Which Tamiya brushless motor for the Blackfoot?

[wilysloth 22]

I would like to increase my run times on my Blackfoot and gain a slight boost in acceleration and top speed over the silver-can motor in the process. I am running a Tamiya TBLE-02 ESC and would prefer not to run a fan.

I am aware I can get a better performing non-Tamiya motor/ESC combo for less money but I want to stay all Tamiya. Besides, given the weaknesses in the ORV's drivetrain I'm not after a big performance boost, ideally equivalent to what I believe a Tamiya Sport-Tuned brushed motor would deliver.

I think these are my options:
Number  Descr.          Type                            RPM     Timing          KV
54272   TBLM-01S        10.5T Sensored Brushless        24264   Fixed           3370
54273   TBLM-01S        12.5T Sensored Brushless        20160   Fixed           2800
54274   TBLM-01S        14.5T Sensored Brushless        17640   Fixed           2450
54611   TBLM-02S        10.5T Sensored Brushless        24264   Adjustable      3370
54612   TBLM-02S        15.5T Sensored Brushless        16560   Adjustable      2300

My Blackfoot is run hard on grass, mud and tarmac so I believe both 10.5T motors are out as they will require a fan (and will be much too "hot" anyway). Of the remaining three, I was leaning towards the TBLM-02S 15.5T (54612) but would like to ensure it will give me a performance boost over the silver-can. If not, then which one of the TBLM-01S motors (12.5T or 14.5T) would be the better fit?

Will the Fixed vs Adjustable Timing make a difference for my application? I don't yet understand what Timing refers to in this context. Can anyone help here?

Finally, will I need to change my pinion? With the increased torque from a brushless motor, move up from 10 teeth to 11 or 12?

[waterbok 1282]

Sounds like the first place to start is to invest in drive train improvement before throwing anything stronger against it.

maybe get a MIP diff before Trump makes them to expensive to lay our hands on

[wilysloth 22]

This particular Blackfoot is a vintage one from when I was little and has needed a complete strip down to become run-able again. In its current form I have been keen to avoid replacing any non-broken parts (so the TBLE-02 ESC mentioned above is actually still NIP as the MSC is still attached) lest the restoration makes this not "my" Blackfoot. My plan is to run it in its original state for a while before incrementally upgrading it. I have an MIP differential for just one such upgrade.

[Losi XXT-CR 147]

2 hours ago, wilysloth said:

 

I am aware I can get a better performing non-Tamiya motor/ESC combo for less money but I want to stay all Tamiya. .

Any real reason? Not saying you shouldn’t. But for bashing there are plenty of acceptable motors from £20-35 that will work with your ESC. No need to pay double just for it to say Tamiya on it. 

[wilysloth 22]

50 minutes ago, Losi XXT-CR said:

Any real reason? Not saying you shouldn’t. But for bashing there are plenty of acceptable motors from £20-35 that will work with your ESC. No need to pay double just for it to say Tamiya on it. 

I have considered a Speed Passion or HobbyWing 13.5T or 17.5T but for this car at least I want it all to match.

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

Adjustable timing is preferable over fixed timing. On all my motors you loosen the endbell and move that around which I think moves the sensor board and adjusts when the electromagnets are fired as the rotor goes past. This means you can set the timing for the application and have a bit more control over heat vs speed. There are a lot of articles about this if you are interested. One thing though, generally you set timing to its optimal point and then forget it, so assuming the fixed timing motor comes set at best efficiency it shouldn't really matter. I don't own a fixed timing motor so don't know this for sure though.

Any of those motors you have listed will give a performance boost. A 21.5T has replaced silvercan in onroad racing, and 17.5T in offroad to give you an idea.  I find the silvercan quick enough in a Monster Beetle but only run it in the backyard. I susoect the 12.5T will be too fast based on the 2800kv, I have a 3040kv 13.5T and that would be too fast in the Monster Beetle, but is great in a Boomerang. I also think that while the 14.5T will be fixed at the 2450kv, the 15.5T can probably match it (maybe with more heat) with timing right up.

One thing with brushless motors is they produce a lot more torque so you will probably need the biggest pinion you can fit in the Blackfoot

Is there any chance you can try out a friends car to get an idea of how fast they go? Everyones definition of 'a performance boost' is different

[Juggular 4964]

I like the list of performance comparison Jonathon gave.  

I have a vintage Blackfoot.  I've installed a brushed 21 turn black motor.  $15 upgrade wasn't sexy.  But it's fast enough for a top-heavy ORV.  Any faster, I'm afraid I would destroy the body.  With a black motor, mine once threw the octagon-dog-bone.  I was lucky to find it.  I didn't have any problem with the differential so far.  But with ORV, you never know.  

 

[wilysloth 22]

Thank you to everyone who has shared their experience.

I have been doing a fair amount of reading on motor timing and found the following guide very informative:

Motor Timing: Theory

I think I will be going with the Tamiya 54612 TBLM-02S 15.5T brushless motor and will report back once it (and the MIP differential) has been fitted (either in this thread or a build thread).

[J@mes 2326]

Apologies for dragging up a 9 month old thread, did you report back @wilysloth as I can’t find anything & aminterested to know 😀

[wilysloth 22]

11 hours ago, J@mes said:

Apologies for dragging up a 9 month old thread, did you report back @wilysloth as I can’t find anything & am interested to know 😀

I still haven't got round to replacing my motor yet as I need to restore the old hardbody shell first - something I have been putting off. I need to crack on with it this year.