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Andyrt200

Matching brushless ESC, motor & battery (GoolRC info)

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So I recently got a GoolRC brushless setup off eBay. It was so cheap I wasn’t expecting much but I was very happily  surprised to find it does everything I wanted. There is no programming card & you can’t even set the end points. But for the money it’s fine. It’s so smooth at low speeds, I think it’s 4pole so that’s maybe why, I saw that written somewhere, but I can’t see any mention of the pole count looking on the GoolRC web site now :wacko:

It’s a 60A ESC & 4300kv motor. 

I was running 2s but I got a 2200 65c 3s lipo & it really made the cars fly then (50mph being the best from a Thunder Shot)

Of course speed running is addictive, so I’ve ordered a GoolRC 5200kv motor! But its a 4 pole so if the ESC can’t support that I guess non of the rest of this will matter! 

Hoping it will work I’m trying to work out if it will be safe to use the ESC I already have. 

The new 5200kv motor says it has a max current of 94A

The ESC is obviously only a 60A but it has a burst limit of 320A

The 4300kv motor that came with the 60A esc has a max current of 75A. 

So it seems they think its ok to use the burst limit as a buffer. 

My 3s battery has constant discharge rate of 143A & burst of 286A

I assume the motor can only draw its max 94A at any time so its well under the burst of the ESC, but the battery can supply a constant current of well over 94A, so it seems it’s just a case of what constitutes burst really. 

When speed running you tend to only manage to hold full power for a matter of seconds at best, though I suppose that is still probably more than a burst. 

Obviously the only real way to find out is to try it. There is no mention of the ESC having overload protection, so I guess it will just fry! Hopefully not setting fire to the car....

Sorry for going on, I just wanted to put the numbers & my thoughts down so figured it may as well be here so I can get your thoughts. 

Reading it back one unrelated thing occurred to me, my battery is well over the top, if the max current the 4300kc motor can draw is 75A I didn’t need to waist my money on such a high C battery! 

 

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Max current generally refers to what the motor can safely handle for more than just a short burst 

Given a number of variables (weight, gearing, drag ect) the motor will draw more or fewer amps.

It's easier when manufacturers give a recommended maximum motor KV rating, for example the Hobbywing 10BL60 ESC has a 60/360A rating and the recommended max KV is 6000KV for on road and 4000KV for off road.

So it might well be ok on firm ground, but I'd avoid long grass or muddy conditions ;)

ps, hard acceleration is where the greater current draw is.

 

 

 

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On 28/04/2018 at 1:36 AM, IoWBasher said:

Max current generally refers to what the motor can safely handle for more than just a short burst 

Given a number of variables (weight, gearing, drag ect) the motor will draw more or fewer amps.

It's easier when manufacturers give a recommended maximum motor KV rating, for example the Hobbywing 10BL60 ESC has a 60/360A rating and the recommended max KV is 6000KV for on road and 4000KV for off road.

So it might well be ok on firm ground, but I'd avoid long grass or muddy conditions ;)

ps, hard acceleration is where the greater current draw is.

 

 

 

Ah great thanks very much, I see so max motor current isn’t the burst then, so I didn’t waist my money on a high C battery! 

Yes with stock gearing in the cars nothing gets that warm at all on road with the 4300kv but start messing with gearing then deciding to try it on grass is a different matter...

Those ratings for the hobby wing sound promising, I just hope my ESC can support a 4 pole motor now!

The problem with getting stuff of eBay is the sellers often have no idea what it is they are selling so have no clue what you are talking about if you ask them a question :wacko:

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My pleasure ;)

Whilst I'm no RC Snob, Hobbywing are my current favorite Esc;s for performance and price, although their prices have been creeping up recently.

The Max8 is a great Esc for the price, 120A and 4S for £52,98 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobbywing-EZRUN-WP-SC8-120A-Waterproof-Brushless-ESC-1-10-1-8-RC-Car-1-8-1-10-UK/152999578733?epid=1350113373&hash=item239f7c4c6d:g:A0EAAOSwgc1ar8sx

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The Hobbywing 10BL60 can only handle a 4000kv motor off road on a 2s or 6 cell battery. If you are trying to run 3s, you would probably overheat. The 120A one that loWBasher listed above would be a much better choice. The Goolrc systems don't have those recommendations that I can find, so it's tough to know without testing them out yourself.

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On 29/04/2018 at 5:20 PM, Biz73 said:

The Hobbywing 10BL60 can only handle a 4000kv motor off road on a 2s or 6 cell battery. If you are trying to run 3s, you would probably overheat. The 120A one that loWBasher listed above would be a much better choice. The Goolrc systems don't have those recommendations that I can find, so it's tough to know without testing them out yourself.

Ah well, testing it for my self will have to do then. I couldn’t find anything about the GoolRC stuff either.

I ordered a second 4300kv & 60A esc set, it was only £25. I have paid at least that for both motors & ESCs alone more than once so even if I do blow the ESC I’ll have a spare motor to leave in a car, ESCs are much quicker to swap than motors... 

 

 

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I like your logic, as you say it's a cheap way to produce the Magic Smoke for a relatively small outlay.

It will also be good info as to what the esc can handle.

I'm currently browsing GoolRC stuff on Ebay and am tempted.

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I was planning to buy a GoolRC combo as well, but looking at the specs on other esc's and they all limit motor size depending on battery type. I've seen plenty of people use the Gool 60A, but I don't know if that's mostly 2s/6 cell or not. I am running 7 cell nimh's in my ECX Torment, and the specs were saying that I couldn't run off-road with the size motor I want. GoolRC does have higher Amp esc's, just not as cheap as the 60A ones.

I'm just giving you info from what I have been reading, it may not be as black and white as that, most things in this hobby aren't :rolleyes:

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Yes it’s hard to tell, you never know if even if one manufacturer quoted values are the same as another. 

I guess its hard for the manufacturers to quote limits for actual use though as there are so many variables, not least being gearing of different cars. I put this in the top speed thread but have copied it here for reference.

With the GoolRC 4300kv / 60A esc & 3s I listed I had up at the top these were the speeds for my cars I’ve run it in:

Thunder shot @ 50mph

Blackfoot @ 45mph (with a 17t pinion stuffed in)

Hornet @ 43mph

Blackfoot Xtream @ 34mph

G601 @ 32mph

CR01 @ 17mph

Its probably reasonable to assume my old Blackfoot was putting by far the most load on the motor. A normal 540 really struggled to move it with the stock 10t pinion swapped to a 17t but with the GoolRC setup in it flew off & nothing got too hot. But I was running on hard sand....

I will report back how I get on with the new 5200kv motor. 

I had seen the higer amp GoolRC ESC’s too, I may get one if I blow up my 60A on the first go with the 5200kv! They are sold as being for 1/8 cars though & have a slightly higher SBEC (what ever SBEC is vers BEC) output of 6.1V for the radio gear. I assume that’s for bigger servos on bigger cars. Hopefully that would be ok for 1/10 cars. The quoted BEC output for my current 60A esc is 5.8V so there’s not much difference. Just I had it in my head from BITD that BEC voltage was 5.0V :wacko:

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Have you used the  4300kv/60A setup just bashing around on multiple surfaces(dirt,grass, pavement)? I think reading too much without being able to do any testing has me worrying about something that probably won't affect me much.

Just out of curiosity, which motor are you running? Red or orange? Finned can or smooth can?

Thanks for letting me derail your thread;)

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16 hours ago, Biz73 said:

Have you used the  4300kv/60A setup just bashing around on multiple surfaces(dirt,grass, pavement)? I think reading too much without being able to do any testing has me worrying about something that probably won't affect me much.

Just out of curiosity, which motor are you running? Red or orange? Finned can or smooth can?

Thanks for letting me derail your thread;)

Good questions, its the smooth orange motor, I got that one  purely because it was the only 4300kv/60A set on ebay at the time! I haven’t worked out what differences the other have yet. 

 

I haven’t really used for general bashing much yet. It did get a little warm on this run:

But the 6x6 lets you use full power & the brakes hard, as my boy was doing there! But that was just full speed all the time.

 

On this run stopping to do jumps between the odd run on the grass, so maybe more like normal bashing it really wasn’t warm at all:

 

I did try some long speed runs with the GF01 on grass that was really a bit too long & would get a normal 540 warm with the 3s on the GoolRC & it started to get too hot for comfort. The GF01 was a only managing 21mph on that grass where the WT01 & G6 were getting about 33 on the hard sand, the GF01 has the same gearing so the grass was holding it back a lot. 

The GoolRC setup will be living in the G6 long term & we will be mostly be just using 2s with it, that gives about 20mph which is plenty for bashing really. It’s very easy to take the 3s out with us & drop in it we want a bit more speed! 

I did have a different (probably 2 pole) 3300kv in the Thunder Shot & that was getting 29mph with the smallest 13t pinion on 2s, it was just too fast for bashing & got us into bother a few times, the brakes don’t work when the car takes off! 

That gives me an idea though, I should really try the 4300kv in Thunder Shot with a 13t pinion & 2s....

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The smooth can is a real 540, the finned can is a 380 in a 540 sized can from what I have read.

The reason I asked about running on grass is because I don't do speed runs, and I'm guessing it won't be the same as running around the park doing doughnuts and charging through grass etc. Thanks for your input.

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16 hours ago, Biz73 said:

The smooth can is a real 540, the finned can is a 380 in a 540 sized can from what I have read.

Those do exist, but they have a F540, a finned 540 size. 

The then as you said the one I got is a 540 sized smooth, it didn’t occur to me what the 3650 number was before the KV rating, I just looked at the specs & checked it was the same size as a normal 540. It was only when looking again later I realised 3650 is actually the size 36mm x 50mm! They have loads of other sizes larger & smaller, on a total assumption I guess a physically smaller motor won’t have as much torque as a bigger one of the same KV rating.  

I’m just sticking to a 3650 so theres a good chance it will fit in all the cars. Though sometimes the side exit cables can cause a bit of an issue eg CR01 & Sand Scorcher. 

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My second 3650 4300kv / 60A combo & the 3650 5200kv motor both turned up today. 

Here are the specs sheet I lost from my last set:

VU73Nzy.jpg

Intresting all the 36 series motors are 4 pole. So no surprise really my new 5200kv works fine out of a car with the 60A ESC. 

These are for the ESCs 

goy4EJU.jpg

qTboApW.jpg

There is no programming card included, if you look at the programming card it seems it only works with a select few of the ESCs. So this is obviously a very generic instruction sheet! 

(@wolfdogstinkus the bit about  reversing the motor is there)

Looking at the 3650 4300kv the motor sheet seems to call it a 3.5T & the 5200kv a 3T. No idea what they are on about there! Other manufacturers seem to call a 4300kv a 9T, on the ESC sheet the 60A esc lists a 9T motor....

I will report back once I’ve blown some stuff up!

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I know you can reverse the direction by switching the wires on a sensorless motor, the problem occurs if there happens to be a set amount of timing then it will spin faster in one direction than the other, with 0timed motors, they will spin the same speed in both directions. I would imagine they are set at 0 degrees timed but I know with the EZRUN models, you can adjust the timing by a considerable amount on the program card.

I have took a punt anyway, the 6x6 is going to be a handful anyway so if the motors are a few RPM out, it will just keep me on my toes. lol

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Maybe someone else can confirm this, but I read that 540 brushless motors have the half turn #'s(aka 9.5T), and the 380 ones are just solid #'s(aka 9T).

 

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21 hours ago, wolfdogstinkus said:

I know you can reverse the direction by switching the wires on a sensorless motor, the problem occurs if there happens to be a set amount of timing then it will spin faster in one direction than the other, with 0timed motors, they will spin the same speed in both directions. I would imagine they are set at 0 degrees timed but I know with the EZRUN models, you can adjust the timing by a considerable amount on the program card.

I have took a punt anyway, the 6x6 is going to be a handful anyway so if the motors are a few RPM out, it will just keep me on my toes. lol

You will be fine - by nature of their design, all sensorless brushless motors are zero timed. Or more accurately, they have no mechanical timing. The timing is purely a function of the ESC.

Brushed motors are mechanically timed by changing the angle between brushes and magnets, and sensored brushless motors are mechanically timed by changing the angle between the sensor array and stators.

Sensorless brushless motors have neither sensors nor brushes, and thus have no means of being mechanically timed.

 

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Sorry Turnip, reading that back it does say 0timed motors, I do understand that it is an ESC setting, and hope that the factory setting is 0 degrees.

I think the default on EZRUN is 0degrees, I will have to plug in the program card to find out.

ezrun program card has 8 different timing settings 

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15 minutes ago, wolfdogstinkus said:

Sorry Turnip, reading that back it does say 0timed motors, I do understand that it is an ESC setting, and hope that the factory setting is 0 degrees.

I think the default on EZRUN is 0degrees, I will have to plug in the program card to find out.

ezrun program card has 8 different timing settings 

Even if the factory setting is not zero degrees, you'll still be fine. If the ESC timing is advanced, and you need to have one of the motors running in reverse for the front of your 6X6 monster, you simply swap two of the motor cables and the motor runs the other way, but the ESC still applies the timing as if the motor is running as normal. From the ESCs perspective, the motor's normal direction of rotation is irrelevant.

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On 03/05/2018 at 4:44 PM, Biz73 said:

the finned can is a 380 in a 540 sized can from what I have read.

Whoops, I didn’t read your very clearly worded bit there, sorry! 

It see what you mean, glad I got the real 540 one :) 

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47 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

You will be fine - by nature of their design, all sensorless brushless motors are zero timed

Yes that is exactly what I thought, thanks for confirmation :) 

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On ‎2‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 6:42 PM, Andyrt200 said:

Yes it’s hard to tell, you never know if even if one manufacturer quoted values are the same as another. 

I guess its hard for the manufacturers to quote limits for actual use though as there are so many variables, not least being gearing of different cars. I put this in the top speed thread but have copied it here for reference.

You are correct... The big problem is that there just does not appear to be a standard by which all of our RC electronics are tested to...

Even in comparing the Tamiya TEU101BK ESC to the HobbyWing Quicrun 1060.. Both ESC's are supposedly rated at 60 Amps, yet one has a motor limit of a Sports Tuned, and the other has a 12 turn motor limit...

If you happen to exceed the limits of the ESC then you may trip the thermal protection, or at worst case, destroy the ESC... BUT I think that the bigger issue comes when selecting LiPo batteries.. IMHO you just cant really be sure how accurate that the manufacturers "C" ratings really are, and if you do happen to exceed the C rating or maximum output current of the LiPo then it could mean a puffed LiPo or worse, having your car burst into flames mid run...

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8 hours ago, Backlash said:


If you happen to exceed the limits of the ESC then you may trip the thermal protection, or at worst case, destroy the ESC... BUT I think that the bigger issue comes when selecting LiPo batteries.. IMHO you just cant really be sure how accurate that the manufacturers "C" ratings really are, and if you do happen to exceed the C rating or maximum output current of the LiPo then it could mean a puffed LiPo or worse, having your car burst into flames mid run...

Very good point, it's why I regularly check the temperatures of the motor, esc and battery to avoid such occurrences.

 

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Yes thanks @Backlash glad I got such a high C battery now! Hopefully at least a pack that is meant to have a high C will at lease have a bit more than a cheaper lower C one...

The first test of the 5200kv motor with the 60A ESC when very well. We took out the G6 with a 20t pinion & the 4300kv motor & the WT01 with an 18t pinion & the 5200kv, both running 2s, for a good bash today. The G6 got the hottest motor, but that is most likely because my son was driving that one! 

I dropped a 3s in with the 5200kv for a few quick speed runs at the end of our session & there was no drama at all, it didn’t get as hot as bashing on 2s! It was running the smaller 18t pinion though, I will try with a 20t soon. 

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