Oh Dear.... (Bruiser clone)

[nowinaminute 2815]

2 hours ago, waterbok said:

Rere bruiser has black chassis rails, get your facts straight. The clones gearbox should be a give away (no plugs (2) for inspection), on this add looks like it's the real thing. Pictures could be better.

Oh I do apologise, I thought it was being presenting as an original. No need to be rude.

[magnumb 97]

2 hours ago, voo2doo said:

F-150 , the clone's parts are not up to Tamiya's OEM parts. The rear diff is giving a few owners nightmares as its wearing too fast and the second gear in the box is made of B grade marzipan and disintegrates on command. The shocks leak like a guddun but the body is superb.

J

I made sure to grease mine a shim the diff and mine is working fine after 12-15 packs. 

[voo2doo 9]

Excellent , thanks for the input.

J

[moffman 5752]

Don't shoot me down guys😬 but it's been eating away at me since summer last year when these "clone" Toyota bruisers came to my attention I've been really interested to see what it really is?, I've looked at countless videos and pictures so I bit the bullet and use a discount code that actually worked and got it for a **** good price! (And no custom charges which considering the size of the box is bewildering because I got hammered with VAT + charges when I received a decal sheet from the USA a few weeks ago🤔) I'm not going to make it look like a bruiser (coz its not) but I'm going to take it apart gearbox and all to see if it has got the quality of original icon but on first glance (sorry tamiya) it's an awesome looking truck which is going to be a bit of a Guinea pig (and I'm definitely not going to try and sell it on as a genuine bruiser that I bought in 2012 and built it put it in the attic forgot about it then slap it on Ebay) the grey one is my 100% genuine icon bruiser which I sold so regrettably a few years ago😩😩😩

[GTodd 1348]

Dude nothing to be sorry about. Given there's been no legal action by Tamiya I'm betting these clones are from a contract a company had to make the parts for Tamiya. Once the contract was done the company was free to do as they were pleased. If Tamiya wants to fight back theyd sell the newly re-introduced mountain rider for about 350 USA. And no me as a Bruiser rere purchaser I would not be mad at the 50 percent reduction in price. I'd be happy that the company I love was making some smart business decicons finally!

[OCD 514]

1 hour ago, GTodd said:

 Given there's been no legal action by Tamiya I'm betting these clones are from a contract a company had to make the parts for Tamiya. Once the contract was done the company was free to do as they were pleased. If Tamiya wants to fight back theyd sell the newly re-introduced mountain rider for about 350 USA. And no me as a Bruiser rere purchaser I would not be mad at the 50 percent reduction in price. I'd be happy that the company I love was making some smart business decicons finally!

I'd love to know how this idea keeps being echoed around. None of the molds or castings are the same, so how would the company that has possession of them opt to make all new tooling for a clone?

They aren't the same trucks, and there's a very good reason why one of them is a quarter the price of the other. I agree there's nothing to be sorry about if you decide to purchase a clone, but to say that Tamiya is somehow ripping us off is patently untrue. I really wish folks would quit repeating these kind of unfounded rumors, as it does more to denigrate the Tamiya name than any amount of clones ever would.

[GTodd 1348]

1 hour ago, OCD said:

I'd love to know how this idea keeps being echoed around. None of the molds or castings are the same, so how would the company that has possession of them opt to make all new tooling for a clone?

They aren't the same trucks, and there's a very good reason why one of them is a quarter the price of the other. I agree there's nothing to be sorry about if you decide to purchase a clone, but to say that Tamiya is somehow ripping us off is patently untrue. I really wish folks would quit repeating these kind of unfounded rumors, as it does more to denigrate the Tamiya name than any amount of clones ever would.

I have a clone and a rere, other than the transmission case EVERYTHING else looks IDENTICAL.

[OCD 514]

1 hour ago, GTodd said:

I have a clone and a rere, other than the transmission case EVERYTHING else looks IDENTICAL.

But they aren't the same. Please watch the video from AMPro to see what I'm talking about. I have the Bruiser re-release that the clone is based on. Absolutely none of the "clone" parts came from the original Tamiya molds.

[mtbkym01 4008]

35 minutes ago, GTodd said:

I have a clone and a rere, other than the transmission case EVERYTHING else looks IDENTICAL.

I guess thats why its a clone, i.e. made to look the same.

 

Would be interesting if the parts actually fit each other. A bit like the 1/5 HPI Baja and the numerous clones from King Motor etc. Most of the quality HPI parts are used to upgrade the clones. Certainly doesnt make them the same buggy

[moffman 5752]

5 hours ago, mtbkym01 said:

I guess thats why its a clone, i.e. made to look the same.

 

Would be interesting if the parts actually fit each other. A bit like the 1/5 HPI Baja and the numerous clones from King Motor etc. Most of the quality HPI parts are used to upgrade the clones. Certainly doesnt make them the same buggy

Like I said earlier I watched loads of videos on this particular rc (countless amount TBH) and one of those was a guy fitting the clone parts on the genuine and vice/versa and in some cases (and again don't shoot me down I'm only saying what I seen😬) the clone parts fitting better on the genuine! But to be honest I've bought this purely for fun like all hobbies should be "a fun pastime" so I don't care really if it turns out to be a total dud I just love wrenching with the spanners if problem turn up I'll fix em😁 so if you want a genuine bruiser/mountaineer and you can afford the iconic model your going to get one fantastic piece of rc engineering tamiya at it's best but if you can't then looking at this "clone" it's a very good substitute but either way keep in perspective it's a brilliant fun hobby and we should keep it that way👍.......I'm having a ball taking it apart!

[mtbkym01 4008]

2 hours ago, moffman said:

Like I said earlier I watched loads of videos on this particular rc (countless amount TBH) and one of those was a guy fitting the clone parts on the genuine and vice/versa and in some cases (and again don't shoot me down I'm only saying what I seen😬) the clone parts fitting better on the genuine! But to be honest I've bought this purely for fun like all hobbies should be "a fun pastime" so I don't care really if it turns out to be a total dud I just love wrenching with the spanners if problem turn up I'll fix em😁 so if you want a genuine bruiser/mountaineer and you can afford the iconic model your going to get one fantastic piece of rc engineering tamiya at it's best but if you can't then looking at this "clone" it's a very good substitute but either way keep in perspective it's a brilliant fun hobby and we should keep it that way👍.......I'm having a ball taking it apart!

I’ve got a Bruiser NIB bought from a hobby shop over the counter in Japan, it will be one of the most rewarding and cherished builds I ever complete

[87lc2 2663]

I ended up buying the kit version of the clone.  While I don't have a Bruiser I highly doubt that the clone parts are from original Tamiya tooling.  If they are, they definitely used different materials that are not nearly as good as the original Tamiya.  I ended up replacing the clones crappy leaf springs and mounts with re-re Bruiser parts and the Tamiya stuff is much higher quality, it's not even close.  Simply based on my experience with countless other Tamiya kits over the years, there is no way the clone is using original Tamiya tooling and definitely not original materials.  If the tooling is the same then I'd be pretty disappointed if I bought a re-re Bruiser kit and it built like the clone, just didn't feel like Tamiya quality to me.  If anyone thinks they are the same I'd suggest they build a kit version of the clone and then compare.  Unless I'm way off and the Bruisers have quality issues as well, I can almost guarantee they are not the same.

I obviously don't have any proof, just my opinion.  With that said, other than the parts I had issues with, the clone was an interesting build and glad I bought it.  Runs and shifts well, only modification I made was moving the steering servo up front, with the front axle locked it didn't steer well at all in the stock location.  If anything it made me want to buy the new re-re Mountaineer that's coming soon, I really do appreciate what Tamiya did with this truck considering when it was introduced. Still need to finish the body on mine, it's about half painted at this point.

[Grastens 2795]

4 hours ago, 87lc2 said:

I ended up buying the kit version of the clone.  While I don't have a Bruiser I highly doubt that the clone parts are from original Tamiya tooling.  If they are, they definitely used different materials that are not nearly as good as the original Tamiya... 

Simply based on my experience with countless other Tamiya kits over the years, there is no way the clone is using original Tamiya tooling and definitely not original materials.  If the tooling is the same then I'd be pretty disappointed if I bought a re-re Bruiser kit and it built like the clone, just didn't feel like Tamiya quality to me...

With that said, other than the parts I had issues with, the clone was an interesting build and glad I bought it.  Runs and shifts well, only modification I made was moving the steering servo up front, with the front axle locked it didn't steer well at all in the stock location... I really do appreciate what Tamiya did with this truck considering when it was introduced.

It is for these reasons that when a Bruiser became available to me, I bought it. The HG-P407 would have been way more budget-friendly, and I could have finished one right down to the scale details for the price of an unassembled Bruiser. Nonetheless, I was concerned about the quality of materials in the clone. I had dreamed about owning a Tamiya 3-speed truck; it would have been quite disappointing if I had bought the clone, only to find the materials were subpar, and then have that taint my experience with these marvellous kits.

... I would also be about $300 or so in the hole for a subsequent Bruiser

However, I see that while the HG-P407 is not quite up to Tamiya standards, it is still a respectable kit at an astonishingly-good price, and it has the credit of introducing the wonderful world of multi-speed trucks to an appreciably-broader audience. I imagine it is doing this with more flair than the High-Lift line of trucks, though that is just my opinion!

4 hours ago, mtbkym01 said:

I’ve got a Bruiser NIB bought from a hobby shop over the counter in Japan, it will be one of the most rewarding and cherished builds I ever complete

Mine came over the counter from a less-exotic place, but the feeling is the same

Whether a Bruiser, Mountain Rider, or HG-P407, it would be nice if every kit builder in the hobby got the chance to assemble at least one of them in a lifetime.

[Nobbi1977 1793]

I have stripped mine and it is a POS

 

Have a look here for me stripping mine

 

[moffman 5752]

9 hours ago, 87lc2 said:

I ended up buying the kit version of the clone.  While I don't have a Bruiser I highly doubt that the clone parts are from original Tamiya tooling.  If they are, they definitely used different materials that are not nearly as good as the original Tamiya.  I ended up replacing the clones crappy leaf springs and mounts with re-re Bruiser parts and the Tamiya stuff is much higher quality, it's not even close.  Simply based on my experience with countless other Tamiya kits over the years, there is no way the clone is using original Tamiya tooling and definitely not original materials.  If the tooling is the same then I'd be pretty disappointed if I bought a re-re Bruiser kit and it built like the clone, just didn't feel like Tamiya quality to me.  If anyone thinks they are the same I'd suggest they build a kit version of the clone and then compare.  Unless I'm way off and the Bruisers have quality issues as well, I can almost guarantee they are not the same.

I obviously don't have any proof, just my opinion.  With that said, other than the parts I had issues with, the clone was an interesting build and glad I bought it.  Runs and shifts well, only modification I made was moving the steering servo up front, with the front axle locked it didn't steer well at all in the stock location.  If anything it made me want to buy the new re-re Mountaineer that's coming soon, I really do appreciate what Tamiya did with this truck considering when it was introduced. Still need to finish the body on mine, it's about half painted at this point.

Yeah I did notice how half hearted the leaf springs look but on the flip side I always felt that the bruisers springs were a bit on the bouncy side so I'm going to leave them on for now because they do seem more soft which is what I'm going to try!

[87lc2 2663]

It's funny how this all worked out for me at least - I never really had interest in the original Bruiser because of it's limited capabilities and high price.  Don't get me wrong, I always admired them but never thought seriously about purchasing.  Once the clone came out I figured as a kit (I just love building kits) for under $200 I'd buy it and run it without any consequence of value like a real Bruiser.  After building the clone I feel it is probably too fragile to be a runner so it will most likely just get shelved anyway.  On the other hand, building it was such a nice experience that I can imagine the genuine Tamiya experience being even better and now I want an actual Bruiser/Mountain Rider more than I ever have before.  By buying the clone I've actually convinced myself I need the genuine Mountain Rider re-re when it comes out.  So in my little world the clone actually helped Tamiya sell another truck.  Now the question is, will I be able to run the Mountain Rider without feeling guilty.

[geniusanthony 361]

29 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

It's funny how this all worked out for me at least - I never really had interest in the original Bruiser because of it's limited capabilities and high price.  Don't get me wrong, I always admired them but never thought seriously about purchasing.  Once the clone came out I figured as a kit (I just love building kits) for under $200 I'd buy it and run it without any consequence of value like a real Bruiser.  After building the clone I feel it is probably too fragile to be a runner so it will most likely just get shelved anyway.  On the other hand, building it was such a nice experience that I can imagine the genuine Tamiya experience being even better and now I want an actual Bruiser/Mountain Rider more than I ever have before.  By buying the clone I've actually convinced myself I need the genuine Mountain Rider re-re when it comes out.  So in my little world the clone actually helped Tamiya sell another truck.  Now the question is, will I be able to run the Mountain Rider without feeling guilty.

I agree with this, I too bought a clone the RTR when they first came out, I ran it without remorse and broke some gears in the trans. Found some other problems along the way, modeled some new parts and had fun. Along the way bought a Mountaineer window set, removed the camper shell, brazed a new roll bar and overall I found the whole experience very interesting.. In the end I have a two spare bodies from the clones (I bought a kit version on sale for the novelty) and can keep my authentic body set pristine. 

I am glad the Mountain Rider is coming back out, will happily buy thanks to the Meh' HG truck.

 

[moffman 5752]

On 2/27/2019 at 12:24 AM, GTodd said:

Dude nothing to be sorry about. Given there's been no legal action by Tamiya I'm betting these clones are from a contract a company had to make the parts for Tamiya. Once the contract was done the company was free to do as they were pleased. If Tamiya wants to fight back theyd sell the newly re-introduced mountain rider for about 350 USA. And no me as a Bruiser rere purchaser I would not be mad at the 50 percent reduction in price. I'd be happy that the company I love was making some smart business decicons finally!

What I can't understand is if it's not using the same molding etc the clone makers will have had to use their own manufactured castings why then produce a exact copy of something which already exists🤔 rock crawling is one sector in the rc world which is getting more popular and I'm thinking surely design and manufacture your own original even if it's got a whiff of bruiser/mountaineer but to do an exact copy is strange!...............mind you I think I've just answered my own question "design"🙄 something they haven't had to do!

[mtbkym01 4008]

4 minutes ago, moffman said:

What I can't understand is if it's not using the same molding etc the clone makers will have had to use their own manufactured castings why then produce a exact copy of something which already exists🤔 rock crawling is one sector in the rc world which is getting more popular and I'm thinking surely design and manufacture your own original even if it's got a whiff of bruiser/mountaineer but to do an exact copy is strange!...............mind you I think I've just answered my own question "design"🙄 something they haven't had to do!

Exactly, easier to just copy than invent

[RichiPuppy 42]

3 hours ago, moffman said:

What I can't understand is if it's not using the same molding etc the clone makers will have had to use their own manufactured castings why then produce a exact copy of something which already exists🤔 rock crawling is one sector in the rc world which is getting more popular and I'm thinking surely design and manufacture your own original even if it's got a whiff of bruiser/mountaineer but to do an exact copy is strange!...............mind you I think I've just answered my own question "design"🙄 something they haven't had to do!

It’s a lot easier and less r&d when you use someone else’s design to make your mold.  These remind me of the fake lego sets.

[magnumb 97]

They are using the same tooling you can tell by the cast marks. 

[OCD 514]

25 minutes ago, magnumb said:

They are using the same tooling you can tell by the cast marks. 

Which are all different than the Tamiya parts.

Look at the ejection pin sites and you'll notice that they're all in different spots. Not to even mention the most tolerances appear to be way off. And rough flash everywhere. And the body is different at the roofline, etc.

I just can't understand how this would be from the same molds. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[magnumb 97]

Body is deff not of the same molds and the alloy is of different makeup. 

[87lc2 2663]

Yea, the tooling is definitely not the same.  At least for the plastic parts, ejector pins are not in the same spot.  Not sure on the castings as I only have clone parts, but if Tamiya built them that poorly everyone that ever bought an original Bruiser would not be happy.

[nowinaminute 2815]

It's definitely different tooling. Just copied to a relatively high degree of accuracy.

The quality definitely isn't the same. It's maybe 90% of the way there but that final 10% makes a big difference, the finish is rough around the edges in comparison and they are often poorly assembled with no threadlock etc.

Out of the box the clone definitely needs some work doing to it, it's sloppy, poorly assembled and has awful bearings and servo savers etc. You can get it to a much better standard and still save a fortune vs a genuine one but it definitely needs work. Anyone who says it's close to a bruiser out of the box is delusional. You might get 1 or 2 runs out of it in stock form before things start going wrong.

If you like to tinker then it can make a good project, especially if you cannot justify the price of the genuine version but if you want Tamiya quality right off the bat then there's still only one choice.

I got one and it's a good runner now but it took some work. A lot of stuff you can upgrade cheaply. The bearings for example, the stock ones are awful, you can easily upgrade by buying different bearings that are still cheap and Chinese but not as awful. The ones in this truck are honestly the worst I have ever come across.

The 2nd speed pinion gear disintegrated on mine, seems like a common problem, badly sintered metal. I replaced it with the equivalent tamiya part and it has been ok since then.

The servo saver "springs" aren't springs at all and just metal so when they bend out of shape they stay out of shape and you get loose steering and gear shifting. Easily fixed with better servo savers, even basic tamiya plastic ones are an improvement. The servos themselves aren't awful but you can upgrade the steering one to something like a Towerpro MG996R for a few £. I also did the servo front relocation mod to get rid of that entire stock mechanism which causes a lot of slop even with the genuine version.

I changed the stock, rock hard tyres to cheap Austar crawler tyres which made a huge difference and I took 2 springs out of each corner to improve the articulation.

All those things combined with using threadlock to put it back together has made it much better to drive and more reliable for trailing etc.