Jump to content
Leckster

Oh Dear.... (Bruiser clone)

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, RC4x4 said:

I did order one of the kit versions from Toucan. I didn't really need the electronics it comes with and wanted to put it together myself. However though I may order a rtr from Asia tees.

 

Cory

I personally already have both the re-re Mountaineer and Bruiser.

The only reason I wanted the RTR is for the radio that already supports the channels/switches  for switching the 3-speed transmission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, khyzersoze said:

I personally already have both the re-re Mountaineer and Bruiser.

The only reason I wanted the RTR is for the radio that already supports the channels/switches  for switching the 3-speed transmission.

 I used a JR R756 pistol radio since 1995 with my trucks. I'm retiring it.

I just bought a new Spektrum DX5C and it works awesome. I use the 4th switch on top to shift with. I'm switching all my older runners over to it now. I'm bringing them into the future.

Also upgrading the esc's. I'm using the new Onyx 60amp in my new 2012 and it works great. Need lipo detection in them all instead of those silly alarms.

 

Cory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RC4x4 said:

I did order one of the kit versions from Toucan. I didn't really need the electronics it comes with and wanted to put it together myself. However though I may order a rtr from Asia tees.

 

Cory

With the kit, what electronics and battery you planning to use it with?

I am still new in the hobby but I am thinking some upgrade options in the future

Note: I don't intend to rock crawl or enter any competitions. Will only run p407 as a bash/trail car, so the stock parts are pretty enough.

Possible Budget electronics upgrade Options. Will this work?

Servo: Any recommedations? (steering is weak)

Battery: any brand 5000 3s lipo

ESC: Hobbywing QuicRun waterproof crawl ESC

Motor: Holmes Hobbies trailmaster 550 27T

Radio: Radiolink RC6GS

Thanks!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RC4x4 said:

 I used a JR R756 pistol radio since 1995 with my trucks. I'm retiring it.

I just bought a new Spektrum DX5C and it works awesome. I use the 4th switch on top to shift with. I'm switching all my older runners over to it now. I'm bringing them into the future.

Also upgrading the esc's. I'm using the new Onyx 60amp in my new 2012 and it works great. Need lipo detection in them all instead of those silly alarms.

 

Cory

Yeah technically, I could just use my hacked FlySky GT3C, but I want to keep it segregated from my normal running trucks.  I plan to just stick a Hobbywing 1060 in there for Esc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/1/2018 at 9:18 PM, StevePlaysRC said:

With the kit, what electronics and battery you planning to use it with?

I am still new in the hobby but I am thinking some upgrade options in the future

Note: I don't intend to rock crawl or enter any competitions. Will only run p407 as a bash/trail car, so the stock parts are pretty enough.

Possible Budget electronics upgrade Options. Will this work?

Servo: Any recommedations? (steering is weak)

Battery: any brand 5000 3s lipo

ESC: Hobbywing QuicRun waterproof crawl ESC

Motor: Holmes Hobbies trailmaster 550 27T

Radio: Radiolink RC6GS

Thanks!

 

I just use the stock motor. I don't beat on my trucks and just do mild trail stuff and take care of them. They will last a life time if you don't abuse them.

I only use a 2 cell lipo now in all my trucks. I use a 2s 4000mah to 5000mah pack. I found a new esc through Tower Hobbies, the Onyx 60 amp which works very well

and puts 6 volts to the servos. Also it has a on/off switch. I'll post some pic's. The esc is only like 36 dollars. It has lipo detection also. I think the Hobby wing ecs is the same in a way.

I would just try the stock motor or maybe later upgrade to the Holmes. The radio you have listed seems good. Just setup one of the switches to 3 position and your in business.

 

Cory

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RC4x4 said:

I just use the stock motor. I don't beat on my trucks and just do mild trail stuff and take care of them. They will last a life time if you don't abuse them.

I only use a 2 cell lipo now in all my trucks. I use a 2s 4000mah to 5000mah pack. I found a new esc through Tower Hobbies, the Onyx 60 amp which works very well

and puts 6 volts to the servos. Also it has a on/off switch. I'll post some pic's. The esc is only like 36 dollars. It has lipo detection also. I think the Hobby wing ecs is the same in a way.

I would just try the stock motor or maybe later upgrade to the Holmes. The radio you have listed seems good. Just setup one of the switches to 3 position and your in business.

 

Cory

 

for a few bucks more (around $40) you can get a Hobbywing 1080  if you're sticking with brushed motors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, khyzersoze said:

for a few bucks more (around $40) you can get a Hobbywing 1080  if you're sticking with brushed motors.

I didn't see this one before I bought that Onyx. I may just order one of these and try it. I'm not really digging the switch though but it may be okay.

I have my switch now where it goes where the resistor wire would go through.

 

Cory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, RC4x4 said:

I didn't see this one before I bought that Onyx. I may just order one of these and try it. I'm not really digging the switch though but it may be okay.

I have my switch now where it goes where the resistor wire would go through.

 

Cory

It's a great bang for the buck ESC especially for crawlers.  XT60 connector, Programming card, a decent built-in BEC...

Many on RCCrawler forums use this as the standard Brushed ESC setup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The kit version here with photos showing how it's all arranged.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173435630024?ul_noapp=true 

Have to say it is extremely tempting, I have 2 Bruisers rere and a Mountain rider. 1 of each as a shelfer and the third was meant to be a runner. Seeing this though is tempting to have as a Bruiser for doing things that you wouldn't normally do to a Bruiser. The RTR is arguably better vfm, Asiatees price is pretty cheap too.

I'll be resisting a little longer! Looks like the axles, gearbox are different. Looking at pics of spares it looks like the gbox internals are different and none of the gears and suspension components are of the calibre of the Bruiser. When building the Bruiser kit the quality of each individual component astounds and is one of the most satisfying parts of the process. Building one without that same revelation and marvel at the quality of componentry would detract from the Bruiser experience no doubt. It is the pinnacle of Tamiya builds for me. 

On the flip side, reading the thread on the other channel and here, it is great that this is accessible to so many and has given those who have dreamed of a Bruiser of which I was one for a long time, the possibility to have a real taste of what they are like and there is a lot of excitement around it, people playing with them, modifying them, experimenting with them and enjoying them for what they are. For all of the morals, Tamiya is a big boy corporation and it is within their means to respond to this if they wanted.

The IP thing and the Chinese Business model and ethics is lamentable, but exploitation goes both ways as has been said above and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction ;) . He who sows the wind shall reap the whirlwind!

I hope Tamiya respond with an up to date cutting edge model, that is as ingenious and revolutionary to the hobby now as the Bruiser was at its inception.The Bruiser was always Tamiya's halo model, every kid dreamed of it but it was totally out of reach for most.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/2/2018 at 4:18 AM, StevePlaysRC said:

With the kit, what electronics and battery you planning to use it with?

I am still new in the hobby but I am thinking some upgrade options in the future

Note: I don't intend to rock crawl or enter any competitions. Will only run p407 as a bash/trail car, so the stock parts are pretty enough.

Possible Budget electronics upgrade Options. Will this work?

Servo: Any recommedations? (steering is weak)

Battery: any brand 5000 3s lipo

ESC: Hobbywing QuicRun waterproof crawl ESC

Motor: Holmes Hobbies trailmaster 550 27T

Radio: Radiolink RC6GS

Thanks!

 

The Tamiya rere Bruiser manual can be downloaded here...https://www.tamiya.com/english/rc/rcmanual/58519.pdf

 

Step 24 has a note to not use any motor other than the kit supplied item - in this case a silver can 27T item.   Whilst it might be tempting to look at a more crawler specific 35T or lower motor, the increased torque might lead to stripped transmission gears if you get the truck caught up in tree roots for example.

For ESC the Hobbywing 1080 is a good choice.  There are more specific crawler biased ESCs with more braking / hill hold type control but again they might put increase strain on the transmission

 

You do NOT want a 3S battery anywhere near this truck, original or clone.   If anything a LiFe 6.6V pack might be a better option for more realistic scale speeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did anybody buy one with the LED and sound system? Is it the same quality as the MFC-02? I have the RTR white body running right now and a black body kit in the mail. I think it is great that this came out or I would not have one!!!! I can say that mine did not have oil in the shocks, only had grease the rest were dry. I used the clear tamiya o rings and some 25wt silicone oil with pipe tape on the cap threads. Also my transmission was bone dry and the diffs had red grease. I could only tell by removing the axles since the diff screws and drive shaft grub screws are red loctite secured :(

HG-P407.jpg

Edited by unixphreak
grammar and spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Percymon said:

The Tamiya rere Bruiser manual can be downloaded here...https://www.tamiya.com/english/rc/rcmanual/58519.pdf

Step 24 has a note to not use any motor other than the kit supplied item 

For ESC the Hobbywing 1080 is a good choice.  There are more specific crawler biased ESCs with more braking / hill hold type control but again they might put increase strain on the transmission

You do NOT want a 3S battery anywhere near this truck, original or clone.  

Thanks @Percymon! I just happened to read about LiPo batteries today as well and I agree that 2 cells lipo is probably the best. I have also decided not to upgrade the motor and electronics for now, until one day I really know what I am doing regarding the electronics.

Just to share:

https://www.msuk-forum.co.uk/forums/topic/21028-lipo-the-big-guide-thread-updated-march-10/

Also, @unixphreak are all P407 ungreased and unoiled?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might be wrong but I believe the manual states 27t max because faster 540 size motors would run too hot. Don't forget the original had a huge 750 motor with way more torque than any 540.

There's plenty of brushless bruisers on youtube that seem to do fine.

I'm not sure a 35T motor would have much if any extra torque, I've seen a lot of compelling arguments for the "higher turns = more torque" thing being a myth. Torque is proportional to current and higher turn count motors have longer and thinner wire which is more resistance and allows less current past, unless you force it through with higher voltage at least. It's the extra controllability afforded by the narrower RPM range stretched over the same throttle travel that gives the illusion of torque I believe. I put a 200 turn 540 motor into one of my cars once and it could barely move it's own weight, in theory it should have been a stump puller.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2018 at 4:32 PM, topforcein said:

i'm gonna throw a spanner in the works here i was just on modelsport  and saw this in the home page.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/ftx-kanyon-4x4-rtr-1-10-xl-trail-crawler/rc-car-products/433022

I like your spanner!  If the plastic universals are strong, it looks like a good crawler.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:11 PM, StevePlaysRC said:

Thanks @Percymon! I just happened to read about LiPo batteries today as well and I agree that 2 cells lipo is probably the best. I have also decided not to upgrade the motor and electronics for now, until one day I really know what I am doing regarding the electronics.

Just to share:

https://www.msuk-forum.co.uk/forums/topic/21028-lipo-the-big-guide-thread-updated-march-10/

Also, @unixphreak are all P407 ungreased and unoiled?

I only have one HG-P407 right now, I should have the kit version in a few weeks and I will let you know. But from what I have read in other forums the diffs and axles have a bit of red grease in them but the trannies are unlubed and the shocks have a mix of oil or grease or nothing at all. Chinese Quality controls  are exceptional.

Edited by unixphreak
grammar and spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2018 at 9:32 PM, topforcein said:

i'm gonna throw a spanner in the works here i was just on modelsport  and saw this in the home page.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/ftx-kanyon-4x4-rtr-1-10-xl-trail-crawler/rc-car-products/433022

Looks half decent, same chasiss as their mighty thunder MT which seems to be quite well liked.

I made the mistake of reading about it on MSUK though, urghh. I forget how many elitist manchildren there are on there "arghhh my eyes! I hate this because it's...so stupid..I wouldn't pay  £1 for this lmao zomg it's so awful because....look at it Whats that all about then? Wth is this wow it's so bad" and then came the straw man "wait till the FTX guys say it's as good as a TRX-4"

And that's why I only visit the for sale section on MSUK to part people with their awful budget RC stuff so they can stop vomiting.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/8/2018 at 4:11 AM, StevePlaysRC said:

Thanks @Percymon! I just happened to read about LiPo batteries today as well and I agree that 2 cells lipo is probably the best. I have also decided not to upgrade the motor and electronics for now, until one day I really know what I am doing regarding the electronics.

Just to share:

https://www.msuk-forum.co.uk/forums/topic/21028-lipo-the-big-guide-thread-updated-march-10/

Also, @unixphreak are all P407 ungreased and unoiled?

Good article apart from the opening statement

"First of all, LiPo cells are no more dangerous than any other kind of cell (NiCD, NiMH etc)"

That's really not an honest thing say, especially putting it in bold.

NIMH can indeed fail and if the vent on the cell doesn't work properly the cap can shoot off like a bullet but even with that in mind, the failure mode of a NIMH is much less dangerous than a lipo.

NIMH won't shoot out flames 5 feet and doesn't have a short current that can exceed 500 amps. Lipo cells are generally much more dangerous if they fail and they can become unstable both from over discharging and over charging. 

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of unnecessary scaremongering surrounding lipos and if you stick to the correct procedures you're unlikely to run into issues. I can understand why he's trying to redress the balance but I strongly believe that lipo batteries are inherently more dangerous in a failure. It's a bit like saying a poodle is just as likey to snap as a pitbull, I know which one I'd prefer to fight off! 

I hope I don't come across as negative but I just wanted to point that part out. I can't think of many people who lost their house or garage to a NIMH or even their RC car for that matter. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't agree more. If recommending a lipo to people, they should go into it with their eyes wide open of the potential dangers highlighting the reasons why they need to respect them. That said, most of the spectacular youtube Lipo failures are as a result of total deliberate sabotage, but it's sobering nonetheless.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick update.  Been running my Clone pretty often the last couple of weeks. With the exception of a couple of screws coming loose the truck has been great.  Ordered the Kit version over the weekend and got the notice that it arrived in the states this morning.  Looking forward to the build.  

I'll document for those that are interested. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Racer1

Please let us know if the differential case bolts are red Loctite bound or not, I see my self drilling out the current ones to service the diffs and replacing the bolts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nitomor said:

I couldn't agree more. If recommending a lipo to people, they should go into it with their eyes wide open of the potential dangers highlighting the reasons why they need to respect them. That said, most of the spectacular youtube Lipo failures are as a result of total deliberate sabotage, but it's sobering nonetheless.

 

 

Yup I totally agree, there's people on each extreme of the scale when it comes to lipos.

Common sense is all you need.

I keep an eye on them when they charge, don't over discharge (voltage alarm even in cars with an lvc)

I stop running as soon as the power is noticeably decreasing instead of running them down to 3.0v per cell, this normally happens before the alarm goes off.

I like them to be at least 3.5-3.6v at rest after use.

I try to avoid leaving them in any state except storage charge for long periods.

I don't store then in an ammo box or bunker made out of breeze blocks, I keep them in an old slow cooker/crockpot usually.

I haven't had a single incident so far and I don't recall having a battery puff up either. There's lithium cells in phones and laptops and people don't store those outside in a bunker. 

Most of the horror stories I've read about involved incorrect or unattended charging and like you say, all the youtube videos involve massive over charging, deliberate physical damage or using packs that are known to be faulty.

It's a bit like nuclear power in concept, massive potential for danger but totally safe with the right precautions. Read up about windscale, 3 mile island, chernobyl etc etc. The common factor is always human error/complacency.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, unixphreak said:

@Racer1

Please let us know if the differential case bolts are red Loctite bound or not, I see my self drilling out the current ones to service the diffs and replacing the bolts. 

I've torn the truck down to bare parts and reassembled it and everything came apart without any issues. I don't think loctite was used anywhere on the truck during the original assembly.  Mine on the other hand has a fair amount of the blue stuff holding it together and some things still work themselves loose. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...