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Any guess on re-re 2019?

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2 hours ago, taffer said:

Even though in the West the thundershot is maybe not overly popular, there's been a dozen or more versions in the mini 4WD range, so it must have been a safe bet for the domestic market back in 2005!?

In the West was it not that the Thundershot was WAY more popular than the ThunderDragon while in the East it was the other way round?

Bit like the Madcap and Saint Dragon. The Dragon cars were Manga inspired with their own cartoon. While we in West not having the cartoon we went more on looks. I personally picked the ThunderShot as I liked it more then the Dragon version, I also reckoned the body would give a little more protection to the battery and internals. 

The Super Sabre was not on my radar at all as it was old tech compared to the Thunder series. As started with a 2nd hand Boomerang more of the same was not an option.

We as adults can afford multiple cars for collections, but as Teenagers MOST of us who could manage to have multiple cars had different types, not several of the same.

I certainly look at models now that are historically important, not what I wanted BITD.

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1988-1991: RISE OF THE AVANTE

 

1988: Sonic Fighter, Avante, Thunder Dragon, Grasshopper II, Terra Scorcher, Vanquish

1989: Fire Dragon, Egress, Astute, Madcap 1990: Saint Dragon, Avante 2001, Manta Ray

1991: Bear Hawk, Super Astute, Top-Force

 

 

1988

1998 was a major RC year, if only for the fact that news (and goods) traveled much slower back then, and I’m sure I wasn’t the only kid around who was completely unaware of the Avante, Terra Scorcher and Vanquish releases, until I first saw them at the local hobby store, all three at once. Even as a kid, I knew immediately that times were changing again. THREE radically new buggies (technically not entirely correct), radically different from everything that had been around up to this point, and radically different from each other. Tamiya, it seemed, was getting ready to take over the entire RC world. So much choice. So little pocket money. To me, these three are the holy trinity of Tamiya RC buggies. My personal holy trinity, mind you, as I have no way to objectively judge their historical significance.

But I can tell you this: Six buggies were released in 1988, more than in any other year in Tamiya history. Both Terra Scorcher and Vanquish served out 5 full years on the market, consistent with Tamiya buggy availability average up to that point in history. No way these were not successful, no way they would not attract the same market interest as the “early” re-res today. The first generation of mainstream RC kids, the 10 year olds of 1983, might have moved on to different things by 1988, but 1988 was still buggy age, and for the second generation, these three were the cars to have. Simple as that. The 10 year olds of 1988, by the way, have just turned 40 recently. It is their re-re turn now, so expect the ’88 cars to happen, and sooner than later. 

Which, after a deep breath, brings us to Sonic Fighter, which is just odd, but think about it… you want one, don’t you? At this point, it doesn’t matter anymore if it handled or what weaknesses it had, or if it was considered to be plain ugly, at this point, your inner collector is telling you that without Sonic Fighter, the buggy re-re run won’t be complete. If every other buggy has a re-re justification, Sonic Fighter (least popular Tamiya buggy ever, by availability) in turn earns its own. And Striker just looks so much better with Sonic Fighter next to it. Ok, this is probably the one buggy that could objectively be called a failure, again judging from its very short two year availability (Striker had 5), but that doesn’t matter, because I want one every time I see one, and I certainly didn't back then, and I have a nagging feeling that this is what re-re is all about. Not individual buying decisions, but ensnaring your inner collector to the point of utter helplessness. After all, you ARE over 40, and you CAN afford more than one of these. You might as well want them ALL. And I have a feeling that you are going to get your chance.

Grasshopper II, also released in 1988, was first sneered at by hardened 10 year old veterans of the playground circuits. We were oldschool Grasshopper fans, after all. How dare they replace it? You know how the sequel almost never lives up to the original – but Grasshopper II did. Small wonder, it is the same car, after all, with a minor technical difference and a different body, and it held its own as the resident cheap 2WD buggy for the second wave of RC playground bashers, just like Grasshopper did for the first.

Thunder Dragon came out in 1988, too, hot on the heels of 1987s Thundershot, using the Thundershot chassis, just like Suber Sabre used the Boomerang’s. It was the first Tamiya buggy to have a distinctive “Japanese” appearance, and from what I remember, no-one liked it. The Manga craze has been cited as one of the reasons why Tamiya made a Japanese themed buggy, but I don’t know enough about Mangas or any aspect of 80s Japan youth culture to even speculate on that. I thought it was ugly and out of place, and so did everybody else, and unlike Striker, Sonic Fighter and Bigwig, Thunder Dragon hasn’t aged well. It’s still ugly, and unlike almost all Tamiya buggies, it doesn’t have that ”real” feeling to it. All those other buggies, they could at least theoretically have been scale versions of real world buggies, but not Thunder Dragon. It was a fantasy toy first, RC car later. Of all the original buggies, this is the one I can wait for. I’d buy a re-re, just to have the complete set, but that’s about it.

 

1989

1989 started out with the Fire Dragon, and there is nothing I can say about Fire Dragon that would be any different from what I just said about Thunder Dragon, except of course for one thing: Fire Dragon has been re-released in 2008. That proves, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that my own personal preferences are NOT key factors in Tamiya re-re decisions. Not that I thought they would be, but I do believe that I do, to a point, represent  your average 80s western world buggy kid turned 40+, and  this crowd obviously isn’t the only one that Tamiya caters to. Not that this was news to anyone, merely pointing out the significance of the original Dragon car re-release once again.

Next came Egress, which was like Avantes bad young brother (Forgive me this rather obscure 1988/1989 reference). Avante, to a degree, was what you knew, a cool, sleek, stylish Tamiya buggy, driver and all, and it might have been way out of reach, and then Egress comes along, blacked out-windows, no driver, no sponsor decals, and every 10 year old knew that the RC world had shifted again. The gloves had come off. Buggy was leaving the mainstream, just one year after the six releases record year of 1988. And Egress didn’t come alone, it brought along Astute, equally sinister business-looking, and we knew that the fun playground buggy thing had come to an end. Those two cars, in my opinion, mark the beginning progression from buggy racing as a mainstream hobby to a buggy racing as professional sport, and are among the most historically significant of the First 100, or at least at the modern end of the First 100 if you’re over 50. Astute is one hot re-re-candidate, if you ask me. It doesn’t matter if Avante, Egress or Astute lived up to the expectations on international racetracks. They clearly brought their point across – the RC world was becoming increasingly competition-focused, and the kids on the streets would have to make do with whatever leftovers they could get.

Like Madcap, first new release on the “cheap” end of things. It didn’t make sense to us, at the time. Buggy racing was going professional, and therefore, expensive - from your car park basher point of view, note Egress and Avante. And now they’re making a cheap version of an expensive professional buggy? This wasn’t the affordable Boomerang companion to the upscale Hotshot, this was first making the entire hobby inaffordable, and then presenting a cheap knock-off of the real thing for you to have. The market wasn’t taking you seriously anymore, and this is where the second wave of mainstream RC enthusiasts started to slowly move into other things. Madcap must have worked for the third wave, though, the kids that missed 1983-1988, because it lasted 14 years on the market. It’s the third-last buggy on my wishlist, but I recognize its historical significance. It might easily have been one of the most commercially important Tamiya buggies ever.

 

1990

1990 is not the last year of the First 100, but things were already clearly changing. Saint Dragon came out and made it clear that Tamiya was now completely out of touch with the playground-hardened buggy veterans of ‘86. This was a toy, like all the Dragon cars, and worse, it was toy on a cheap toy platform, when earlier  Dragon cars had at least made use of respected 4WD underpinnings. Yeah, I’ll still get one when it is re-re’d, but just because Tamiya got me hooked anyway. Bring it on, you can have my money, and worse, I’ll still enjoy the build. And I’ll still enjoy owning this monstrosity. Oh, the beauty of reliving your childhood.

Equally as-of-yet un-re-re’d Avante 2001 shared the Grasshopper II’s fate – part 2 of nothing is ever as good as part 1. But unlike Grasshopper II, Avante 2001 didn’t get the chance to prove itself. Yes, it made it thru 5 years on the market, unlike the first Avante, but by the time it was discontinued in 1994, buggy racing had left the mainstream altogether, and where it went, an entirely new breed of buggies reigned supreme, one that could do without references to 80s mainstream buggy products. Kit #58085, Avante 2001 really is the last of the traditional First 100, because what came after it is all third-generation stuff.

Like Manta Ray, the original DF-01 buggy, heralding in a new age in buggy racing. There have always been “serious” racers, but in the 80s, everybody raced everything, everywhere, and almost anything you could buy was at least in some sense, race ready. But in the 90s, the mass appeal aspect began to vanish, and offroad buggy racing was becoming a thing of the past. On-Road and Rally cars just made more sense to the casual RC user. Those who stayed with buggies really had to mean it, and so the focus shifted to competition, and the playground class disappeared almost entirely. Professional racing was not a Tamiya domain, unfortunately, so they had to come up with something new to carry over the few remaining playground warriors into the new world of “serious” buggy ownership. Manta Ray was the first affordable, entry-level competition buggy, wouldn’t you say? It wasn’t expensive, but it could be seriously hopped up, no driver, no sponsor decals, it was all about being fast and efficient at the lower end of the competition world. Historically significant? You bet. It is also a really ugly piece of work, but at least they spared it the Dragon cars’ “toy” image by opting for a more “Whats that all about then??” look. Must have worked, as it stayed on the market for 11 years. Do I own one? You bet. Do I bash one? Again, you bet. Is it insanely hopped up, brushless’d-out and really, really banged up? Yes. Can you see where this is going? Even in 2018, the Manta Ray is still cheap fast fun, nicely bridgeing the playground-track gap. Well deserved re-release, if you ask me. Even though I still think it’s really, really ugly.

 

1991

And then it all ended. The last of the 36 buggies  among the First 100 came out in 1991, and it would take Tamiya 24 years to release the next 36. Bear Hawk, loosely related to 1986s Falcon, was the first buggy to be released in 1991. Maybe if Tamiya had brought Bear Hawk out in… say, well, 1986, it could have been a success. But in 1991, it looked oddly out of place, an 80s buggy in a 90s competition setting. It is, in my opinion, one of the best-looking late First 100 cars, but it shared Falcon’s fate: Aimed at a market that wasn’t really there, not quite a toy, but nowhere near Manta Ray’s new competition ready buggy class, aimed maybe at the few 80s stragglers still trying to find their way in to the future. It’s the First 100’s rear guard, so to speak, and in my personal opinion, one of the least likely to-be-re-re’d buggies right now. Which is a shame, ‘cause I’d definitely want one. I hope I’m wrong on this. Maybe I am, because Bear Hawk was available for 6 years, one more than the First 100 average, but then again, Tamiya buggies became far, far more long-lived once the 80s boom was over. 

Super Astute came out just two years after the original Astute, basically incorporating lessons learned from the original car’s competition history. Somewhat like Hotshot and Super Shot, something that  had been going on the professional racing circuit for decades. It is the first true “Evo” Tamiya buggy, really, at least in the post-mainstream years. Maybe you didn’t know that you desperately wanted one, but I’m sure you do right now. Hang on for a minute, I need to go check if mine has arrived in the mail yet.

Um, no, let’s wrap this up with Top-Force, because if Super Astute is really here, I’ll be busy. Top-Force. #100. One step up from Manta Ray, completing buggy’s transition to a serious competition sport, too "competition" to be an useful basher. Last of the First 100, marking the divide between “then” and “now”. Obvious re-re choice. Hated it back then, admire it now. Put yours next to your Avante and your Hotshot and see the entire history of Tamiya 4WD in one neat package.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, S-PCS said:

Like Madcap, first new release on the “cheap” end of things. It didn’t make sense to us, at the time. Buggy racing was going professional, and therefore, expensive - from your car park basher point of view, note Egress and Avante. And now they’re making a cheap version of an expensive professional buggy? This wasn’t the affordable Boomerang companion to the upscale Hotshot, this was first making the entire hobby inaffordable, and then presenting a cheap knock-off of the real thing for you to have. The market wasn’t taking you seriously anymore, and this is where the second wave of mainstream RC enthusiasts started to slowly move into other things. Madcap must have worked for the third wave, though, the kids that missed 1983-1988, because it lasted 14 years on the market. It’s the third-last buggy on my wishlist, but I recognize its historical significance. It might easily have been one of the most commercially important Tamiya buggies ever.

My take on the Madcap was that it was the entry-level part of Tamiya's new wave of vehicles which had a distinctly more "competitive" slant i.e. King Cab-racing truck, Astute-2wd race buggy, Egress-4wd race buggy. In the US, many started out with the Tamiya Grasshopper or Hornet. These are great but severely limited by design. RC Car Action frequently pushed the Kyosho Raider as a better, more developed entry-level buggy that had more performance potential. To that end, that is how I viewed the Madcap. The Madcap was cheap, but the Madcap performed very well. Add bearings, shocks and maybe a metal motor plate and it could be off and running with some degree of prowess on a off-road track. In many ways, the simplified Madcap could be hopped up to be a better, less breakage-prone competitor than if one started with an Astute (which still fell into the trap of novel, but untested ideas in competition, somewhat akin to the Avante). The car was heralded as the new standard of entry level until the Losi Junior 2 came out with even more performance potential (but hey, it still wasn't a Tamiya). I mean, here was a Tamiya buggy that could, in time, run with an RC10, unheard of a year before.  

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On 12/12/2018 at 1:29 AM, markturbo said:

Still waiting for these...maybe someday.

 

 

TamiyaKingCab.jpg

Tamiya-Toyota-Hilux-Monster-Racer.jpg

With updated gearboxes that can handle brushless motors 🤞

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On 12/14/2018 at 10:31 AM, steve r said:

With updated gearboxes that can handle brushless motors 🤞

With the Super Astute out these are a HUGE possibility. These are family members to the Astute, I'm guessing one of these trucks get rere'd and then the Astute. Except for the Dyna Storm every other Rere has had at least one of their platform mates rere'd with it .

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On 12/16/2018 at 9:28 PM, GTodd said:

With the Super Astute out these are a HUGE possibility. These are family members to the Astute, I'm guessing one of these trucks get rere'd and then the Astute. Except for the Dyna Storm every other Rere has had at least one of their platform mates rere'd with it .

There seems to be a lot more for sale on eBay recently too, could be a sign that people think there’s a re-re coming and are offloading the originals while they are still rare?

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On 12/9/2018 at 8:22 PM, S-PCS said:

A LOT of writing

 

 

 

 

 

That was an awesome post, just saying.

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Sing with me people, FALCON BECAUSE FALCON BECAUSE FALCON BECAUSE FALCON!!!!
Repeat ad nauseum.
Or at least spares for same.

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By this time last year someone had already said the Manta Ray was coming for 2018. It could of been a wild guess, or someone actually knowing. 

 

I guess we will know for sure fairly soon at the fair in January. 

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Well, all I can say is that from a re-re perspective, this Christmas was like, well, uh, Christmas.

Sadly, this also means that there are currently no more re-res for me to build. I really need that Falcon NOW, Mr. Tamiya. Please.

DSC_2153.JPG

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 I’m begging that they do a re-release of the falcon!!!! I will literally get two of them one for me and one for my dad! 

It was the first RC car he bought and the  fastest RC car I got my hands on when I was a kid and what started it all for me! 

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On 12/9/2018 at 6:22 AM, S-PCS said:

1988-1991: RISE OF THE AVANTE

----

 

Nice write up.

While all of this is logical, you're forgetting Tamiya's tendency to re-release relevant historic models only when a certain

time period has been reached, generally with a "special edition" kit. 

This tends to throw out the window your statistical prediction, or any prediction for that matter.

Surely some Tamiya historians around here can help you out? :]

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On 12/31/2018 at 10:39 AM, S-PCS said:

Well, all I can say is that from a re-re perspective, this Christmas was like, well, uh, Christmas.

Sadly, this also means that there are currently no more re-res for me to build. I really need that Falcon NOW, Mr. Tamiya. Please.

DSC_2153.JPG

Add a Top Force to that and my collection would be complete!

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4 hours ago, tamiyamexifan said:

Nice write up.

While all of this is logical, you're forgetting Tamiya's tendency to re-release relevant historic models only when a certain

time period has been reached, generally with a "special edition" kit. 

This tends to throw out the window your statistical prediction, or any prediction for that matter.

Surely some Tamiya historians around here can help you out? :]

Simply scroll back thru the pages of this thread a little further, all special editions and the general timeline are accounted for. 

It's true though that I've never explored the re-release-to-special-edition ratio in full depth... I don't think there's much to that idea, but who knows, statistics are statistically full of surprises, and surprises are statistically most often unexpected. I'll look into this right away. 

Statistics, by the way, are in nature infallible. Statistically speaking.

 

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On 12/8/2018 at 8:24 PM, S-PCS said:

There were 36 buggies among the First 100. In Order of appearance, they are listed below. Re-re'd kits are Black, un-re-re'd kits are Red

1979: Rough Rider, Sand Scorcher

1980: Holiday Buggy

1981: Sand Rover

1982: Super Champ

1983: The Frog

1984: The Grasshopper, Fast Attack Vehicle, The Hornet

1985: Hotshot, Wild One, The Fox

1986: Super Shot, Boomerang, The Falcon, Bigwig

1987: Striker, Hotshot II, Super Sabre, Thundershot

1988: Sonic Fighter, Avante, Thunder Dragon, Grasshopper II, Terra Scorcher, Vanquish

1989: Fire Dragon, Egress, Astute, Madacp

1990: Saint Dragon, Avante 2001, Manta Ray

1991: Bear Hawk, Super Astute, Top-Force

Well, here's the 36, 23 re-re'd, 13 still outstanding. 

Out of the 23, special editions were released for:

Rough Rider (Silver, Gold) 

Grasshopper (Black, Green) 

FAV (Shark) 

Hornet (Metallic, Mad Cow, Supreme) 

Hotshot (Metallic) 

Avante (Black Special) 

That's 6 out of 23 re-releases that are or were available as "special editions". That's roughly only 26%. 

Even more important, not a single one of these "editions" came out alongside or even close to the "original" re-release. Seems like the editions are always a year late, on average closer to three, and in some cases, 13. There's nothing here to suggest any link between re-re and special edition strategies. 

Since you can't special edition what hasn't been re-re'd yet, the editions naturally folllow behind the re-res in what seems to a somewhat similiar timeline, but that's not a statistical issue, that's more Albert Einstein territory. Let me get some coffee before we introduce time, space and the Universal Order of All Things to 2019 re-re guessing. 

 

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6 hours ago, S-PCS said:

Even more important, not a single one of these "editions" came out alongside or even close to the "original" re-release. Seems like the editions are always a year late, on average closer to three, and in some cases, 13. There's nothing here to suggest any link between re-re and special edition strategies. 

...

 

Thanks, yes. That was exactly my point.

These "special edition" kits have no particular rhyme or reason, arriving randomly.

Example: Avante Black Special, which is a special re-release of the 2011 re-release. Why?

Exactly what landmark did Tamiya achieve with the awesome "Black Special". The 2011 Avante I can understand (35th Anniversary), but the "Black"?

My prediction is that Tamiya will accelerate their "Special Edition Re-Releases" since the list

of possible of attractive or significant models not yet re-released is growing short.

I'm pretty sure their profit margins are much much higher with these Special Edition Re-Releases, following

the The Hornet example you just cited. We're now in the "niche of a niche" territory.

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13 minutes ago, tamiyamexifan said:

of possible of attractive or significant models not yet re-released is growing short. 

That depends on your individual perspective, I'd say. 13 buggies haven't been re-released so far, an while I'd agree that Saint Dragon and Bear Hawk probably weren't the most important Tamiya buggies of all times, you could say the same thing about Holiday Buggy or FAV - and still, there they are. 

Hotshot II, Astute, Madcap and Avante 2001 on the other hand, any one of those is attractive and significant in my book. No, hang on, Madcap, I don't like Madcap, scratch "attractive" , but boy was it significant (from a sales perspective). 

But the best example is Thunder Dragon. I positively despise Thunder Dragon. Yet, there's guys here who hold Thunder Dragon to be the most beautiful and significant Tamiya buggy ever, and they are no more right or wrong than I am.

Re-re targets several generations of RC car enthusiasts (as in "the kids who ran Frogs in 83-84" or "the kids that had Madcaps when it came out"), in several countries, with a wide variety in tastes and preferences. I'm western world, northern hemisphere RC generation 1986-1992 with a focus on "realistic" models, and to me, back then, SRBs were old news and Frogs were outdated. I'm still waiting for my own personal milestones from back then, Terra Scorcher and Vanquish, two of the most attractive and significant Tamiya buggies ever - in my opinion. 

Having said that, YES, the list of attractive and significant buggies not yet rereleased is growing short. 23 down, only 13 left to do. 

I'm pretty sure we'll see them all. 

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For me it's golden age of competive racing cars, 88 to 92 or so, Astute, Super Astute, Dyna Storm and Top Force.  I realize none acheived great success per se but they were able to be contenders at the club level for sure in this time. 

For others said golden age is probably earlier or later.  

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6 hours ago, S-PCS said:

I'm still waiting for my own personal milestones from back then, Terra Scorcher and Vanquish, two of the most attractive and significant Tamiya buggies ever - in my opinion. 

...

I'm pretty sure we'll see them all. 

Well, a Tamiya was significant if it sold a lot of units, like the Thunder Dragon you mentioned, would you agree? 

Maybe it was not attractive to us in the West, but it was important for Tamiya in terms of sales.

As for the TS and Vanquish, those are also my personal favorites. Sadly, I don't think Tamiya will re-release them any time soon.

Why? Simply because they have already released various models of that same line that are certainly more marketable:

- Thundershot or Thundershot-based models that were infinitely more popular (and cheaper) than the Terra Scorcher, which was the culmination

of the Thundershot chassis. So again, we're in the "niche of a niche" territory.

- Avante and Egress re-releases. Both are well beyond what any normal modeler would pay for a buggy. They are squarely targeted at nostalgia fans with deep pockets. The Vanquish was the cheaper, but certainly no cheap, cousin of those other two. The two pricier models got all the press back in the day (track down RCCA's review of the Egress and the magnificent photos that accompanied the text). So the Vanquish is stuck in very, very, tough spot. Maybe a little too narrow for the masses.

And then we have the Astute line. 

Now here's an interesting business decision that exemplifies Tamiya's re-release strategy.

Lots of us have been waiting for the Astute or monster trucks that use that quirky ball diff (King Cab, Hilux Monster Racer).

I believe Tamiya has emphatically denied us that trio of cars due to their questionable transmission design. Obviously the Madcap, also.

Instead, they re-released the Super Astute, which solved all the tranny issues of the previous models and can be sold at a higher price.

In conclusion, a re-release model must be historically significant, marketable to nostalgia junkies and robust enough as to not create Tamiya more problems than they already have :]

 

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8 hours ago, RCvet said:

For me it's golden age of competive racing cars, 88 to 92 or so, Astute, Super Astute, Dyna Storm and Top Force.  I realize none acheived great success per se but they were able to be contenders at the club level for sure in this time. 

For others said golden age is probably earlier or later.  

I couldn't agree more, these cars didn't win the worlds for Tamiya but they grew with us. We went from bashing Hornets and Frogs in the back yard to wanting to mix it up with our friends on the track who had RC10s etc. The Astutes, Avantes, Top Forces etc were not the best track car but they were the best looking track cars that were also fun to build. This is Tamiya Niche and I think they need to keep it to it.

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9 hours ago, S-PCS said:

I'm western world, northern hemisphere RC generation 1986-1992 with a focus on "realistic" models,

 

On 12/9/2018 at 5:19 PM, Baddon said:

In the West was it not that the Thundershot was WAY more popular than the ThunderDragon while in the East it was the other way round?

Bit like the Madcap and Saint Dragon. The Dragon cars were Manga inspired with their own cartoon. While we in West not having the cartoon we went more on looks. I personally picked the ThunderShot as I liked it more then the Dragon version,

 

This is a god point to raise as most here at TC fit into that category.... along with the middle aged men with wives that don't understand anything that happens inside your garage category.

I know it's been said before but you almost have to forget your own western mentality when thinking about this subject and start dreaming Land of the Rising Sun !  I just think that the Japanese and Asian market is still the primary target for Tamiya.  In particular all of the fun wheelie and now comical releases are really to pander to the Japanese market as example.  Surely the re-re product line is also influenced mostly by what will be popular at home and then gives some consideration to the world market. 

Fire Dragon for instance is massively popular in Japan so it was always going to get a run.  Based on this I'm calling Super Sabre in 2019.....:D  

 

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