17.5 vs 13.5 vs 540

[Saito2]

All things being equal (Tamiya TBLE-02S ESC, 7.2v Nimh pack) What is the performance comparison between say a Trackstar 17.5 vs 13.5 vs stock 540 silvercan? It used to be 17.5 was equal to a 540 but now as technology has improved that might not be the case(?) 

[Rb4276]

my kyosho 17.5 compared to my eco power 13.5 running with a tble02 esc was a big difference. I ran it with 2s lipo though. Now when i upgradeed to a hobbywing esc with 13.5 it was significant difference. I would nver use a tble02 now unless it was a re re that i didnt want crazy power in

[Losi XXT-CR]

39 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

All things being equal (Tamiya TBLE-02S ESC, 7.2v Nimh pack) What is the performance comparison between say a Trackstar 17.5 vs 13.5 vs stock 540 silvercan? It used to be 17.5 was equal to a 540 but now as technology has improved that might not be the case(?) 

Don’t know about on Nimh. But a 13.5 vs silvercan on a 2S LiPo is a big difference. I struggle to believe a silvercan would match a 17.5

[Losi XXT-CR]

18 minutes ago, Rb4276 said:

my kyosho 17.5 compared to my eco power 13.5 running with a tble02 esc was a big difference. I ran it with 2s lipo though. Now when i upgradeed to a hobbywing esc with 13.5 it was significant difference. I would nver use a tble02 now unless it was a re re that i didnt want crazy power in

Nothing wrong with the TBLE02. Changing ESC on the same motor should make little performance difference unless it had the end point set wrongly for one of them. 

[Saito2]

So a 17.5 performs noticeably better than a silvercan?

[Mahjik]

1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

So a 17.5 performs noticeably better than a silvercan?

Most of the silvercans I researched had specs that ranged between 20T and 27T.  A strong 17.5T should be noticeably quicker than a silvercan.

[Jonathon Gillham]

Yep a 17.5T should be quite a bit quicker than a silvercan. If you can gear the 17.5T properly then it should be a lot faster and still have better acceleration, but with the limited gearing options on some models you may not notice it. I was underwhelmed when swapping from torque tuned to 13.5T or 17.5T in a TT02B with stock gearing, until i got a bigger pinion. When I tried the torque tuned with the bigger pinion it was slower than with the smaller one.

[ThunderDragonCy]

3 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Yep a 17.5T should be quite a bit quicker than a silvercan. If you can gear the 17.5T properly then it should be a lot faster and still have better acceleration, but with the limited gearing options on some models you may not notice it. I was underwhelmed when swapping from torque tuned to 13.5T or 17.5T in a TT02B with stock gearing, until i got a bigger pinion. When I tried the torque tuned with the bigger pinion it was slower than with the smaller one.

Exactly this. After Jonathan's advice on this I upped the pinions in my Thunder Dragon from 14t to 17t with the 17.5t motor (I am running 8.4V NiMH on a TBLE-02S though) and it flies. Up the timing the end bell and I cannot imagine a silvercan would get close. That said a 13.5t seems like a really nice middle ground of plenty of poke without being mental.

[Phil5556]

23 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Exactly this. After Jonathan's advice on this I upped the pinions in my Thunder Dragon from 14t to 17t with the 17.5t motor (I am running 8.4V NiMH on a TBLE-02S though) and it flies. Up the timing the end bell and I cannot imagine a silvercan would get close. That said a 13.5t seems like a really nice middle ground of plenty of poke without being mental.

Just a sidenote: I think I remember you saying you were disappointed with the speed of a Top Force with a 10.5 (or maybe 13.5) in Vs it's speed in other cars?

Well I was disappointed too and progressively upped the pinions. Started with a 17 I think, but now have a 22 with a smaller spur gear and now it flies, and the motor doesn't even get warm. Going to try a 23 as I have one and reckon it might be the sweet spot. So with BL motors it seems it's all about gearing, which is wildly different to brushed gearing (at least on my Trackstar motor).

[ThunderDragonCy]

3 minutes ago, Phil5556 said:

Just a sidenote: I think I remember you saying you were disappointed with the speed of a Top Force with a 10.5 (or maybe 13.5) in Vs it's speed in other cars?

Well I was disappointed too and progressively upped the pinions. Started with a 17 I think, but now have a 22 with a smaller spur gear and now it flies, and the motor doesn't even get warm. Going to try a 23 as I have one and reckon it might be the sweet spot. So with BL motors it seems it's all about gearing, which is wildly different to brushed gearing (at least on my Trackstar motor).

Agreed. I tried the kit 21t pinion in mine and it just didn't wake up at all. I couldn't find the speed tuned gearset for any sensible money. What spur did you get?

[MadInventor]

13 minutes ago, Phil5556 said:

Just a sidenote: I think I remember you saying you were disappointed with the speed of a Top Force with a 10.5 (or maybe 13.5) in Vs it's speed in other cars?

Well I was disappointed too and progressively upped the pinions. Started with a 17 I think, but now have a 22 with a smaller spur gear and now it flies, and the motor doesn't even get warm. Going to try a 23 as I have one and reckon it might be the sweet spot. So with BL motors it seems it's all about gearing, which is wildly different to brushed gearing (at least on my Trackstar motor).

+1. When I built the War Rig I originally had it geared to do around 30mph (Which it achieved, but was crazy scary to drive at 8ft long) and the motor got quite hot after about 5mins. Geared it down to around 17mph and now the motor barely gets warm, the speed of the truck even corresponds to the no-load rpm calculation more or less, so gearing is the key. Brushless can handle much higher gearing than brushed motors.

[Phil5556]

1 hour ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Agreed. I tried the kit 21t pinion in mine and it just didn't wake up at all. I couldn't find the speed tuned gearset for any sensible money. What spur did you get?

Got the speed tuned from a German mail order shop, was about £20 delivered. Think the spur I'm using is 69… comes with a 66 aswell.

[Saito2]

The 13.5 I'm considering as a motor for my vintage 4wds (Boomerang, etc.). Hopefully its something along the line of a Tamiya Superstock motor. If its noticeably quicker than a silvercan the 17.5 would go in my re-re Bruiser. I know I'm going to get screams and cries to put a crawler motor in that, but I want my re-re to approach the speed and power of the old 750 powered original Bruiser. The current one is geared waaay lower than the original. Its a delicate balance as I want to speed the truck up a bit, but not over power it as its not designed for true high speed.

[MadInventor]

1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

The 13.5 I'm considering as a motor for my vintage 4wds (Boomerang, etc.). Hopefully its something along the line of a Tamiya Superstock motor. If its noticeably quicker than a silvercan the 17.5 would go in my re-re Bruiser. I know I'm going to get screams and cries to put a crawler motor in that, but I want my re-re to approach the speed and power of the old 750 powered original Bruiser. The current one is geared waaay lower than the original. Its a delicate balance as I want to speed the truck up a bit, but not over power it as its not designed for true high speed.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[Jonathon Gillham]

5 hours ago, Saito2 said:

The 13.5 I'm considering as a motor for my vintage 4wds (Boomerang, etc.). Hopefully its something along the line of a Tamiya Superstock motor. If its noticeably quicker than a silvercan the 17.5 would go in my re-re Bruiser. I know I'm going to get screams and cries to put a crawler motor in that, but I want my re-re to approach the speed and power of the old 750 powered original Bruiser. The current one is geared waaay lower than the original. Its a delicate balance as I want to speed the truck up a bit, but not over power it as its not designed for true high speed.

I run a 13.5T in my Boomerang with the TBLE-02S on NiMH and the biggest pinion (17T I think) that the Boomerang allows and its great.  Really nice to drive, plenty fast but not overpowered.  Even with the biggest pinion the motor could handle a bigger one but I'm not going to modify the chassis or gearbox to get the FDR better matched to the motor.

[Saito2]

Awesome. Good to hear.

[MICHAELs TopForce17]

 I put a trackstar v2 13.5 and 17 pinion with tble02s in my nephews dt03 and didn’t seem much faster! Does adjusting the timing on the back of a brushless make the motor faster?Is 19 the largest pinion on a dt03?

[Jonathon Gillham]

1 hour ago, MICHAELs TopForce17 said:

 I put a trackstar v2 13.5 and 17 pinion with tble02s in my nephews dt03 and didn’t seem much faster! Does adjusting the timing on the back of a brushless make the motor faster?Is 19 the largest pinion on a dt03?

Yes you can adjust timing on the endbell by sliding that around.  The more advanced timing means more rpm and more amp draw and more heat.  So you generally run a smaller pinion for more timing and vice versa.  Its a tradeoff, generally though you find the sweet spot as far as timing goes and then gear according to the heat, ie the biggest pinion you can run while not overheating the motor.

[steelo]

On 3/23/2018 at 3:43 PM, Saito2 said:

The 13.5 I'm considering as a motor for my vintage 4wds (Boomerang, etc.). Hopefully its something along the line of a Tamiya Superstock motor. If its noticeably quicker than a silvercan the 17.5 would go in my re-re Bruiser. I know I'm going to get screams and cries to put a crawler motor in that, but I want my re-re to approach the speed and power of the old 750 powered original Bruiser. The current one is geared waaay lower than the original. Its a delicate balance as I want to speed the truck up a bit, but not over power it as its not designed for true high speed.

I used a Radient Reaktor 13.5T brushless motor in my re re Optima and with the stock gearing, it is nearly the perfect balance of acceleration and top end speed.  The top end is a touch slow but the motor barely gets warm after every run so I could probably go up a tooth or two on the pinion.