New to racing - TA02 vs TA06

[humbug 36]

After getting tired of bashing over the last 25 years, I think I might be ready to get into racing.

Though I'm not 100% certain which chassis I should start out with. I have a classic TA02 (IMSA 300zx) and is probably suited for my skill level. However it is a very expensive kit. $850 AUD on ebay. So I really don't want to break it.

So I recently bought a new TA06. Though its potential is probably WAY above my skill level. So I have been advised by 1 person so far to run the TA02 (Though I'm still concerned about breaking it)

So which would be best to learn on? I also picked up a TRF414 for when my skills improve (and is a classic that I don't want to break), so that probably wont be driving that for a very long time.

From what I've been told about my local track is that I am restricted to Yokomo/Awesomatix/XRAY/Mugen/VBC chassis if I want to race. Plus I'll need to buy a new radio (40MHz FM isn't allowed), new brushless motor, esc, approved batteries and bodies etc.

It kind of sucks that Tamiya isn't allowed - or any of my old existing stuff for that matter. Is that unusual? :/ Thoughts?

[InsaneJim69 1584]

Personally I would have looked for a used TA05, or even a TA05R both are far better for racing than the TA06. The 05 is such a stable and well balanced car, whether it be in stock motor class or full on modified class. I used to run my TA05R with a 3.5T Novak brushless motor and it handled it with ease. The TA06 never really caught on in the racing scene, not many people switched from their 05's as the 06 was a strange car to setup correctly if at all. But it's strange they say your not allowed a certain brand, never heard of that before. The rules are usually 4wd chassis that is 190mm wide. Bodies wise there can be restrictions as well as motors and batteries. I know one of my local clubs only allows the use of hardcase lipos and you can only charge at a maximum of 1C. But chassis wise they are open. Where are you based? As some hobby shops have great deals on the slightly older Yokomo MR4TC BD5's which are a cracking chassis for beginners or experts (around £160gbp) brand new here.

On another note , there is no way I would crack open the TA02 kit to race. It's a rare kit these days especially with that body, and you can easily pick up a TA02 for decent money brand new with the Porsche releases.

James. 

[Jonathon Gillham 4605]

That does seem strange that a brand is banned from racing, i would look into that.

I run a TA07 and it holds its own against far more expensive opposition. Personally I would pick up a TA07 as they are the latest TA series car so will have years of support etc to come, and are competitive. Being new and inexperienced doesn't men you can't have a competitive kit. They are also reasonably priced for the Pro (but factor in the swaybar set) or you could get the R for more upfront but then no hopups required.

There is a VBC kit which is comparable price to the TA07 Pro which a few at my club race.

As for motor and esc just go for decent bottom end like Hobbywing, Speed Passion or even Trackstar if on a budget.

Servos, savox are really good (the 1251MG is a great performer for the price) or once again try the Trackstar equivalent whcih is about half the price.

[humbug 36]

I guess I'll have to stick with that TA06... since I already have it. It can't really be that bad? Is it? Since I'm only learning, there is no way I'd be pushing anywhere near the limits to complain about the chassis? I actually really wanted a TA07 but there are no kits on ebay... at all  Plus, I wanted the inboard shocks because I wanted to fit a Mazda 787B shell. I guess I'm more of a scale modeller rather than a racer. Though scaled models in motion is beauty  

Speaking of the TA02 kit being too rare to race - I've really been torn about how I should paint the body. I really wasn't sure if I should paint it in race colours or if I should paint it to match my real 300zx. Would painting it non-standard colours /not using the decals be the same as ruining it? I think the moment I opened the 'new in box' kit, its value went down the toilet...
So I was thinking about getting another Tamiya body instead, but they all seem to be really expensive too  Toms Castrol Supra, 1996 Celica GT4 or an R32 group A GTR would have been nice. All of which are going for several hundreds of dollars.
I even looked into finding another 300zx body but also seems to be discontinued as well.  sigh...

[humbug 36]

Oh also, I don't think Tamiya's banned... just that I needed a chassis from those other manufacturers if I want to race... Though thats probably the same thing :/ 

[Jonathon Gillham 4605]

27 minutes ago, humbug said:

I guess I'll have to stick with that TA06... since I already have it. It can't really be that bad? Is it? Since I'm only learning, there is no way I'd be pushing anywhere near the limits to complain about the chassis? I actually really wanted a TA07 but there are no kits on ebay... at all  Plus, I wanted the inboard shocks because I wanted to fit a Mazda 787B shell. I guess I'm more of a scale modeller rather than a racer. Though scaled models in motion is beauty  

Speaking of the TA02 kit being too rare to race - I've really been torn about how I should paint the body. I really wasn't sure if I should paint it in race colours or if I should paint it to match my real 300zx. Would painting it non-standard colours /not using the decals be the same as ruining it? I think the moment I opened the 'new in box' kit, its value went down the toilet...
So I was thinking about getting another Tamiya body instead, but they all seem to be really expensive too  Toms Castrol Supra, 1996 Celica GT4 or an R32 group A GTR would have been nice. All of which are going for several hundreds of dollars.
I even looked into finding another 300zx body but also seems to be discontinued as well.  sigh...

Nice, I always liked the 300ZX. A mate had the 350Z but it just wasn't the same.

I had to wait as well for a TA07, Tamiya don't sell them in New Zealand and the usual suspects like RCMart and RCJaz were out of stock. Found one at Hobbyking.

Since you have the TA06 run that and then see how you like racing. I doubt a chassis is going to make that much difference early, its about getting consistent and avoiding marshalls! I find that I swing from thinking rc racing is awesome to hating it, often over a single lap...

[WillyChang 1814]

Where are you & who's this restrictive racetrack? 

Nothing wrong with TA06, they handle pretty well. Doesn't need much hopups but I like TRF shocks for fine tuning. Inboard suspension can be trickier to setup properly without experience; if you haven't bought the Pro then it's a bit convoluted to get IFS-long-shaft TRF shocks otherwise.

TA02 is too antiquated & heavy; the "value" is all in the "rare" bodyset (I assume you bought the IMSA Zed?) as the TA02 chassis is still being cranked out new today - rare that is not. 

414 ain't that special today on track, it's not better than TA04... I think TA05 would have better CoG and the TA06 is probably better balanced  

IMSA Zed never been officially repopped afaik but 5-10yrs ago there were a bunch of shell moldings still floating about on market.

Yellow ABC shell was made 20-25yrs ago & isn't all that great by ABC standards. 

The red 300ZX is by Pandora I think? They should still be around but Pandora makes small batches every now & again, longish periods of no-stock in between.

 

[Mad Ax 9295]

I would imagine your club has recommended those chassis because that's what everyone else races - the idea being you'll get better help from other racers if you stick with what they run.  I can personally vouch for the value in sticking with what's known - I always tried to be leftfield, I stuck with Tamiya when everyone else had Shumacher or X-Ray, I bought and ran a Corally RDX for a while when pretty much nobody was racing Corally in the UK.  I bought a Team Magic E4JS off a mate who had been topping the timesheets with it, but never really found a good balance for me.

That's not to say you can't run whatever you want, but you'll find you learn how to set up your car quicker if you're getting setup advice from people who have been running the same car for a while.

I raced a TA05 IFS a few years back but in the end I switched to conventional front shocks and the ubiquitous Mazda 6 body because I could understand the setup better on a conventional layout (plus the 05 had some bizarre lack of mechanical grip that nobody at the track could explain).  At the same time, the club's reigning champion was topping the timesheets with a TA06.  That's a slightly unconventional car too.

I wouldn't bother racing the TA02 at all.  You won't learn anything (besides basic car control) by running it.  By all means build it and play with it if that's your thing but it'll be so far outclassed on track that you won't know where your driving skill ends and the car's limitations begin.  Actually I noticed this phenomenon when I went from a TT01 with Tamiya CVAs to a Corally RDX - for two years I'd thought I was crashing into the walls because I had poor car control skills.  After one race I learnt that 50% of my crashes were down to the TT01 being bad-handling and unpredictable on a tight carpet track.  Sure, the other 50% were all my fault, but that's still a huge improvement.  If you're running a car that isn't behaving predictably then you don't have much hope of learning car control with it.

If I was going back to touring car racing today then I'd be asking the club what the favourite chassis is and start there.  I wouldn't be buying the top-spec worlds-class car with all the hop-ups to go with it, but I'd get something that other people are racing so I can share their setups and learn the best upgrade path.  I was desperate to stick with Tamiya, I'd probably go with a TA07 (probably one of the hot models that comes with a few essential hopups as standard) or if I was feeling real flush, a TRF car, but personally I think it's difficult to justify being leftfield if you're not also experienced enough to work with an unknown car.

 

Oh, by the way, I'm going touring car racing on Thursday with a TL01LA, which is about as leftfield as it gets.  I've got one set of tyres that haven't been used in about 5 years and a couple of other sets of unknown origin which are probably missing inserts.  I very much expect to come plum last but at least my LA will get a run before the Iconic Cup vintage series starts next month  

[WillyChang 1814]

nah, it really annoys the locals when an alien turns up & beats them with some oddball car  that's Tamiya's niche, before they started winning IFMARs

supposedly today's equivalent of TL01LA is the TT02 Type S... it's a totally unassuming looking chassis, but can do some damage in the right hands at club level.

[humbug 36]

Ax, Willy, Cheers for the input. I'll have to look into it in more detail tomorrow.
But yup, they said thats what everyone else was running - so that when I smash mine, I'll have easy access to spare parts. Mind you I'd rather not get into the habit of crashing. I figure: The worse the consequences, the more careful I'll be. Good point about predictability though. My TA02 has all the fancy hop-ups. Maybe someone experienced would be able to set it up properly. Though its pretty heavy at the moment. 1585g unpainted and narrow wheels.

I personally don't care about being slow. Just want to start learning basic car control and have fun driving. Luckily I'm not a competitive person, so I should be happy with a 'participation award' and a car that isn't smashed.

One thing I've noticed though; why on earth is the mazda 6 so popular??? Seriously, my grandpa drives one. With so many cool cars to chose from, I don't get why everyone goes for that shape :S

[Mad Ax 9295]

1 hour ago, WillyChang said:

nah, it really annoys the locals when an alien turns up & beats them with some oddball car  that's Tamiya's niche, before they started winning IFMARs

supposedly today's equivalent of TL01LA is the TT02 Type S... it's a totally unassuming looking chassis, but can do some damage in the right hands at club level.

Too true - I love the idea of arriving with a random choice and beating everyone.  The problem is I can't beat anyone with a top-spec current car, let alone with a thirty year old Tamiya.

My club always suggested the TT01 (and latterly the TT02) for novices and children, because they're cheap to buy and work out of the box.  But there's always that unpredictability (especially in a bone stock car) that makes them hard to learn with once you get basic car control down.  The Type S with its CVAs, toe-in rear and turnbuckles has that extra bit of stability that makes it a bit dangerous in the hands of a top racer.  Problem is if you start with a TT02 and upgrade to Type S spec you're not that far off having bought a better car to start with.

I was very suprised how stable and controllable my TL01LA was when I tested on the tarmac out the back of my house on Sunday afternoon.  Even with old Tamiya slicks it felt very responsive and reassuring.  It has TRF shocks fitted but I didn't even begin to set them up yet, they've just been installed as-is.  I'll hand my controller over to someone who won a few rounds of the Iconic Cup with a TL01LA a couple of years back and get his setup advice; would love to see what times he can get with it compared to his current racer.

59 minutes ago, humbug said:

One thing I've noticed though; why on earth is the mazda 6 so popular??? Seriously, my grandpa drives one. With so many cool cars to chose from, I don't get why everyone goes for that shape :S

The Mazda 6 works well because of the aerodynamics.  Actually the shell isn't shaped much like a road-going Mazda 6, it's a jellymould shape that people use because it works.  When you're pushing the top of the timesheets every week then you take every advantage you can get.

When I started racing my TA05 IFS, it came with a Nissan Ebbro 350R body with an ABS plastic wing.  One night I caught the wing on the track barrier and ripped it off.  Straight away the handling changed and I lost rear traction.  I would never ever have believed that aerodynamics had any effect on 1:10 touring racing if I hadn't experienced it myself.  I manufactured a wing by moulding some tape around the back of the shell, which helped a little, but I got the best improvement by switching to a proper mazdaspeed shell and wing.

Personally I hate all modern touring bodies and I'd much rather race in a series that only allows scale saloon bodies.  The problem with that is that after a few seasons everybody would home in on the one scale saloon body with the best handling characteristics and soon enough everybody would have the exact same body.  And out of 20 series entrants, I'd guess 7 of them would send them to the same pro body painter for near-as-dammit the same tribal flames paint job, 10 of them would paint the whole shell in a single colour (and probably use decals instead of masks for the windows) and only 3 would actually bother to do a scale and period correct racing paint scheme.  Because after all, paint doesn't make you go faster.  You can almost guarantee there would be at least one person that wouldn't bother to fit the light or grille decals, or worse still, would misread the instructions and fit them incorrectly.  Such is the world of club racing

[qatmix 794]

Here is my take on it.

Do not bother racing the TA02. Just go straight for the TA06. It is much much better than the TA02 (And the TRF414 in reality, especially as yours will no doubt have a one way installed, which is a nightmare to drive with on brushless if you are not used to it)

As mentioned above the TA06 was a bit quirky compared to the TA05 which was a brilliant chassis. However once you got on top of it's quirks it was also very decent, if you are running stock motors (13.5 Blinky or below) you will not have any of the main quirks exhibit themselves. If racing I would suggest you fit the shocks so they stand up, the IFS shocks just add weight and they are a little more hassle to get the right spring strength sorted. 

Again if racing, get a proper racing shell, the Bitty Design M410 is nice and light, provides balance better than the Mazda 6 and actually looks pretty good for a competitive racing shell. 

Also your club will allow Tamiya, it's just that they dont mention it as it's not a common racing chassis manufacturer. You will be able to race any 1/10 chassis as long as it complies with the rules (Motor tyres etc). 

Importantly, just have fun, the TA06 is a decent car and you will not need to upgrade it until you can do a full 5 minutes consistently without hitting anything. If you are hitting things then you will not benefit from a top end chassis, as the difference in lap time is only at the sharp end of racing, every collision costs you more time than spending multiple hundreds on a top chassis. 

What track / surface are you running on. I still have my set-up sheets from the TA06 knocking around so I can look and find something that might help for a starting set-up. 

Also getting onto the subject of being leftfield.. I'm doing some nationals this year, and I am not racing my TRF419XR, but the TT02-Type-S (Thanks to a drunken bet with a friend).. Ulp!