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colda

TC racing TT02 vs TA03F

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At some point in the non too distant future I would like to have a go at TC racing, I have a TA03F which is nice but hasn't been used in about 10 years, decision is do I sell the TA03F to help fund the purchase of a TT02 (Type S) or do I stick with the TA03F? 

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Is there a class you are aiming for or just touring cars in general?

Personally I wouldn't go with a TT02, even though the Type S is apparently very good for a TT02, I would look at the TA07 or the newly announced TB05 if you prefer shaft drive and can wait for it. The TA or TB cars are great value for money and a big step up from a TT (I have TT02B and TA07  and TRF102 which are the basis for my comparison). Hex head screws, better plastic, no slop in suspension or steering etc etc. The TA07 is closer to the TRF102 than the TT02

My club runs a TT02 class (Type S is banned though) and I know there are classes which require older cars, so if you are aiming for something like that then ignore me.

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Not looked too deeply into classes as yet, I know one local club runs a stock TC class which is limited to the TT01(e) and TT02 chassis but I suppose at this point it's more a case of just putting together a car and then thinking about specific classes and where to race later (might not be the most sensible approach)

I'm already in need to counselling due to my spending on this addiction, I fear divorce if I were to dive in and just buy something like a TA07 at this point, hence the decision between my TA03F and something like a TT02 but from what you've said, the idea of sticking with the TA03F (or perhaps a TA01 that I have) in the short term and then upgrading later might be the best option

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I have not driven or raced either the TT02 or TA03, but I do own a few TA03's though..

If it was my choice, I would go with the TA03, mainly to it being better quality (i.e. having oil shocks) and that it has some pedigree in racing (David Jun)..

If you already own a TA03F, then race that.. Personally I would do a full tear down and rebuild on the car, replacing any damaged or broken parts.. I would replace any bushings in the car with bearings, and also clean the existing bearings to make sure that they rotate smoothly, and then add a drop or two of light oil (eg sewing machine oil) to keep them lubricated.. I would clean the old grease from the gears, and then add a small amount of fresh grease on reassembly.. If it has ball diffs, again, disassemble and clean them, and then reassemble with fresh Ball diff grease.. Check all rotating parts for excessive wear, and replace them as required.. The CVA shocks I would check for bent or damaged shafts and then refill them with new silicone oil.. If the shocks leak, rebuild them with fresh O-rings.. When you reassemble the shocks, check that both the front and both the rear shocks are the same length, and have similar rebound characteristics.. Check for bent hinge pins in the arms as well..

That should get you up and running with a reliable car...

You haven't mentioned what motor / class that you plan to race in, so I would suggest that you look into that as you may need to get a motor and also some other (bigger?) pinion gears to suit the TA03.. I would also look at what surface that you will be racing on, as you may need to get some more race orientated tyres (i.e. the tyres that they run at the club/track that you plan to race at), if the tyres that you have now are totally unsuitable.... If you have any extra TC size springs or shock collars / adjusters, then take them with you as well.. That should get you ready to race...

Hop Ups- The TA03 should already have CVA shocks fitted, and it they should be fine for you to start racing with.. I don't know if your TA03F has adjustable top arms / links, but adding those will allow you to alter the camber on the car which may help with the tuning and handling of the car (you may be able to make some adjustable top links using some ball ends and 3mm threaded rod..)..  I know that the blue steering knuckles were a weak point on the TA02/FF01, and I don't know if the black plastic ones on the TA03 were any better so you may also want to consider upgrading to some alloy knuckles..



Other than that, have fun..

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Will certainly do a full tear down and rebuild, I noticed recently that one of the knuckles was broke so already have a pair of replacements, as and when another goes then I'll certainly be replacing with alloy, it's already fully ball raced and everything seems to be running freely, will examine and lubricate all bearings as I rebuild

Some great advice, thank you! - I'm pretty much decided on sticking with the TA03F for now :) 

I have a spare 10.5t brushless motor that I was planning to install, no idea what pinion is in there at present but was assuming the need for a steel upgrade

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The TT02 (TypeS) is a better chassis than the TA03, corner speed is much better and if you need to get a low FDR for stock motors its is achievable with the TT02, not a TA03. Also parts for the TA03 are expensive, and you will inevitably break things. The TA03 type S is better than a stock TA03 in pretty much every conceivable way. 

The TA07 is the next step, and if you can afford one of those, then I would suggest that.

Importantly let us know what classes they run at your local club, as we can help you make a more smart decision. 

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Do not fit alloy parts on the suspension for a race car. They just add un-sprung weight and can also bend slightly making the actual car handle funky. The TA03F is a fun car to drive, but as mentioned before, watch out for spares.

 

 

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2 hours ago, qatmix said:

The TT02 (TypeS) is a better chassis than the TA03, corner speed is much better and if you need to get a low FDR for stock motors its is achievable with the TT02, not a TA03. Also parts for the TA03 are expensive, and you will inevitably break things. The TA03 type S is better than a stock TA03 in pretty much every conceivable way. 

The TA07 is the next step, and if you can afford one of those, then I would suggest that.

Importantly let us know what classes they run at your local club, as we can help you make a more smart decision. 

qatmix, I cant find any reference to a TA03 Type S chassis.. Do you have a link or photo of one?

Could you be getting confused with the TA03RS and TA03FS, where the S stands for short wheelbase?? or are you referring to the Pro or TRF versions??

Also, how do you go about gearing the TT02 Type S lower that the TA03F?? According to the manual, the lowest FDR with a stock TT02 Type S is 7.28: and 6.55:1 when using the optional speed tuned gear set... The lowest FDR on a stock TA03F is 4.76:1, which is lower than the TA03F Pro FDR of 5.82:1.. (see the manual pages below)

Does the TT02 Type S also suffer from the Torque Steer that seems inherent with most shaft drive cars??

@colda You already have the TA03F so race it and enjoy yourself.. The only thing that you may need to buy is tyres.. There is no real need to spend big $$ for your first few race meetings, just concentrate on driving around the track with other cars, and not crashing..

AND Yes, adding alloy parts to your car is not always the best idea, as strengthening one part can often mean that something else just breaks further up the line if you crash.. But, I've had those blue TA02/FF01 knuckles crack on new built cars just sitting on the shelf.. I hope that the black TA03 knuckles are better, and you don't have to upgrade them.... If not, alloy may be a cheaper option..

tt02s.jpg

TA03F.jpg

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2 hours ago, colda said:

I have a spare 10.5t brushless motor that I was planning to install, no idea what pinion is in there at present but was assuming the need for a steel upgrade

Steel pinion gears are a good idea, but if you already have a few different size alloy pinions, then use them to work out what gear ratio you need to be running, and then buy some Steel pinions in those sizes.. If you're in the UK, have a look at RW racing for 0.6 module pinions.. http://www.rwracing.co.uk/cars.html (I'm assuming that you have a plastic tub TA03F that uses 0.6 module pinions and not a TA03F Pro)

A 10.5 BL motor is going to be rather quick..

Why not just fit a 27 turn 540 "silver can" motor for your first meeting if you have one in good condition..??  A 540 silver can will be a bit slower, but it will make the car easier to handle, and should allow you to concentrate on driving and not crashing... Don't be scared to go up a few teeth on the pinion gear size with the 540 silver can if you need more speed, just keep an eye on the motor temps if your practicing for more than 5-6 mins at a time though.. Just be aware that a 540 silver can geared for racing may cause a Tamiya TBLE02S to go into Thermal shutdown....

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@Backlashthe high speed gear set on the TT02 Type S allows almost any spur gear to be fitted, so you can switch to 48p gears and get just about any FDR with it.  The TT02 will suffer from torque steer with a low turn motor as the motor is mounted longitudinally, but this won't be any issue down to 13.5T super stock anyway. It would for mod, but in mod class you would want TRF chassis. 

Backlash makes a good point about the motors, 10.5 will be crazy fast in a touring car. Even 21.5T is very fast when you're starting out. The silvercan is a good idea if you've got one. In a touring car a 10.5 motor would have to go into mod class,  which also allows esc programming, so you will have the slowest motor in the class as most run faster motors in mod, and have an unsuitable car. 

The TT01 or 2 class could be a good option? Its a cheap class to setup, and usually has spec tyres which keeps cost down as well. I run 2 classes when I attend a race meet as it makes the most of the day or evening, so you could setup a TT02 and then in a few months get a TA07, TB05 or buy somethings secondhand off others?

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53 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

@Backlashthe high speed gear set on the TT02 Type S allows almost any spur gear to be fitted, so you can switch to 48p gears and get just about any FDR with it.  The TT02 will suffer from torque steer with a low turn motor as the motor is mounted longitudinally, but this won't be any issue down to 13.5T super stock anyway. It would for mod, but in mod class you would want TRF chassis.

But the TT02 has a fixed position motor mount, so how does that work when trying to get the different sized / pitch gears to mesh correctly... For that to work, I would have thought that you would need a sliding motor mount like the TA03 or TA07 has, or is there one of those available for the TT02 as well??

My Associated TC3 and TC4 both suffered from torque steer with a 27turn rebuildable stock motor, but yes you are correct that it is worse with a faster motor.....

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3 hours ago, Backlash said:

But the TT02 has a fixed position motor mount, so how does that work when trying to get the different sized / pitch gears to mesh correctly... For that to work, I would have thought that you would need a sliding motor mount like the TA03 or TA07 has, or is there one of those available for the TT02 as well??

My Associated TC3 and TC4 both suffered from torque steer with a 27turn rebuildable stock motor, but yes you are correct that it is worse with a faster motor.....

Oh yeah, the motor mount.  Yep Yeah Racing do an aftermarket one with the sliding mount, I don't know if Tamiya do though.

Shaft drive cars are rare outside of the TT02 class at my club as most people run belt drive.  I know of a few though, theres a TB Evo 7 that runs in Super Stock or Stock and seems to be fine.  I didn't notice any torque steer in my TT02B with a 13.5T and some boost and turbo dialed in, but then I was never racing that, just mucking around in the backyard. 

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8 hours ago, Backlash said:

qatmix, I cant find any reference to a TA03 Type S chassis.. Do you have a link or photo of one?

Could you be getting confused with the TA03RS and TA03FS, where the S stands for short wheelbase?? or are you referring to the Pro or TRF versions??

Also, how do you go about gearing the TT02 Type S lower that the TA03F?? According to the manual, the lowest FDR with a stock TT02 Type S is 7.28: and 6.55:1 when using the optional speed tuned gear set... The lowest FDR on a stock TA03F is 4.76:1, which is lower than the TA03F Pro FDR of 5.82:1.. (see the manual pages below)

Does the TT02 Type S also suffer from the Torque Steer that seems inherent with most shaft drive cars??

@colda You already have the TA03F so race it and enjoy yourself.. The only thing that you may need to buy is tyres.. There is no real need to spend big $$ for your first few race meetings, just concentrate on driving around the track with other cars, and not crashing..

AND Yes, adding alloy parts to your car is not always the best idea, as strengthening one part can often mean that something else just breaks further up the line if you crash.. But, I've had those blue TA02/FF01 knuckles crack on new built cars just sitting on the shelf.. I hope that the black TA03 knuckles are better, and you don't have to upgrade them.... If not, alloy may be a cheaper option..

tt02s.jpg

TA03F.jpg

I was referring to a TT02 type S being better than the TA03. Just a typo. Regarding torque steer I have not suffered any on 13.5 blinky. Running a faster motor will have more of a notificable difference.

Regarding FDR I use 64dp gears in my TT02 type S and have gone as low as 3.51. You just use the yeah racing motor mount and Tamiya high speed gear set to provide you with the freedom of real TC gearing.

As everyone here has said, just race what you have and enjoy yourself.

 

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I think it's time to be sensible and invest in a 21.5t (and maybe a 17.5t) motor, I have a few 13.5t and a couple 10.5t motors but the reality that I need to learn to drive first is  clear, the other 10.5t was destined for a M05 verII R chassis that is waiting to be built :)

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You need to first research what classes your intended venue runs (motor limits, car restrictions) then survey what people are running in each classes.

They may allow you to run TA03 against TT01/2... TA03 is a decent design but TTs would be lighter & more nimble. Modern chassis geometry also "makes more grip" whereas TA03 is very limited on adjustment available (& even when adjusted, we find the factory settings are pretty much spot-on :))

Invest in good tyres, whatever the fast guys are running. 

If you must buy a new chassis look towards 3Racing Sakura family... they're amazingly good value for $$ imho. Great for club hacking err racing. 

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Good advice, I'm learning the hard way very quickly that things can easily get expensive - thankfully the missus has no idea how much the wheels, tyres, transponder and other bits have cost this week

I'll talk to the guys on Saturday and make decision, at the moment I'm thinking of keeping my M05 (although nobody seems to be racing m-chassis locally), selling the TA03 and TA01 to fund something fairly basic that I can use (and afford to maintain), I quite like the idea of the Schumacher Mi1v2, alternatively I suppose there's also the option of GT12 :)

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The biggest issue with the TA03 imo is parts spares these days. A little incident and break a lower arm and thats £20-£30 for that parts tree alone !!

Have a look for a 2nd hand Touring Car if your really worried about sticking with Tamiya. You can get a really good TC chassis from other makes for far less money than a TT02. But again check locally for parts availability.

James.

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Indeed, I'm really not enjoying the cost of Tamiya spares!

Waiting to hear about a used Schumacher Mi5 which would be very nice, although I'm also very tempted by the price of the TA07 Pro at HobbyKing :)

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Yep. As we mentioned Ta03 parts are expensive. TA07 / TT02 parts are nice and cheap and easy to get. 

The Mi5 is also a great chassis, although it would be a little bit inconsistent as it is very responsive to grip levels changing. The EVO version sorted it out a lot as it was stiffer.

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I dont know why anybody has not mentioned the TA05 or even if possible to find a TB03 EVO.

 

when I made a comeback at our local rc club, I was hyped I wanted to race with anything and went of with a TT01 full hopped up wih aluminium arms, shafts etc 52Tspur and 20T pinion. With 17T LRP GT motor.

was the fastest on straights, it was a 1/5 course, so fast corners etc.. but idk wouldnt do it againt. Took me a lot of money for nothing.

 

belt driven cars generally run smoother, TA05 price went down, more competetiv then a tt02.

 

tb03 evo havent driven it but a collegue went two years in a row as a winner in open 1/10 class.

 

also i dont know what TC means.

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