Manta Ray is re-released for 2018

[firefoxussr]

I've been contemplating buying a Manta Ray shell and putting it on a sturdier buggy.  I do like the design a lot.  Also my favorite animal is the manta... so i'm biased to put it lightly.  

I understand the wing is individual to the car and somewhat rare.  So I'm down with a re-release of this.

Futher point, on a stock Manta driveline, what's the upper limit it can handle without damaging the driveline with ease?

[WillyChang]

9 hours ago, Man1c M0nk3y said:

Apologies for a slight derail but for those of you in the know how does the DF-01 compare to the DF-03?

For example the Top Force can be had for similar £’s to the Dark Impact. Is the DI better or were the older 01’s better? I suppose the Manta is closer to the Impact though with the tub chassis. 

Im sure they’ve both got ‘faults’ but anyone had both and has a preference? 

DF03 might be newer but it's still designed back in the days of nickel batteries. It handles reasonably well but is finicky to build & maintain, the tub is super cramped and needs hacking to fit decent lipo.

Whereas DF01 is a tank, no tricks needed to build a reliable usable car. 

 

[WillyChang]

48 minutes ago, firefoxussr said:

Futher point, on a stock Manta driveline, what's the upper limit it can handle without damaging the driveline with ease?

Give it full bearings, metal motor mount, steel pinion with some care & attention paid to closing up the cover properly (I use machine thread screws) there's no reason why gearbox can't handle decent power.

Mine (58087) runs brushless. Its run enduros & I lend it to friends at the park. It's usually on 2.2" wheels too.

Its an off-road buggy though not a highspeed runner... no point going crazy fast if you can't negotiate the next corner.

[TurnipJF]

...Apart from the tricks required to save the rear gearbox mouldings from cracking...

[waterbok]

For the TF and Neo TF the nose is quite different.

[WillyChang]

21 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

...Apart from the tricks required to save the rear gearbox mouldings from cracking...

that was the "care & attention" bit  

Biggest casualty on mine is front shock towers, they're like jarjarbinks sticking his ugly head up into the line of fire. (yay if they're re-re'ing Manta I should stock up... the last rere was great for that)

At the racetrack I bring whole front ends as spare... it's easier to swap whole front gearbox off the tub than just replace the shock tower. 

Have a spare rear end too but never had to use it. Dead motors are easy to swap out if they've already got motor mounts bolted on, no need to set mesh.  

[WillyChang]

4 minutes ago, waterbok said:

For the TF and Neo TF the nose is quite different.

Oh kool, thanks.

Does the lump on TF hug the front gearbox or it's just for show?

Neo has different tub isn't it...

looks narrower than Manta

[waterbok]

No Neo is same tub size as standard DF01 but with an electronics lid and more holes.

body sits higher think rear is 1.5cm compared to TF

 

 

[waterbok]

Here one of my pictures with the body on.

[WillyChang]

Is your rear wing wrong way round?

(haha I think googlepic has archived your pics if that's your car) 

 

here's another different unit, looks like factory pic

 

[Saito2]

41 minutes ago, WillyChang said:

Does the lump on TF hug the front gearbox or it's just for show?

Yeah, I believe it does. I always found that a cool feature about the low slung Top Force shell.

 

2 hours ago, firefoxussr said:

Futher point, on a stock Manta driveline, what's the upper limit it can handle without damaging the driveline with ease?

IIRC, an old Tamiyaclub member, TAMark, was pretty heavy into the DF01 and his was modded to hold up under brushless power. I seem to remember the abrasive dirt on his backyard track (which is awesome) got into anything without a totally sealed drivetrain so belt drive was out for him and thus he stuck to the reliable shaft driven DF01.

[Jason1145]

Skip to 4:04 for the failure of my Manta Ray rear diff... after all my care and attention..... this was with a whole brand new rear gearbox fitted ( as the rear diff failed once before this video), new bearings and bushings and brass thingies, new rear plastic gears, the top diff cover was modded down with bolts and nuts so it can’t lift, and a nut on the screw that goes through the rear shock Tower so the nut effectively wedged down the top diff cover ( shock Tower side) to stop it lifting.... and somehow after 3-4 minutes brushless power doing a doughnut ( as shown in video) the bushing inside the idler gear cracked under the abuse allowing the idler gear to skip.... I had it so welded down it couldn’t lift so it thought... did it, I’ll kill my self another way - if I can’t lift like I want too... I’ll crack the bushing!

2s lipo on only a 3000kv motor I think.

I’d love to see a Manta Ray drive this quick and not fail... god help it if it jumps because I didn’t even get that far.

I think I know how to build a Tamiya and I got up close and very personal with this brand new rear diff ( geared) and gearbox issue but it still failed, I just had a lemon for sure.

Just giving my own account in history, it still won’t stop me trying the ReRe though, I hope for better luck

[TurnipJF]

Cracked bushing? Not surprising given your motor choice. I'd have thought bearings throughout would have been a better option. Something to consider for next time perhaps?

[topforcein]

my second rc just happened to be a manta ray as i could'nt afford the topforce at the time but my mate did get the top force and we used to spend a good few hours every sunday afternoon on the local school with them and tbh we was quite competative  we run i think around 10 turn brushed motors in them with foams on the wheels we only really stopped to change a battery and tbh the both of them never let us down apart from driver error and breaking a part of the rc they both was reliable i still have that manta ray along with my mates topforce in my loft.

know i would say what jason was doing in the video was inevatable to happen tbh lol but hey tha'ts all part of the fun of pushing a rc to it's limit and we are all responsable for doing that at some point i for one esp with my t-maxx and revo as i lost count on how mant times i had to replace the front end on them thanks to them dahm gutter jobbies in car parks.

i did'nt get a chance to buy the top-force re-re last year as i did'nt have the money and i am still p--sed off about that REALLY but i hope i can get my hands on the manta ray as long as it is price'd right.

[Prescient]

53 minutes ago, topforcein said:

.

i did'nt get a chance to buy the top-force re-re last year as i did'nt have the money and i am still p--sed off about that REALLY but i hope i can get my hands on the manta ray as long as it is price'd right.

You can still get the top force and for very sensible money.

https://tamico.de/Tamiya-Top-Force-2017-Bausatz-300047350

[Jason1145]

2 hours ago, TurnipJF said:

Cracked bushing? Not surprising given your motor choice. I'd have thought bearings throughout would have been a better option. Something to consider for next time perhaps?

 

It did have bearings throughout.. My bad terminology maybe when I said bushing... I was referring to these things Percymon mentioned that n my thread about it

Percymon - “Daft question, and not wanting to insult your build skills, but have you checked the plastic end caps are present on the small idler gear shaft - without these the idler will rise up under power and reduce gear mesh to almost nil.”

 

It was these plastic end caps that cracked under power.

[Saito2]

A rear ball diff may be the answer here. Now we can all go down a deep rabbit hole about the purpose and function of a ball diff (which I believe has changed to a degree over the years, especially with the advent of slipper clutches) but, to start, we'll keep it simple. The rear ball diff (something you'll notice Tamiya themselves added to the TA02T variants of this drivetrain) does add a degree of "cushioning" (for lack of a better word) to the gear train. The problem, as TAMark found, was when high power was added to the ball diff. The ball diff has shorter spline engagement of the drive cups vs the gear diff. While the ball diif would save the rear gear train under brushless power, the shorter spline area would strip out. The solution? Loctite on the shorter ball diff's shorter spline would preserve them.

[Jason1145]

@Saito yes I think that’s a good option with the loctiting ( I’ve heard super glue too?) the ball diff spine... pity I sold my MR

Ive just seen a few fast brushless MR’s on YouTube ( as fast as mine) and they all worked ok with no problems so maybe they did this mod too, anyhow I’m not degrading the MR at all, it’s an old buggy design from before the days of brushless tech and looks great imo.

Can anyone still answer Speedys question about what is a useable power source on the existing Manta Ray drivetrain with no mods done to it? How much more than a Silver can and Nimh can it take?

Edit : Just seen a video of a ReRe Bigwig handling a 3500kv motor with no drivetrain issues.. I might have to get that now instead of the MR to satisfy my desire for a quirky 4wd Tamiya Buggy.

[ThunderDragonCy]

My Terra Conqueror Evo was based on a vintage Blazing Star. Put the plastic gear set in and the screw and nut gearbox mods and it runs 3300kv brushless on 7.2 nimh no trouble at all. It's borderline dull. 

[Saito2]

35 minutes ago, Jason1145 said:

Can anyone still answer Speedys question about what is a useable power source on the existing Manta Ray drivetrain with no mods done to it? How much more than a Silver can and Nimh can it take?

Edit : Just seen a video of a ReRe Bigwig handling a 3500kv motor with no drivetrain issues.. I might have to get that now instead of the MR to satisfy my desire for a quirky 4wd Tamiya Buggy.

In answering Speedy's question, before even getting into the rear gear case issues, the Manta Ray  first needs an alloy motor mount when upgrading the motor (although, I'll go out on limb and say a mild Torque or Sport Tuned motor would certainly be ok). Beyond that, I'm unsure of how far you can push an unmodified DF01 rear gear case, although the advent of brushless power has definitely put it in the spotlight.

As far as the Big Wig goes, the drivetrain of the Hot Shot series of cars has actually proven to be quite sturdy for how old it is. 

[topforcein]

51 minutes ago, Jason1145 said:

 

Can anyone still answer Speedys question about what is a useable power source on the existing Manta Ray drivetrain with no mods done to it? How much more than a Silver can and Nimh can it take?

.

as i said early in my last post i ran a lrp black e motor a brushed one in my manta ray if i remember it was around 10 or 11 turn and ran a tekin esc on either 1600 or 1800 ni cads of the time and that was 1992 ish charged on a one of them rico fast charger things (witch i also still have and use). i think the only mods i did to my manta ray was ball race and a diff set of wheels as i dont like the dish wheels. i did on occasions run an  MRI, 19 Triple Modified ajustable timing. know as for brushless i cant comment .

ps i think a used  ray is gonna be on your list. 

[topforcein]

3 hours ago, Prescient said:

You can still get the top force and for very sensible money.

https://tamico.de/Tamiya-Top-Force-2017-Bausatz-300047350

the only prob i have wiht this is it has the very real chance of being caught by our best mates the customs then that wont make it worth buying tbh.

but it is cheap esp as no shipping costs.

[Man1c M0nk3y]

Just now, topforcein said:

the only prob i have wiht this is it has the very real chance of being caught by our best mates the customs then that wont make it worth buying tbh.

but it is cheap esp as no shipping costs.

Are you in the UK/EU? Didn’t think it mattered if so which is one of the bonuses of membership. 

[topforcein]

3 minutes ago, Man1c M0nk3y said:

Are you in the UK/EU? Didn’t think it mattered if so which is one of the bonuses of membership. 

i live in the uk but i have herd of members being stung by customs witch then dont make the rc cheap or even more than what it would cost if brought from a uk rc shop

[Man1c M0nk3y]

14 minutes ago, topforcein said:

i live in the uk but i have herd of members being stung by customs witch then dont make the rc cheap or even more than what it would cost if brought from a uk rc shop

Is that not a China etc issue hence why so many (eBay especially) sellers offer to mark the product/package down. 

Was just my understanding and I know that it’s popular to buy MTB parts from some of the big German places and never heard of people being stung (not to say it hasn’t happened). 

Model_Build on eBay have one available (£225) and there’s one under it for £198. 

More than Tamico but less hassle however I’m sure it doesn’t apply in the EU.

edit: @topforcein this reads to me as no duty to pay...

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/buying-goods-services-online-personal-use/buying-goods/buying-goods-online-coming-from-within-eu-union_en