15t motor not pokey enough for df03

[novicelad 787]

Hi All

I have a dark impact with a 1060 esc with 15t motor on 3s lipos.

Its pretty quick loads of top end but feel like it takes a bit to get there, so I guess need a bit more oomph!

What would give me a bit more fun taking off without sacrificing too much top end?

[Prescient 671]

Which 15t motor. 

Many 15t mod motor including something like the Orion Methods are not great in off road buggies and don't even perform as well as something like a Tamiya super stock bz.

Heck my Super Stock BZ will out perform the Orion Method Pro 12T in an off road buggy.

Mod/low turn motors have always been hit and miss as have HPI Firebolts etc etc. In fact I would say those HPI Firebolts 15Ts are total rubbish. There is a reason they are £8. Last Firebolt I tried on 3s was bested by a Sports Tuned on 3s

Cheap 15Ts are just empty numbers unless perfectly geared in a touring car.

Some are just rubbish regardless. 

 

[novicelad 787]

Its a method 15x2 I have a sport's tuned I could try

[Prescient 671]

It's the method. Completely wrong gearing and torque profile for the df03. 

Also those methods do not like 3s. 

You can kill one of those from heat and rpm in a couple of mins 

1060 + 3s + silver can is where it's at. 

Or 2s + Super Stock BZ

Otherwise, you really need to be into brushless for decent performance beyond that assuming your gears don't melt down first lol given its a df03.

[Wooders28 4723]

5700kv brushless and 3s lipo?

 

[novicelad 787]

14 minutes ago, Prescient said:

It's the method. Completely wrong gearing and torque profile for the df03. 

Also those methods do not like 3s. 

You can kill one of those from heat and rpm in a couple of mins 

1060 + 3s + silver can is where it's at. 

Or 2s + Super Stock BZ

Otherwise, you really need to be into brushless for decent performance beyond that assuming your gears don't melt down first lol given its a df03.

Cool cheers! 

Gonna use what I've got first!

[richard.tufty 20]

On ‎07‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 9:29 PM, Prescient said:

Otherwise, you really need to be into brushless for decent performance beyond that assuming your gears don't melt down first lol given its a df03.

I use a 8.5T brushless on 2s Lipo in mine and find it fun enough, but not too much that it destroys the drivetrain. I did put a slipper in there too.

[Juggular 4964]

I wish DT03 came with more options for pinions.  

17t is the lowest limit and it's too tall for hotter motors, as Prescient had said.  

I wonder if one could Dremel the top hole and move the bolt hole.  Maybe the motor could pivot from the bottom screw closer to the spur gear.  Perhaps 15T pinion could be mounted?

Wait, spur gear would interfere.... Maybe lower bolt could move closer?  

Then again, if it was that easy, somebody would have done it already, I guess. 

I don't have DT03, so I don't know if there is a room for the motor to get closer on the left side.  

  

[novicelad 787]

Put in sports tuned but still not right, like something was slipping?

Anyway after 10 15 minutes of running the motor burnt out, smelly smokey and everything. What could it be?

Gears are meshed ok

Running 1060 esc on 3s lipo

[WillyChang 1814]

SportTuned specs say

Usable voltage:

6 - 8.4v

6.0-8.4V (5-7cell) so 3s = 12V+ is beyond its rated specs

We've got plenty of experience pushing SportTuneds to the moon... when overgeared they'll get hot, then start shedding their tiny lumps of brushes off their little T-rex arms, then everything goes up in smoke

DF03 is also pretty tough office, stuck in a deep hole with negligible airflow to cool it.

What pinion are you using? Still the stock kit 26T? Might want to get something smaller, let the motor rev higher.

 

 

[Wooders28 4723]

Sounding like you need to embrace the brushless set up @novicelad 

[novicelad 787]

Cheers guys so I guess I fried the motor my bad shouldn't have pushed it. Was going well though!

But what could the slipping be? All gearing is stock.

 

[Wooders28 4723]

14 minutes ago, novicelad said:

But what could the slipping be? All gearing is stock.

 

If you've no slipper, then it's only the ball diffs that can slip, if the balls get hot, they'll melt the surrounding plastic too.

[novicelad 787]

7 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

If you've no slipper, then it's only the ball diffs that can slip, if the balls get hot, they'll melt the surrounding plastic too.

Cool will see whats happened 

[Wooders28 4723]

Ive set mine, so when I turn one wheel, the other turns the same way and turns the motor. Maybe a bit on the tight side, but I was running a 5700kv on 3s and now a 7700kv 4 pole.

[nowinaminute 2815]

I find brushed motors really don't play well with 3s for general use, especially 4x4 and especialler upwards of 27T. Depending on the gearing, even a 2s can allow the motor to draw enough current to burn itself out. It not unusual for a vehicle that was fine on nicad or nimh to suddenly run way too hot when the motor has access to way more current.

There are exceptions of course, slower geared MTs and crawlers can run higher voltages usually but I find 3s is too much in a lot of situations, especially if you want to do more than buzz around a car park for a bit.

[novicelad 787]

Thanks for all the help people, still learning its really helpful 

[Juggular 4964]

On 1/14/2018 at 9:43 AM, WillyChang said:

3s = 12V+ is beyond its rated specs

On that issue, I thought I have seen a photo of a burnt silver can. 

Was it Wooders28, who posted a silver can that got burned out with 3S?

[Prescient 671]

I tried to burn out silvercans on 3s and failed, even in the proper 2 engine monster trucks.

It's possible that the silvercan in question was end of life anyway or really badly over geared/loaded. 

But hey, they are virtually free. I have seen 10 go for £10 on eBay or even less. 

[Wooders28 4723]

2 hours ago, Juggular said:

On that issue, I thought I have seen a photo of a burnt silver can. 

Was it Wooders28, who posted a silver can that got burned out with 3S?

Yeah it was,I think it was the 3rd back to back pack through it, on a vintage 540 motor , in a vintage boomerang , on a raining tarmac course (a club exhiition and no one else wanted to run there car in the wet!) 

(Not paid the photoucket ransom, so my pics may disappear at any point)

Also posted the pic of the 5700kv castle that went fizz too.

[Juggular 4964]

An old silver can is not worth much.  But fizzing 5700kv Castle hurts!  Was it 3S also?  

[Wooders28 4723]

5 minutes ago, Juggular said:

  But fizzing 5700kv Castle hurts!  Was it 3S also?  

Urm no, 5s.... 

Castle mamba max pro esc went pop, motor had gone fizz (chicken or egg?) and the 2s and 3s lipo's both fault on a balance charge now. Bit of an expensive ' Just one more run' ! 

(But was top speed in the 2wd until only recently though 🖒😁) 

 

[Juggular 4964]

1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

Urm no, 5s.... 

 18.5v?  That's amazing.   But not surprising that your ESC, motor, and the batteries got cooked.  I suppose somebody had to push the limit and it takes a brave soul to do it.    

Having seen your video, gearing does seem like a problem with DT03.  The acceleration didn't seem punchy. And hearing the noise, the gearing sounded tall.  18.5v x 5700kv = 105,450 RPM (no load).  I have a hard time wrapping my head around that number.  That should have been 7 times the RPM of a silver can (if the pinion could be lowered enough to spool-up properly).  That would produce a very high pitch noise like a Banshee scream (not that I've ever heard it).  Even with a 25% smaller number of teeth (like 13T), you could have gotten 5 times the speed of a silver can.  DT03 could go from 15 mph to 75mph (120kph).  Too bad that 17t is the limit.  It won't allow the motor to spool up.  

Thanks for the video, Wooders.  Sad to see a Castle system go, but it was a rather inspirational pursuit for speed.  

 

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

That 5s fireball is the gift that keeps on giving. I smile everytime i see anything 5s. I liked the way you strapped the battery on top

[Wooders28 4723]

Fully charged it's closer to 21v but figured it wouldn't rev past castles 100k rpm limit with the tall gearing. It was the heat that did the damage, should have just done 1 run 😕.

 

5 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

I liked the way you strapped the battery on top

In keeping with the df03 thread 🙄😁

@Juggular check out the fastest tamiya thread for more madness, converted to brushless QD toys and a 6s almost 50mph lunchbox?