macmeniac 3 Posted March 29, 2018 I'm interested in buying a damper oil air remover from Tamiya but I found only this: Tamiya 54152 Damper Oil Air Remover (Super Long) Is this remover only for long dampers or for all Tamiya dampers? I found no other tool from Tamiya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted March 29, 2018 You can use it for anything that will fit inside I use the std size one from a few yrs ago, perfect for touring car & 1/10 buggy shocks. the superlong is for off-road buggy with extra long dampers... possibly 1/8th? The extra volume will need extra pumping to build vacuum unless you fill that void somehow. fyi they're manufactured by Ride Japan... heck you've even gotta stick your own Tamiya label on it yourself its just a vacuum chamber if you remember your school physics. There's other suitable household tools that could work... I've seen "meat marinating" vac gadgets, vacuvin suckers for your wine bottle etc etc crazy what's in my kitchen hahahaha 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juggular 4964 Posted March 29, 2018 I found that the "air" you get often isn't from the air in the oil. It's the air you put in when capping. No matter how careful you are, you end up touching the rubber seal. When that happens, air goes in. I found that leaving some oil around the rubber seal makes it better. If you touch the seal slightly with the cap (Y2), oil goes in instead of air. You can wipe the oil off after capping with Y2. I also like to leave the piston 1/4 or 1/3 way up. That way, oil seal does not push the piston on its own like an air-spring. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyForbes 63 Posted March 29, 2018 3 hours ago, WillyChang said: You can use it for anything that will fit inside I use the std size one from a few yrs ago, perfect for touring car & 1/10 buggy shocks. the superlong is for off-road buggy with extra long dampers... possibly 1/8th? The extra volume will need extra pumping to build vacuum unless you fill that void somehow. fyi they're manufactured by Ride Japan... heck you've even gotta stick your own Tamiya label on it yourself its just a vacuum chamber if you remember your school physics. There's other suitable household tools that could work... I've seen "meat marinating" vac gadgets, vacuvin suckers for your wine bottle etc etc crazy what's in my kitchen hahahaha You can also try a Pellet Pump that anglers use like this. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Band-it-Pellet-Pump-Carp-Fishing-Match-Expander-Pellets-/141711108764 I've been planning to pick one up for a while, and add a bit of cardboard with holes in near the top to hold the dampers up-right. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted March 30, 2018 7 hours ago, Juggular said: I found that the "air" you get often isn't from the air in the oil. It's the air you put in when capping. Nah I find most of the problematic bubbles that the vac can helps most with are trapped under the piston or at the o-rings. Other bubbles in oil above you can leave standing uncapped (overnight or longer) & they'll rise up themselves, but not the trapped air. Very obvious when building Clear CVAs... got unhealthy attraction to those 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macmeniac 3 Posted March 30, 2018 is this product for standard touring cars dampers? http://www.rcmart.com/ride-29100-remover-short-version-with-pouch-p-67046.html?cPath=389_1344 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted March 30, 2018 yeah that short version should be fine for touringcar, maybe too short for the longer CVAs used on buggy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathon Gillham 4607 Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/30/2018 at 6:03 AM, Juggular said: I found that the "air" you get often isn't from the air in the oil. It's the air you put in when capping. No matter how careful you are, you end up touching the rubber seal. When that happens, air goes in. I found that leaving some oil around the rubber seal makes it better. If you touch the seal slightly with the cap (Y2), oil goes in instead of air. You can wipe the oil off after capping with Y2. I also like to leave the piston 1/4 or 1/3 way up. That way, oil seal does not push the piston on its own like an air-spring. What does having the piston 1/4 or 1/3 of the way up do? I mean the science behind it (its ok if you just tried it and it works but you don't know how, that just proves magic is real). I make them the same way as you, leave the oil until the lid is on in the hope that this makes a better seal and so far so good, I think. In saying that I don't know if I'm doing it right or wrong but since they're all the same they seem fine to me 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78Triumph 2610 Posted March 30, 2018 I found that it helps that you screw the cap on very very slowly to give time for the air to escape. I hold it next to my ear and you can hear air being expelled every quarter turn of the cap or so. I also let the shocks sit with the oil in them as I assemble the next shock, then go back after it's sat for a few minutes. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juggular 4964 Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said: What does having the piston 1/4 or 1/3 of the way up do? I mean the science behind it (its ok if you just tried it and it works but you don't know how, that just proves magic is real). I make them the same way as you, leave the oil until the lid is on in the hope that this makes a better seal and so far so good, I think. In saying that I don't know if I'm doing it right or wrong but since they're all the same they seem fine to me Sorry, Jonathon, the only magic is that this could sound rather kinky (only if the reader has a dirty mind--which is no fault of my own). The yellow CVA has a hole in the cap so this tendency is not noticeable. But recent shocks have no air hole on the cap (like Y2 above). The cap and the rubber creates an air pocket above the seal. The piston head has its own holes, so it can come through oil. The real magic is in the rod, not the head. The steel rod coming up through the rubber O-rings introduces extra volume into the cylinder body. You see, the rod is hanging out usually. When it encounters a shock, the rod gets shoved into the body. Because the rod isn't made out of rubber, but rock hard material, the volume of the steel rod into the oil has to be absorbed somewhere else. That's why the oil seal is an inverted dome shape. If it didn't give room for air, the cylinder body would explode (or the piston rod doesn't move). This trapped air works like air spring of a big real-life truck and shoves the rod down even without the help of a spring. If you want your shock to be increasingly stiffer as it contracts, you can build shocks with rods all the way down. If you build the shock with the rod all the way in, the air is stretched when the rod is pulled out, so it wants to suck the rod back in (I don't think stretching the rubber that much is a good idea though). Again, what I'm describing has nothing to do with the piston head. It has everything to do with the volume of the rod. I build them with rods about 1/4 way in. So the comfortable range of motion would be within the cylinder body --- and the shock wouldn't be biased toward pushing. About 1/8th in is where the natural sag of the springs are, due to the weight of the car too. This tends to make the shock react little more smoothly at lower end. Kinda like barrel springs having a soft range. All this doesn't make a whole lot of difference (maybe enough to push the weight of 5-6 coins per shock). I just like to play with these things. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted March 31, 2018 33 minutes ago, Juggular said: Sorry, Jonathon, the only magic is that this could sound rather kinky (only if the reader has a dirty mind--which is no fault of my own). The yellow CVA has a hole in the cap so this tendency is not noticeable. But recent shocks have no air hole on the cap (like Y2 above). The cap and the rubber creates an air pocket above the seal. Did they ever have a hole in in the cap in early days? (Not talking the slot across the threads, that gets sealed once cap is tight) All my CVA caps in recent decades have been molded sealed; there's a convenient dimple in the middle underneath but it's not a vent - easiest to see on clear CVAs. DIY if you like them vented Talking of sexy... use this Losi seesaw to balance shocks its surprisingly sensitive showing you every reaction as you pump the Pistons in & out. That silky smooth glide from freshly lubed seals is memorable. Just make sure the nuts are tight so the screws don't get floppy loose in the holes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juggular 4964 Posted March 31, 2018 All CVA shocks I have are from 90's. I suspect that Tamiya found incidences where the oil seals collapse up and down if there is a hole. That would negate the damping effect. That's why we don't see holes in the cap anymore (at least, so I think). I could have sworn that the shock balance was about $50. I couldn't spend $50. But now amain sells it at $37. Since I like playing with shocks, getting one might be a good idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saito2 6686 Posted March 31, 2018 All my vintage short and mini CVAs do not have any holes in the caps. All my long vintage CVAs do have holes in the caps. Perhaps the longer rod of the long shocks took up too much volume in the oil chamber at full compression so the cap hole was added to alleviate this? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juggular 4964 Posted April 1, 2018 I didn't notice that only long vintage CVAs had the holes. Saito2's suggestion made me wonder if the rod could even touch the seal. But for some reason, I put a short rod in the long CVA body, so I could not check that... I've long forgotten why I put shorter rods in these... obviously to shorten the lengths, but for which car, I wonder... As for WillyChang's shock balancer, I ended up ordering a used one for $25. I tell you, Tamiya Club isn't the best place for minimalism. We all love tools, and with one suggestion, I end up getting a special tool. As I've said, the force is not strong with me. Even though I only paid for it 5 minutes ago, I am already worried that the see-saw scale design is less than ideal. It reminds me of a tiny dog-eared 1/2 gram metal sheet that could tilt the scale. I think I had a scale like that. (If I ask missus "didn't we have something like that?" She'd say, "Oh, yeah, I don't know." But we both know that it wasn't our tiny dog who tossed it... not a big loss, if I don't even remember using it more than once. Mine was much more modern than the one in the photo). At any rate, I think there should be something like a 2:1 gear in the middle so the needle would turn at 2:1 ratio? If I put a penny on each side, it might show that both sides are uneven, depends on how I put them on. RC cars won't respond to the weight of a fraction of a penny. But I can't wait to get my hands on it and test it out anyway (the shock balancer, not the 100 year old scale). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted April 2, 2018 Asians have balance scales... ...whose accuracy in hands of experienced user can be to micrograms/grains/troyOz to rival a digital scale yeah I only paid about $20ish. Had tried DIYing various attempts before that and realised it couldn't be done myself for that price... it's pretty amazing solid piece of kit for that price -thanks you Losi. (I also buy Losi shock oil for their rainbow colours) Nah seesaw balance doesn't work on gravity, it's just the relative "force" difference between 2 shocks. It swings towards the "weaker" side which usually means that one has thinner oil, bigger piston hole, fluid is getting around the piston etc etc... or other side seals are dragging or the shaft is scored or... Sometimes the balance swings opposite between moving the slider fast vs moving it slow... the pros say it's due to "pack" but have no fr1.gging clue how to fix want more tools? gotta have padded pliers to hold those golden TRF shafts yeah, ok, THAT exact pair is CRAZY EXPENSIVE $40!!?! so some suckers are getting bent over and pineappled ('BOHICA!')... plus it's just LABELLED by Tamiya, so somebody outside makes them afaik... tips need replacing too... am thinking of drawing up some plastic covers for existing micro pliers; or I put heater hose over longnose vicegrips For now i just make do with this toy from 3Racing, they simply made the whole pliers from plastic i think it arrived with some car kit of theirs, so that's an even less-cheap way of buying specialty pliers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
