Man1c’s DT03 - Is dead!

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

Well bringing things back on topic and away from the temptations of TRF buggies(!) I did a bit on the buggy today. 

The turnbuckles arrived last week and with a miserable day figured I’d get cracking. 

Now it’s obvious more than just the turnbuckles are in that shot, so, the washers we’ve seen before and are to have a go at remove a bit of the wheel slop at the back and the 3mm O-Rings are for a bit of de-slopping. Was reading @jackdaripper excellent Top Force build and noticed he was using some 3mm O-Rings on the ball joints and liked the look/idea of that and then whilst reading through the manual for my recently acquired Top Force I noticed that Tamiya use a 3mm O-Ring in the outdrives too, so...

The rear then...

Lots of O-Rings in that shot but ended up only using 2 in the outdrives as on the turnbuckles the ball connectors are smaller than the ones we use for shocks and the cup wouldn’t seat properly and popped off far too easily. Never mind.

You can make out the O-Ring in the outdrive here. I did also try adding them to the axles but once all back together I felt it was too tight. How it is however has removed a lot of play.

For those that recall my earlier big post where I swapped the rear end out for the higher end DT02 parts the previous picture shows how there is no longer any binding against the gearbox housing with the turnbuckles fitted.  Result!

I didn’t end up using the washers. Whilst some lateral play still exists, the O-Rings have reduced it considerably and I didn’t want a load of thin spacers between axle pin and hub/bearing. I might revisit this, but happier for now.

On to the front...

No O-Rings in this picture as after the rear I was not sure how many at this point would work. As it happened only two on the axles for the steering rods. Again like the turnbuckle ball connectors the servo connectors were too small to accept the O-Rings and end cups. A thinner O-Ring would solve the issue for all the connectors but I haven’t the time/patience to find the right ones!

All done. Just need the weather to improve now so I can go out and check the steering trim etc. A camber guage is on the cards for purchase too now so I can get both sides dialled equally. Getting serious almost!

The eagle eyed amongst you might notice on the last picture that the shocks have O-Rings on the connectors too. Did all those too but forgot to photo then. 

For reference I needed 10 O-Rings altogether which is one pack (I did get two but obviously things didn’t go according to plan).

2x outdrives.

4x rear shocks.

2x front shocks.

2x front axles/steering rods.

IMO at least all this connection points feel much better now.

Whilst I was playing I moved the ESC and RX about and fitted the RX cover. When I initially built the car the way I attached the ESC meant I couldn’t get the RX cover on and whilst a little thing and possibly of negligible use, I wanted to correct it.

Still super long wires. I may end up shortening them but am currently undecided on the end direction for this buggy regarding ESC/Motor setup so they can remain as they are for the time being.

Part Numbers for anyone interested:

Turnbuckle: 54572

O-Rings: 84196 these were £1.75 delivered. No doubt eBay would have provided cheaper but these were available easily.

Spacers: 53587 like I said, not used but useful certainly at the front.

As always, thanks for reading.

 

 

 

[Effigy3 1267]

Hey, Man1c you're going to want to swap the direction on 1/2 your turnbuckles.  The turnbuckle has a knurled bit to one side of the shoulder nut used for tightening.  That knurled bit indicates which direction the turnbuckle is threaded.  You have yours setup symmetrically, all the knurled bits are to the midline. 

What you need to do is pick a side, starboard or port, for all the knurled portions of the turnbuckle to favor.  I favor the starboard myself.  That way, all the turnbuckles shorten when turned to the stern and elongate when turned to the bow.

It's hard to see on my 201.  Rather than a knurled section, there's a thin little line scored into each turnbuckle.  Hopefully, you can make it out.

 

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

21 minutes ago, Effigy3 said:

Hey, Man1c you're going to want to swap the direction on 1/2 your turnbuckles.  The turnbuckle has a knurled bit to one side of the shoulder nut used for tightening.  That knurled bit indicates which direction the turnbuckle is threaded.  You have yours setup symmetrically, all the knurled bits are to the midline. 

What you need to do is pick a side, starboard or port, for all the knurled portions of the turnbuckle to favor.  I favor the starboard myself.  That way, all the turnbuckles shorten when turned to the stern and elongate when turned to the bow.

It's hard to see on my 201.  Rather than a knurled section, there's a thin little line scored into each turnbuckle.  Hopefully, you can make it out.

 

Cool I’ll investigate that. Sure that’s how the instructions showed them set up tbh. Seriously under the weather at the minute though so possible I’ve messed up!

Got something else to do at some point soon anyway so will correct then. 

[TurnipJF 9192]

The turnbuckle orientation thing is a matter of personal preference. Some racers like them set up so that fore and aft movement lengthens or shortens both sides as Effigy3 says, while others prefer them set like you have them, where clockwise or anticlockwise rotation shortens or lengthens them irrespective of which side you are working on. I have seen both approaches used by experienced racers at my club. There are no strength or performance advantages or disadvantages to either approach - purely a case of picking the approach that makes most sense to you. 

[Granddad Stinky 975]

11 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

The turnbuckle orientation thing is a matter of personal preference. Some racers like them set up so that fore and aft movement lengthens or shortens both sides as Effigy3 says, while others prefer them set like you have them, where clockwise or anticlockwise rotation shortens or lengthens them irrespective of which side you are working on. I have seen both approaches used by experienced racers at my club. There are no strength or performance advantages or disadvantages to either approach - purely a case of picking the approach that makes most sense to you. 

All the same way round works for me, and the same for all my cars. Then it doesn’t matter which way up or round you’re holding the car. 

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

Cheers @TurnipJF and @Granddad Stinky more insight always welcome. Can see both side tbh, @Effigy3 and how I’ve got it. I’ll leave for now. 

Anyway, moving on. Wanted to do this next bit at the same time but they never arrived in time. 

When building the buggy, in my haste/inexperience/ham-fistedness I over tightened the front C-Hub to suspension arms. The top is no longer an issue since moving to turnbuckles but the lower one was still an issue. I must have damaged the thread as the screw would just turn and not seat properly and was backing out slightly with use. 

So as we already know we can call on the ever useful DT02(!) this time in the shape of part 54395 3x22mm Low Friction Suspension Shaft. 

Four shafts in the pack but today only two are being used. You can use the other two in place of the C-Hub to Axle screw. You will need some spacers for that though I believe and I have none available so that’s for another day, not that I have any issue with those but may as well seeing as I have them now. 

The screw in question. Definitely easier to put one of they blasted e-clips on first. Horrible little things 😂

All done. Being petty there’s is slight fore/aft movement so a small spacer each end might be added at some point.

Whether they make any difference to performance I don’t know. They shouldn’t come out and looking at the surface corrosion already on the screw they replace they can surely only be a positive change. 

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

A small update then.

The turnbuckles were fitted as per previous posts but free time has been non existent and when it has been available I’ve been making a start on the Top Force. 

Had a little look at the steering arms again today. Reset the TX trim to ‘0’ and got to work on the near side/left turnbuckle. First things first. How do you see if it’s even doing anything? I’m turning away thinking, ‘nothings happening here’ 😂 Obviously we are talking very tiny changes but still I’d have felt better if I could actually see a difference. 

Anyways. Had it looking relatively good to the eye and with the new trim settings I’m currently at 50/100 so I’ve knocked 38 off the original trim. I could possibly get it even lower, however...

1. It’s reduced and running straight, and,

2. Plans are afoot to change the buggy anyway soon as the girls want to redo the colour and the idea of wider/fatter wheels and different body appeal. So until decided, I’m happy with the new setting and they won’t even notice!

So, I’ve not given up on this one. I’ve just been distracted with work and the Top Force. 

Hopefully, time will be more available in the coming weeks to play more. 

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

Well life is truly getting in the way of anything fun at the minute so have had no time to run the buggy sadly since doing the turnbuckles. 

The buggy has just however received an unexpected treat in the shape of some universals.

Not needed likely but they were going spare due to issues with the Top Force they were meant for and a cursory mocking up showed they would likely fit and indeed they did, so the rest as they say, is history!

Ready for surgery...

And the axle and dogbone vs universal...

Same overall length. And an added bonus is the removal of the slight side to side slop that was present beforehand. 

No finished picture, it doesn’t look any different really. 

Again not expecting to see any real noticeable (to me) difference but I had them so why not and no doubt they will be slightly better at the extremes.  

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

A day off work. Check.

Weather is good. Check.

Two fully charged batteries. Check. 

Off to the park me and the girls went. It was sadly to be short lived as far as the buggy was concerned however. Youngest had a bash across the grass, grins all round. Middle one gets hold of it and decides what would be really good is if she sent it straight off some steps. 4ft maybe straight to flat. 

“ Dad. Why won’t the car turn?”

Well sweetheart it’s seems the kit servo saver was not impressed with that little move one bit. Opps 😂

Yep. I’d say that’s broke!

Was on the verge of changing anyway in the ongoing search for better steering and reduction in wander so not the end of the world, still annoying on the one day I was free to get out.

 

 

[Biz73 603]

It did it's job though. Better that than your servo. A Kimbrough is spring loaded so it will twist and bounce back rather than breaking in most instances.

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

1 minute ago, Biz73 said:

It did it's job though. Better that than your servo. A Kimbrough is spring loaded so it will twist and bounce back rather than breaking in most instances.

Yeah no complaints in that regard just typically poor timing on our first chance to use in a while. 

I guess going forward a saver is something to keep in the spares box.

Kimbrough is on the cards. Need to consider some options first and whether to bring other plans forward and which way to go with those. 

[Biz73 603]

I hear you on that. The first time we took out our FAV, my youngest son drove about 15 feet straight into a fence and broke the saver. Talk about a lengthy first run When I switched over to Kimbroughs, I saved the stock one's just in case. Since you already broke yours, I would just buy 2 Kimbroughs so you have one on hand. They are definitely worth the switch, and they tighten up the steering a bit as well, so it's a double bonus.

Glad to hear you are having fun with your kids though.

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

14 minutes ago, Biz73 said:

I hear you on that. The first time we took out our FAV, my youngest son drove about 15 feet straight into a fence and broke the saver. Talk about a lengthy first run When I switched over to Kimbroughs, I saved the stock one's just in case. Since you already broke yours, I would just buy 2 Kimbroughs so you have one on hand. They are definitely worth the switch, and they tighten up the steering a bit as well, so it's a double bonus.

Glad to hear you are having fun with your kids though.

Sod’s law! 

So is the Kimbrough made up similar to the Tamiya High Torque kit with the metal rings/springs?

Only pictures I’ve found only show the main body. 

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

14 minutes ago, Biz73 said:

I hear you on that. The first time we took out our FAV, my youngest son drove about 15 feet straight into a fence and broke the saver. Talk about a lengthy first run When I switched over to Kimbroughs, I saved the stock one's just in case. Since you already broke yours, I would just buy 2 Kimbroughs so you have one on hand. They are definitely worth the switch, and they tighten up the steering a bit as well, so it's a double bonus.

Glad to hear you are having fun with your kids though.

Sod’s law! 

So is the Kimbrough made up similar to the Tamiya High Torque kit with the metal rings/springs?

Only pictures I’ve found only show the main body. 

[TurnipJF 9192]

The springs and gubbins are inside the main body of the Kimborough. It is supplied prebuilt.

 

Personally I prefer the Tamiya high torque one as it can be taken apart more easily for cleaning and maintenance. 

[Biz73 603]

http://kimbroughracingproducts.com/store/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29905

Yes, they have a spring action to them.

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

Cheers @TurnipJF and @Biz73 was about to come edit post to say I’d managed to find how they were assembled, but nice one for clarifying. 

Might pick both up and keep the Kimbrough as my back up.

 

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

So then. I’ve be playing over this for a while now.  I built the Racing Fighter as at the time it was what appealed most. I had a colour scheme banging around in my head from early on and when I finished it I was pleased with how it had all come out. However. I grew bored of the colour almost immediately and when the girls really started to enjoy using it the idea of a new shell that they could make their own started to form. This is also when I started to feel I should have gone with the Aqroshot. The thing was growing on me all the time! Or at least the idea of the big fat wheels. So some parts were acquired and have sat in the bottom of the box as time and funds have been limited to move it forward. Anyway, whilst stripping the servo I got carried away 😂

So DT03 MK2 begins...

And I’ll say right from the off. What the final shell will be I have no idea. It may end up being an Aqroshot but I’m currently seeing what’s out there that might fit.

As I was previously working at, I will continue where possible to minimise slop/play between components. 

Lets begin then...

The C-Hub to Front Lower Arm. As I’ve previously detailed these now use the 3x22mm low friction shafts from the DT02 hop up. As I said at the time there was movement forward/backward between e-clip and lower arm. That’s been removed by adding a 0.3mm (3mm I.d) spacer either side. You may also be able to just make out a shim between arm and hub. I’ve added a 0.1mm either side again. 

Again as I mentioned when I originally fitted the low friction shaft, you can also swap out the screw pins for the low friction shafts. That’s now been done. The bottom silver spacer is 1.5mm (3mm I.d) and the top blue one is a 1mm spacer. Also used are two 0.3mm (5mm I.d) spacers top and bottom of the axle between C-hub as previously done but now using the longer Aqroshot axles. The wheel spacers on the axle shaft are what I was using previously with the buggy wheels. They may not be needed, I’ve just put them on for convenience so I don’t lose them!

The blue wheel nuts which were/are meant for the Top Force are undecided at present. They will stay or go based on how the girls decide they want to paint the shell. 

[kwkenuf 184]

 I had to do a double take on the title...

Funny how things turn when your girls are interested huh?!  Mine fell in love with a set of pink wheels they saw,  and they won’t let them go.

Looking forward to seeing the progression of this.

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

2 hours ago, kwkenuf said:

 I had to do a double take on the title...

Funny how things turn when your girls are interested huh?!  Mine fell in love with a set of pink wheels they saw,  and they won’t let them go.

Looking forward to seeing the progression of this.

😁 couldn’t think of anything witty for title so to the point it was!

Yeah, they are steering its direction tbh. Make it a bit more durable and capable so they can enjoy it and I get the pleasure of not only seeing them enjoy it but the fun of building and tweaking it. Win win!

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

So this happened today...

I blame @Granddad Stinky post on Facebook as I only intended to remove the rear end for some more de slopping work. Then I see Granddads post and I’m looking at it and thinking how the DT03 benefits from some weight up front and wait a minute, what’s those pockets at the front of the chassis tub? Hmm, Everything removed off I go!

So to begin, those scales are out again!

Bare chassis but with the battery pads and 3 main 3x10mm screws still holding it all together. 

Left side (as you look from the front) = 93g

Right side = 88g. 5g lighter than left but they aren’t identical so expected a difference. 

The ‘Super Special Weight Adder’. Some (white) Blu Tack. 

Left side packed as much as possible. 106g. A 13g increase. 

Right side packed. Awkward this side as you need to keep a path clear for the left side screw shaft/tube to fit in. Anyway, 100g and a 12g increase. 

New bare chassis weight (again including those 3 screws) 208g a 25g increase and best of all for my ocd neat and tidy head, it’s hidden. 

How positive or indeed negative an effect this has I’ll find out at some point. Imagine I’ll need to play with the shocks too to balance it out sag/ride height wise, good job that’s planned at some point!

— — —

In other conversion progress, the wheels arrived. Nothing fancy. Straight up Aqroshot wheels. 

How mich bigger are they though 😯 Was not expecting such a difference even at the back. 

So much extra girth!

Tyres are yet to be sourced. Highly likely to be Schumacher Vee 2/4 though. 

[Granddad Stinky 975]

But.. but...but... but.... me?

🤔🤔

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

1 minute ago, Granddad Stinky said:

But.. but...but... but.... me?

🤔🤔

Shhh, just go along with it, it makes me feel better if I can blame someone else for my silly digressions 😂

Unless of course it wasn’t you who posted the DT03 chassis on FB? In which case accept my apologies (was sure it was you however...worried and confused now 😳). 

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

Small update and not the most exciting as the postman failed to bring anything 😕

So on the buggy axles I needed to run 2x 0.3mm wheel spacers each side to remove the play. Had a look today at the Aqroshot wheels and 2x 0.3mm causes the wheels to bind. Bit of messing around and 1x 0.2mm each side is spot on. Taken the slight play out and retained perfect spin with no binding. 

Obviously the tolerances are tighter on the Aqroshot axles/wheels. 

I hope the girls end up picking a colour scheme that works with the blue wheel nuts. I think they look rather nice against the white wheels!

[Man1c M0nk3y 565]

A bit more done today before work.

Rear end securing and de-slopping. 

Lower arm to Hub.

More shafts and horrible e-clips. There must several dotted around the room now where they pinged off 😂  This time using shafts out of TL-01 Stainless Steel Suspension Shaft Set (53301). Two of the shorter 3x37mm shafts used  with a 2mm and 1mm spacer used from the 53539 Alluminium Spacer Set. Unlike the front no other shimming required.

Lower arm to gearbox casing.

This time two of the longer 3x46mm shafts used. A bit of playing about here ended up with a 0.2mm Shim to the rear of the arm/casing and a 0.1mm to the front to remove play. As elsewhere more than likely of no benefit but I like it better this way!

You can just about make out the 0.2mm shim in the above picture.

And all back together minus the shocks as they are next for the tweaking treatment!

Test fit of wheels shows much like the buggy wheels previously that no shims are needed since fitting the universals.

A few choices to be made now regarding spending pennies on some ‘upgrades’. Before then though il intend to hopefully rebuild the shocks with some parts from an impulse purchase from a few months back that I put away and forgot all about 🙄 Memory like a sieve these days!