Leckster

Oh Dear.... (Bruiser clone)

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37 minutes ago, OCD said:

Tamiya is certainly damaged by the existence of clones like the aforementioned. This isn't a case where you have a huge company that can ignore the losses. Tamiya is in a struggling (or dying in some cases, see Kyosho) industry, and they have invested a lot in making sure the Tamiya name and image remains to be #1.

Also remember that in the grand scheme of things, not too many of these trucks get sold to begin with. RC as a hobby is a thing of massive privelage, and very few people on this planet have the disposable income to even afford the knockoff version if it were 1/10 the price.

Think of it this way: For every one of these trucks that get sold, that's one less sale for Tamiya, one less commission for the importer, and possibly one less sale for the LHS. Then there's the erosion of perceived value, which is two-fold 1. A near identically-appearing model that is being offered to the public at less than wholesale pricing 2. The evisceration of Tamiya sales in that market. It's really a double whammy for Tamiya, and who knows how much of this they can endure in times like these.

We have the Japanese economic bubble era to thank for all that is this wonderful hobby, but those days have long gone. It's become an era of conservation now, and anything extracurricular like toys-hobbies-games are on the endangered list.

We can all do our part to help. It's easy for me to say no to the clones B)

i have seen my lhs witch i have been using for the past 20 years at least go from mainly tamiya on sale to some traxxas creeping in then over the past few years tamiya aint on sale n the huge numbers that used to be and the last time i visited witch was a few weeks back is know mainly full of cheap rc's and a handfull of tamiya(the cheaper end of the range) and a few traxxas i asked why this is the case and my reply was customers tend to go for the cheaper stuff know. the market aint their for the mid to high end rc's know a days and i would say this applys to a lot of shops. the new generation of rc guys aint bothered in nostalger they want a different kind of rc to folk of our age this in my eyes is why these companys are doing what they are doing making rc cheaper hobby.

look at it this way if you was new to the hobby and walked into a lhs and was after let say the bruiser type rc and had no idea on what they sell for you would have a heart attack when they told you the price but then they got a better alternative that is at least less than half the price what would you go for.

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1 hour ago, topforcein said:

i have seen my lhs witch i have been using for the past 20 years at least go from mainly tamiya on sale to some traxxas creeping in then over the past few years tamiya aint on sale n the huge numbers that used to be and the last time i visited witch was a few weeks back is know mainly full of cheap rc's and a handfull of tamiya(the cheaper end of the range) and a few traxxas i asked why this is the case and my reply was customers tend to go for the cheaper stuff know. the market aint their for the mid to high end rc's know a days and i would say this applys to a lot of shops. the new generation of rc guys aint bothered in nostalger they want a different kind of rc to folk of our age this in my eyes is why these companys are doing what they are doing making rc cheaper hobby.

look at it this way if you was new to the hobby and walked into a lhs and was after let say the bruiser type rc and had no idea on what they sell for you would have a heart attack when they told you the price but then they got a better alternative that is at least less than half the price what would you go for.

Traxxas, while being based in the United States, is solely manufactured in Taiwan. It's also worth mentioning that Traxxas sued their main distributor in North America, Hobbico, which seems to have precipitated in an eventual bankruptcy filing. http://www.thercnetwork.com/rc-cars/hobbico-bankruptcy-effects-rc-hobby/

And they appear to treat their employees poorly as well: https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Traxxas-Reviews-E339225.htm

Traxxas aren't eclipsing Tamiya, they are part of the problem IMO

We were all "new to the hobby" at some point, and we probably all did a double-take when we saw the price tag. For some of us, the price was worth it. Fortunately Tamiya's central corporate creed is "have fun", and are the industry leaders of bringing inexpensive and well-designed entry level models to market. Literally "something for everyone".

Tamiya is often the reason why people get into this hobby to begin with. I know it was for me :D

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22 hours ago, OCD said:

Think of it this way: For every one of these trucks that get sold, that's one less sale for Tamiya

That's not always the case though. I can say with my hand on my heart that I would NEVER buy a new one, I couldn't justify the expense. 

I'm not saying that makes it ok to steal designs but for me personally, it would be a case of getting a clone or nothing at all.

And in contrast, if I did have the kind of disposal income to afford a new genuine one I probably wouldn't be interested in a knock off one anyway.

Chances are I won't get one anyway but it does cause temptation when something you had accepted you would never have suddenly dangles in reach of you and I do wonder if people in my position make up the majority of the customer base as opposed to wealthier people cheaping out and buying something worse than they can afford.

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2 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

Chances are I won't get one anyway but it does cause temptation when something you had accepted you would never have suddenly dangles in reach of you and I do wonder if people in my position make up the majority of the customer base as opposed to wealthier people cheaping out and buying something worse than they can afford.

that's was what wanted to say but didn't want to offend but i total'y agree i being one i dont have a lot or even hardly any spare cash to keep my self in this hobby i love so much and its my only hobby aswell and i find it really hard to keep it up. know i aint knocking the well of ones if i had a good disposable income it would bother me but if i did'nt already own a bruiser i would def be interested in it.

on the other hand next time anyone goes past a aldi or lidl look on the car park and see how many flash cars(well off people) are on there.

the owner/director's of my last job always shoped there but drove around in £100+thousand cars and live's in a huge flash house in the sticks shop at them shops 

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Whoops !! So sorry, gentlemen ! 

Thanks for the help, anyway ! Really appreciate that !!

Hokay, Mr. Admin...you may please this delete this thread ...

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Clearly, this means Tamiya needs to bring back the original lower-priced 3-speed. Blazing something...?

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I just checked and its 470$ Canadian plus shipping and taxes - I bought my Rere kit for under 800$ landed at my door. It would only be about 200$ less in the end for a knockoff.

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On 5/24/2018 at 6:33 PM, Aleblanc said:

I just checked and its 470$ Canadian plus shipping and taxes - I bought my Rere kit for under 800$ landed at my door. It would only be about 200$ less in the end for a knockoff.

That was the first seller out of the blocks. It can already be had for $370 Canadian.

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Can one of the mods split this thread into two? Keep the original about the clone Tamiya and make a new thread with all of the food talk? I'd like to respond to both topics, but don't want to stray this thread off track anymore than it already has gone with the food posts.

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I think I see this slightly different to other people.

Tamiya to my mind have missed a trick in that we love our old cars BUT Tamiya have made it very hard to keep them going. Up until the Re-Re's appeared there were very few parts around for the older models and models were being canibalised to keep them going, many of us bought donor vehicles.

As the motor trade has discovered parts make a better profit than the intiial sale does. The initial sale ties you into buying parts and using the approved dealer network if its a new car. Tamiya could have continued making spares and sold them which would have made a higher profit but they didn't. Just think the price of a body, set of tyres and wheels and you're not far off the cost of a new model so higher profit off less cost.

I do agree on the face of it this is an infringement on Tamiya's IP BUT if it is an infringement of low quality it will give Tamiya the chance to sell huge amounts of spares and with the initial sale price provides a good lead in to the hobby of 3speeds and big rigs that are incredibly pricey. It shouldn't damage Tamiya's reputation as it clearly isn't a Tamiya, remember all of the fake TL01 chassis that were on Ebay a few years back? they did nothing to damage Tamiya's reputation either.

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You might have a point there. Thinking of the fake TL-01 example, I know of a couple of people who bought these, realised how dodgy they were, then spent a good bit of money on genuine Tamiya parts to sort out their inadequacies.

Tamiya probably ended up better off because of the fakes, both in terms of part sales, and in terms of their reputation as the whole exercise showed the difference in quality between the fakes and the real thing. 

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I did that with a HBX cheapy I bought. One of my first purchases when I got back into RC. I eventually cracked the chassis and pretty much ended up replacing most of it with Tamiya parts.

Also while copyright infringement isn't fair, the Bruiser is a 30 yr old design, and some countries like England have a limits, depending. There was a case several years ago of an English gentlemen selling replica Star Wars helmets and costumes. He was of course sued by Lucas who won in the US, but had to pursue in England, but lost. see http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-12910683  for a very specific case ending shortly. Copyright these days is usually 75 years plus the life of the author, but I think that is too long personally.

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Anybody who's interested in seeing more pics of this rip-off should have a look for an Instagram user 'tamiya.taiwan' where they've been comparing an original vs this copy. The quality is actually quite surprising & it looks like a complete clone down to nut & bolt level - Not that I'd ever endorse buying a fake or copy of course, but I've been quite surprised at this at it's almost like they've used the Tamiya tooling (minus branding).

 

www.instagram.com/tamiya.taiwan/

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1 hour ago, max69vk said:

Anybody who's interested in seeing more pics of this rip-off should have a look for an Instagram user 'tamiya.taiwan' where they've been comparing an original vs this copy. The quality is actually quite surprising & it looks like a complete clone down to nut & bolt level - Not that I'd ever endorse buying a fake or copy of course, but I've been quite surprised at this at it's almost like they've used the Tamiya tooling (minus branding).

 

www.instagram.com/tamiya.taiwan/

I bet that is "Tamiya Treasure's" Instagram account. He is (or at least was) active here on TC. A very sincere and credible person.

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It's hit Ebay in the Uk today priced at £289.99 Deliver to the UK from China.

Available here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323278753358

On a further note have the Bruiser and Mountain rider been discontinued? I have been waiting since December 2017 for Stella models to get them back in stock and they still haven't after 6 months.

 

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4 hours ago, Sickpup said:

It's hit Ebay in the Uk today priced at £289.99 Deliver to the UK from China.

Available here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323278753358

On a further note have the Bruiser and Mountain rider been discontinued? I have been waiting since December 2017 for Stella models to get them back in stock and they still haven't after 6 months.

 

i would only buy that when its on sale in the uk and is in stock in the uk that sellers feedback is bad tbh and i would'nt trust him with that kind of cash.

and the bruiser is on sale in model sport atm but i think the mountain rider is discontinued.

 

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On 5/30/2018 at 5:39 PM, topforcein said:

i would only buy that when its on sale in the uk and is in stock in the uk that sellers feedback is bad tbh and i would'nt trust him with that kind of cash.

and the bruiser is on sale in model sport atm but i think the mountain rider is discontinued.

 

I would buy it from Gearbest because their "priority line" shipping involves the item being sent to their own facility/associate in Europe first before being sent to the UK so there are no import fees.

With Chinese ebay sellers and Aliexpress it seems hit or miss. Both my Feiyue FY03 and Hunaqi 739 were purchased from Chinese ebay seller/Ali and they both went to Europe first before being sent on to me. Perhaps gearbest were also behind those ebay accounts or there is a common associate in Europe whom they ship stuff to before it is sent on to the customer. I did notice that the items were packaged the same way stuff from gearbest is with the grey shrink wrap and a UK outlet adapter included.

The problems is that the ebay and aliexpress sellers make no mention of this so you have no idea if that's how they will ship it or not. Perhaps there's some kind of import tax avoidance at work and thats why they don't mention it.

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Honestly... I can't say this isn't tempting. And I'm not sure it debases or damages "real" Bruisers, any more than the dozens of knockoff Telecaster and Les Paul guitars damage Fender and Gibson. You know it's not the real thing, but it's 95% of the look and feel for 25% of the price. Those who can pay a premium for the name brand and the higher quality, and those who can't settle for a lesser version. The knockoff is mass-produced, and has some rough edges, but it's a toy; you don't need Swiss watch precision. If it's "good enough," then it will sell; if it's a complete pile of junk, then it will go away.

As for the company getting knocked off: maybe it isn't fair to them, but honestly, that's their problem to solve. And it's not like these guys are trying to pass this off as a "Tamiya Bruiser." The way Gibson and Fender have dealt with this problem is to offer their own cut-rate versions, under the Epiphone and Squier brands, sometimes actually made by the same factories who made the knockoffs. Maybe Tamiya should do something similar: move the plastic 3-speed chassis down-market, to allow those of us who just want to play with a multi-speed transmission to get a "real" one for less, and leave the all-metal version as the premium version.

I still wouldn't buy one of these, but for any IP reasons or any concept of "fairness" to Tamiya. I don't need or want any more junk electronics to clutter up my hobby room, or useless NiMH batteries that won't hold a charge to recycle, or wall-wart chargers to feel bad about throwing out. But if it were available without the electronics, then yeah, I admit I would look into one.

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