similar to the Traxxas Revo. So, Traxxas is suing Arrma hence also Tower/Hobbico. Since Traxxas bit a hand that feeds it, Tower threw the "dog" outside, so to speak . Traxxas also wouldn't allow Tower to use their typical coupon code discounts on their products, probably because Traxxas sells direct market competitively (unlike Tamiya USA, whose prices are typically higher to avoid hurting hobby distributors like Tower or local hobby shops).

[Kingfisher]

If there's something you want and don't want to wait for, compare the prices at omnimodels.com. I've gotten a few kits, bodies, paints, and other parts from them and have no complaints about their service.

[78Triumph]

3 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Well Traxxas (TM) likes to trademark just about anything (TM). They'd probably try to trademark electricity if they could. I think the dispute goes something like this: An Arrma vehicle (which i believe is a Tower house brand) has a suspension similar to the Traxxas Revo. So, Traxxas is suing Arrma hence also Tower/Hobbico. Since Traxxas bit a hand that feeds it, Tower threw the "dog" outside, so to speak . Traxxas also wouldn't allow Tower to use their typical coupon code discounts on their products, probably because Traxxas sells direct market competitively (unlike Tamiya USA, whose prices are typically higher to avoid hurting hobby distributors like Tower or local hobby shops).

Traxxas sux!

[78Triumph]

40 minutes ago, Kingfisher said:

If there's something you want and don't want to wait for, compare the prices at omnimodels.com. I've gotten a few kits, bodies, paints, and other parts from them and have no complaints about their service.

I just checked there too.  All of their Tamiya 1/10 scale electric offroad truck kits are backordered!  I guess it's more on Tamiya's side of things, not the retailers...

[markbt73]

Omnimodels is also Tower/Hobbico. I don't know why there are two sites, or why the prices at Omni are always $5-10 cheaper, but it's the same parent company as far as I know.

What's funny is that back in the eighties, Tamiya was second-fiddle at Tower, because Great Planes was the Kyosho distributor. So you'd get full-page spreads for each Kyosho model, with multiple photos, option parts listed, and two-paragraph descriptions, and the one page in the back that said "Oh yeah, we also have these Tamiya kits."

[Saito2]

I remember those days. I didn't shop Tower in the 80's. Like Mark said, they were all about Kyosho (which, to my young mind at the time, was Tamiya's closest rival). I shopped mostly Omni Models and occasionally Great Northern Hobbies. When I came back to the hobby in the early 2000s, Kyosho was gone altogether from Tower and Omni was now part of Tower (not sure when that happened). Does Tower's ad take up the back eighth of and issue of RC Car Action still?

[ncpantherfan71]

1 hour ago, 78Triumph said:

Traxxas sux!

I don't think Traxxas sux just because they are protective of their name, product, and designs.  It is just smart business.  That's how they have become the top name in RC, with some positive and some negative results.

Great Planes is going through a pretty big restructure.  They are dropping several manufactures product lines and seem to be going through a fairly substantial inventory reduction.  They are no longer the only North America distributor for Team Associated, HPI, and Axial.  According to our sales rep, they are NOT going the way of Novak and closing down.

[78Triumph]

11 minutes ago, ncpantherfan71 said:

I don't think Traxxas sux just because they are protective of their name, product, and designs.  It is just smart business.  That's how they have become the top name in RC, with some positive and some negative results.

Great Planes is going through a pretty big restructure.  They are dropping several manufactures product lines and seem to be going through a fairly substantial inventory reduction.  They are no longer the only North America distributor for Team Associated, HPI, and Axial.  According to our sales rep, they are NOT going the way of Novak and closing down.

I read a quote from someone on another forum that said, "Traxxas are the frat boys of rc"  I though that hit the nail on the head. 

From what I read on some other sites a lot of what Traxxas was trying to do was patent sue other companies on stuff that they really didn't do first, suspension designs that were done before Traxxas was even a company.  There's doing smart business, and then there's doing smart ethical business.

[TurnipJF]

Never let it be said that Traxxas allow ethics to get in the way of profit!

[ncpantherfan71]

I like both Traxxas and Tamiya,  both are great products if used as they were intended.  The original T-Maxx is what really got me back into rc, and as a result, I am collecting several of the older Tamiyas from my youth and a bunch of the re-releases. 

 The hobby industry in the US isn't doing the best.   I work at a small family owned shop that has been in the community for 50 years now.   The larger distributors are cutting margins to the point where we can not buy it for what they are selling it for on line.  I know of at least 5 shops that closed in the last year and half in my state. 

So if Traxxas secured the patent for the Revo suspension setup,  then good for them and they should defend it.  The first time I saw a pic of the Arrma Nero and Fazon the first thing I thought was it looks a lot like a Revo.   Is that any different than Tamiya asking this forum to remove manuals to discontinued kits or stop talking about reproduction decals? 

King RC had a direct copy of the HPI Baja 5b,  all hpi parts were direct fit for replacement.   How many people purchased it over the hpi not caring it was a direct copy.   King RC didn't pay any of the development costs,  but sure made a killing on it.  There are several counterfeit Castle Creation motors all over the auction sites,  and they are being sold as genuine.  I even saw a TRF 417 copy while back and if I remember it was being discussed here or maybe it was rctech, I don't remember for sure,  as a possible substitute.

The low quality,  discount copy products coming out of China being sold for pennies is killing many industries,  not just rc. 

I have been guilty of trying some of the cheap products in the past, but I was disappointed the the lack of proper instructions and poor quality.  Now that I work in a small family shop I really see the negative impact these products have.  In about 2 weeks I will have to tell many people we cannot help them fix the car,  truck, plane,  or quad copter because it is a cheap copy and parts just aren't available.   They will get discouraged and quit the hobby before they even get started. 

Sorry about the long post,  but this is something I see almost every day.  We are loosing the back bone of the hobby with all the mom and pop shops closing.   Next time you have a problem with a kit, esc, reciever call Amazon or that faceless eBay user name to ask for help and see what  you get. 

Edit:  there are some very good users on eBay,  I am not saying all are bad, just a generation with the import product sellers

[TurnipJF]

It is one thing acquiring and defending a patent for something that you invented. It is quite another to acquire one for a system that has been in general use for years, and then suing anyone else who uses it, which AFAIK is what Traxxas are attempting to do.

[Saito2]

I don't have any particular hate for Traxxas products. Some of the designs are old but still sell, so they are/were good designs. I have a used Stampede and Emaxx, but I'd never buy one new for personal ethics reasons. Being from the US makes the Traxxas vs Tower/Arrma issue sticky for me. On one side, the law suit is hurting Tower, a US employee owned company. However, Tower's Arrma brand is an overseas product. On the other side Traxxas is US designed, but overseas manufactured (which is not cool in my book, but not unrealistic in today's tough RC marketplace either).

@ncpantherfan71 Being in the brick in mortar side of things lends interesting and good perspective to this discussion. I've always wondered how LHS felt about Traxxas selling their products directly form their website at competitive prices, essentially, possibly cutting out the LHS as opposed the Tamiya USA who will sells direct to the customer as well, but at a much higher price to avoid cannibalizing LHS sales? Basically, if you HAVE to have a kit and Tamiya USA is the only one who has it in stock, they will sell it to you, but their pricing structure tends to push you to the LHS first.

[ncpantherfan71]

Traxxas direct hasn't made a large impact on us as of yet,  however Towers super saver discounts did.   If they give the customer a $30.00 coupon on a $300.00 kit,  the mail order customer just paid the same price we do.   The markup on kits,  all manufacturers, is very little.  When Traxxas stopped them using coupons it actually helped us.  Great Planes practices have also hurt other manufacturers in the industry.   They dropped Parma and didn't even let them know!   I had to call Parma direct just to find out if they were going out of business!  And it's not just Great Planes,  the other large distributor, Horizon Hobby still carries Traxxas surface products but none of the quad copters because it is competing with their Blade brand.  When the TRX4 was announced Traxxas is the sole distribution source.   Tower could buy to sell,  but could not distribute to shops.   This has had a very positive impact on us,  we are paying the same price Great Planes, Horizon,  A Main,  and everyone. 

Now I don't think Traxxas is perfect.   I really don't care for their practices when it comes to the battery connectors.  I know some of it is an effort to make lipo as safe and idiot proof as possible,  and limit their liability.   When McDonalds can be sued for millions because coffee is hot, it's smart.

The biggest threats to our business are Amazon,  and Hobby King.  I had a customer looking at a Slash 4x4 and we were within a total of 34.00 to the online source,  including tax,  and he said no thanks and walked out. I don't know how any lhs can compete and keep the doors open, lights on, much less operate a track anymore.   Being in the exact same location for 50 years allowed them to build relationships with many of the local rc pilots and train enthusiast.  Those relationships and repeat customers is what is keeping us afloat.

I would honesty like to ask,  how many people went to a small business this Christmas and purchased items, or went to you local hobby shop and asked them to order a kit for you?   Start building a relationship with some of those businesses and if they care about their customers I will guarantee it will be a positive experience for both.

Sorry again,  and I will get off my soap dox now. 😊

[Saito2]

No, no, don't be sorry. This is exactly the kind of perspective from your side of the industry that needs to be told. I too, wondered just what the heck happened to Parma and had to investigate if they had gone out of business or not. I tried very hard to support my last LHS. But in the end, they couldn't make it. A new one opened locally and I buy small supplies, like paint, there. I did try to order parts from him, but the owner said he needed to make a minimum purchase order amount and that it might take months to put together an order with enough items on it to get my parts. That's a tough spot to be in. I'm glad to hear Traxxas direct hasn't impacted you yet. The beauty of brick and mortar is getting a particular kit when you want it. Keep up the good fight.

[Juggular]

11 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

It is one thing acquiring and defending a patent for something that you invented. It is quite another to acquire one for a system that has been in general use for years, and then suing anyone else who uses it, which AFAIK is what Traxxas are attempting to do.

I think the patent office should be more strict when issuing patents.  By definition, patents should be "novel ideas."  The whole concept of the RC field is to copy the real-life counterparts.  How could copying a pushrod suspension from F1 racers be patentable in RC?   I bet Traxxas argued; "well, it's novel because it's an on-road concept applied to off-road."  But if anybody could adopt that idea, it shouldn't be patentable.  Like many of us, I put tiny train lamps as headlights for RC cars.  Had I tried to patent that, patent office just might have issued a patent: "meh, just give patents. Let the competitors sort it out in the courts."  [In reality, Traxxas would've been barely patentable, when mini lamp wouldn't be, but still too easy, imho]

The result of easy patents is hurting the industry instead of protecting it.  It's damaging a domestic online retailer and a domestic manufacturer too as Tower dropped Traxxas.  I hope brick and mortar businesses benefit from this.  But chances are Chinese imports are using this chance to gain the market even further.  

 

[tamiya3speed]

I just want to come in here for a second to give my LHS a shout out. He works mostly with Associated and Losi race kits but dabbles in Tamiya too.  He has always been willing to order anything I have asked for and will check multiple distributors to get me the best price  (without making me haggle).  To the point that I haven't ordered a kit on-line in a year or more.  My only worry is that he is a one man shop and has mentioned he may only do it for a couple more years.  Then I'm not sure what I will do!!  I got my first car an RC10T2 from him!!

[TurnipJF]

Just as a point of interest - where do we stand on brick-and-mortar hobby shops that also sell online, as many do these days?

[Baddon]

4 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

Just as a point of interest - where do we stand on brick-and-mortar hobby shops that also sell online, as many do these days?

Is this not the only hope they have of surviving? esp if not in a large city. I am in N.Ireland and there are only 2 hobby shops I can find, both over an hours drive from Belfast. So I have been buying from Time Tunnel in Scotland and Modelsport in England.