Tamiya prices at Tower/MAP Pricing

[Kingfisher]

2 hours ago, tamiya_1971 said:

Wow. I can only hope that Tamiya loses sales due to this

They have. Mine. 

I've seen what the prices were. I'm not paying the new increased price when I seen it cheaper previously. I'll wait until the prices come down or buy used at a better price. I may even consider trying other brands with better prices.

[kevinb120]

Well that's 5 models from them I'm not buying this summer.  Whole reason I was buying tamiya reres was the prices

[Juls1]

That pretty much just hands the sales to Hong Kong really.

in Australia where I live a MAP or minimum advertised price restriction by a manufacturer or wholesaler is basically illegal, fines for a company like that is around the 10 million Aussie dollars mark for trying to implement essentially price fixing. 

Our consumer laws basically make monopoly’s and price fixing illegal. There is also laws to protect businesses who want to parallel import products. IE: the direct tamiya importer here has 0 power to stop another business bringing in tamiya products as well and selling them in this market. In fact if a business in Australia makes any effort to stop it then they can land themselves with fines running into the millions. 

The purpose is to ensure consumers get the best deal and are not being unfairly treated. Of course a lot of these things are mitigated by people directly importing at low prices anyway. 

It will be sad to see America going this way as it won’t help business there in the long run if it’s seen to be ripping off its customers. 

Juls

[yogi-bear]

I had a few random thoughts:

If they can't stop the Chinese clones, who's quality seems to be getting better and better, they've just given people a huge incentive to buy clones. I for one wanted a Bruiser or Mountaineer, so now that cheap chinese clone, which by all reports seem well made, is looking very tempting. I am a Tamiya fan, but I like many others do not have an unlimited budget.

We live in an era where its not uncommon for an average RC enthusiast to have 10 to 20 cars. This new strategy with Tamiya does not jibe with that.

I am not really surprised by this looking back when they pulled stock from Banzai some 12 months ago for selling too cheaply. This is just the final step in that direction. It makes me wonder how they were selling to distributors.

Sales will clearly tank, and surely they have factored this in. Maybe they really do only care about the Japanese market, although I find that hard to believe.

I suspect this is all Tamiya products, not just RC, but modelling, paints etc too. Given the number of other companies that have bitten the dust lately or had to be sold, maybe its part of a longer term strategy to stay viable.

At these new prices, Tamiya will also want to also increase the offering. I'd be expecting at least proper bearings to be supplied. they clearly can afford to do that.

Maybe they are trying to copy Apple's business model. Market share doesn't matter if you are turning a good profit, but I doubt Tamiya can differentiate themselves in the market like Apple can. If they are copying Apple, then this reeks of Apple in the mid-90s when they started to lose their way.

If they are going to copy any business model, Apple is not the one, it should be Lego.

Apple also clearly tightly controls the sale price of their products and you rarely if ever see big discounts, so there must be a way they can do this without breaking any price fixing laws.

Also, I wonder who gets the difference in profit that is made with the higher sell price? Maybe its split or all goes to the retailer. If thats the case and Tamiya can position themselves like Apple, then it will be a bonus for retailers in the long term. However I seriously doubt that will happen.

This move screams more reactionary than well thought out though, hopefully this is just a hiccup on the path of Tamiya and not the start of their demise.

[Hobbimaster]

Wow! The Frog was $169, now its $220! I know Traxxas recently announced price decreases in the U.S. on most of their entry level RTR cars (Bandit $149, Rustler $159, Stampede $169) and Tamiya is doing just the opposite. Looks like I may be done adding any more re-releases to the collection.

[speedy_w_beans]

This latest development with Tamiya minimum pricing reminds me of a few paragraphs from the book, Master Modeler: Creating the Tamiya Style.  On pages 237-238 of the book, part of David Binger's letter to Shunsako Tamiya recalls some incidents around price negotiations that illustrate just how Tamiya as a company thinks of its products.  An excerpt from the book:

"In the early years I used to often try to negotiate better prices in order match the cost price with an attractive retail price in the UK.  Usually you were very receptive and cooperative, with the result that we had some spectacular successes particularly with the 1/12th F1 series.  But I learned that I had to handle my negotiations with you with some considerable skill, and one year, my skill let me down and I made a bad mistake!"

"The negotiation involved the price of the Waterline British Battleship Nelson.  Glynn and I thought it had good possibilities as a volume item, being a popular British subject, but at a much cheaper price.  As the negotiations proceeded I started to make my mistakes.  Then I declared the quantity we could buy at the special price.  But still I was not winning.  So then I made my classic error.  I asked why a rival company's battleship was cheaper than Tamiya's battleships, so why could you not reduce the price accordingly.  I could not even close my mouth, when you leapt from your chair and shouted that if I wanted your rival's prices, I could buy their kits, but if I wanted Tamiya quality, I had to pay Tamiya's price, and with that you threw the rival firm's kit at me and walked out!  I had lost and had to buy the quantity I committed to and sell the stock at a special low price!  I learned a very valuable lesson that day.  I never compared a Tamiya kit with any other kit ever again."

"I should have known better, because I knew the wonderful story of when Mike Tager of UPC came from the USA to Shizuoka to buy plastic kits in bulk to put them into his own UPC boxes.  He was at that time the biggest overseas kit buyer to come to Japan.  He chose several Tamiya kits and offered to buy big quantities.  But when it came to prices, he took out some scales, weighed the plastic and offered his price by the weight of the plastic of each kit.  Your father reacted by throwing him out with the words, 'I am a plastic kit manufacturer--not a butcher!'"

Now, you have to keep in mind these stories come from a time when plastic modeling and RC cars were big business.  Lots of teens were gluing models together and running RC cars.  In the rest of the book Tamiya recalls a fair number of 'firsts' associated with them.  They were leaders in a moment in history when there was plenty of demand for the product, and they were clear about what they stood for.

Time has marched forward, though.  People have gotten older. The people who glued plastic models in the 60s/70s/80s, ran slot cars in the 60s/70s, ran RC cars in the 80s/90s, etc. are aging out of the market.  Certainly there are some newcomers, but let's face it, a lot of us around here are in the hobby for nostalgic reasons.  People are busier than ever and don't have as much time for hobbies, or are distracted by video screens.

Then you have to consider what Tamiya has been doing with their products lately.  The first 100 had some amazing metal construction, brass gears, detailed styrene bodies, accurate sponsor decals, etc.  They were truly "models suitable for radio control."  Many of their RC products today are lost in no-man's land -- generally not competitive as racing vehicles (unless you buy the latest on-road TRF), and generally not as detailed a scale model anymore with polycarbonate bodies, fake sponsors, and ABS plastic chassis.

As an overall operation Tamiya likely has considerable assets in their buildings, molds, production lines, design and marketing departments, etc.  I'm not sure if the Japanese way is to have a job for life as it once was, but I would think in a shrinking market Tamiya still feels loyalty towards their workers and wants to maintain their physical assets as well.  Raising prices is potentially one way to make up the revenue when sales volumes decline, but it is a big risk they are taking when they are in no-man's land.

The sharks are circling.  Some brands are bringing better entry-level products to market these days.  Others are still pushing the racing performance envelope further.  A few brands are bringing amazingly realistic details to market with fully licensed products for off-road and drifting.  If Tamiya wants to enforce some form of minimum pricing at the retail level, then they better be prepared to bring more capabilities, better materials, more details, more licensing to go with those prices.  After all, if they are being true to their history, then they are awfully proud of their products and think they deserve more.  The market will respond in kind to whatever they do.

For me personally, I bought a number of NIBs over the past 8 years to keep me busy through retirement (just another 20 years away!).  At the rate I complete projects (maybe 2 a year), I'm set for life.  My biggest fear is the correct paints won't be available when I'm ready to work on a project.  Tamiya will have to bring something really enticing to market at these MAP prices for me to open my wallet again.

 

[Re-Bugged]

Ahhhh, Just as I was getting into it reliving what was out of reach in my youth, deja vu. 

[Fuijo]

8 hours ago, Saito2 said:

If prices aren't hiked in countries other than the US, this raises the question of a theory posted on another board, possible cause being related to the Trump tariffs.

Well, the fact remains that the 1st June has come and gone, and Tamico's prices are still exactly the same. Read into that what you will.

[Tamiyabigstuff]

MAP does not prevent retailers from bundling extra goodies with a kit or maybe giving vouchers against future purchases 

 

[Badcrumble]

I was going to ask how it works in the U.K./EU.

I’ve never worked in retail so have no experience (so more than happy to have my theorising corrected).

Do Tamiya sell at a price to a distributor who then sell on to vendors?

If so, do Tamiya lose control of pricing at the point of sale?

The distributor/ vendor is then free to sell the product on at a price appropriate for their profit / loss?

If so, would Tamiya just raise the price at which they sell to the distributor? Possibly meaning that they, in turn, purchase less stock and sell it on at a higher price to the vendor who, again, passes on the price hike (or at least, as much as they feel they can).

[Juls1]

I believe the MAP is probably limited to TamiyaUSA. I doubt tamiya Japan has anything to do with limiting advertised prices as it is illegal in some country’s. 

[Jason1145]

Just as well lately I’m actually getting into running my RC cars a bit more now and finding out how good other brands are again... Tamiya was a bit of a nostalgic whim for the most part whilst I was more home bound bringing up my baby girl, but as time progresses and she grows it will give me more free time outside the house to actually go drive RC again... which Tamiya can’t compete with.

@speedy_w_beans that guy you quoted sounds a real peach don’t he, I’d be glad to buy another’s products just to stop funding his bank balance.... nose spite face yes.

[nowinaminute]

I didn't think this practice was legal still? Isn't it known as price fixing in the UK? 

Very disappointing to hear. As far as I'm concerned, it was the combination of quality AND value that was Tamiya's "thing". Even though the entry level kits are priced aggressively they are still pretty nicely made and a pleasure to assemble.

They are pricing even some of those basic models into Traxxas territory. Don't get me wrong, Tamiya re-re kits have much more character but many of them are dynamically hopeless next to a Traxxas of the same price.

They are also pricing the entry level models significantly above some of the new wave of decent stuff from China such as ECX, FTX etc. My nearest hobby shop actually stocks FTX cars and parts now as opposed to Tamiya, the guy said apart from an initial wave of nostalgia based purchases, the sales have been gotten slow for Tamiya kits.

No ECX, FTX, HSP etc has the charm of an old Tamiya kit but they can drive rings around a Tamiya which counts for a lot when you want something for every day use.

I guess nostalgia is an inherently finite market, there's only so many people out there from each generation wanting to relive childhood memories.

Maybe it's that old business practice of "its better to squeeze a few lemons hard than to squeeze many lemons softly" but I don't think that's a good long term plan, especially if you run out of lemons.

 

 

[Saito2]

Didn't Traxxas pull this garbage a while back. Since Traxxas sold their products direct, they wouldn't let online retailers (or LHS) sell products for less than what the Traxxas website had them listed. That's why when Tower carried Traxxas products, none of the coupon codes were valid on their products. How much power does Tamiya USA have over pricing? Could this be from them and not Japan as Juls1 suggested? As was previously stated Tamico and RCmart's prices haven't changed. I'd really like to retain some respect for Tamiya Japan in all this mess.

[kevinb120]

To be honest using that analogy, trumpeter and dragon offers modern slide molded parts and three times the parts for their ship and tank kits, with photo etch sheets for 2010+ releases. Both are less then tamiya 25 yo simple kits with zero development and new tooling costs.  Most armor kits from dragon make tamiya look like airfix, just with parts that fit.

[nowinaminute]

9 minutes ago, kevinb120 said:

To be honest using that analogy, trumpeter and dragon offers modern slide molded parts and three times the parts for their ship and tank kits, with photo etch sheets for 2010+ releases. Both are less then tamiya 25 yo simple kits with zero development and new tooling costs.  Most armor kits from dragon make tamiya look like airfix, just with parts that fit.

Same with a lot of the RC kits, nicely moulded and fit together well but either really old designs or new designs that have had to be made from parts that were introduced a long time ago. For some models that doesn't really matter I guess but still, what's to stop Tamiya making something that's competitive with at least Traxxas dynamically and still has a ton of character? 

It's not even like Traxxas stuff is especially new or advanced. The Slash is just a varation of the Stampede which is itself an evolution of the Sledgehammer. It's not like Traxxas is pouring millions into R&D when it comes to its best selling models. 

[kevinb120]

Yes, but my slash vxl does kick serious butt, it's even been run over by a car with only a few bucks worth of repairs, and god knows how many trees I've hit over 4' in the air only to drive away.  If I've got 30 min to bash, it's always ready for brutal action. The **** thing just works.

 

tbh though I only look to tamiya to relive 1982-1990

[howaboutme]

Quite surprised that Tamiya didn't have MAP pricing to begin with. (Never compared prices to really check.) MAP is nothing new, especially for disposable income products like this hobby. I was in reef keeping (fish tanks) and just about everything related to that hobby is MAP pricing. So much so that even the holiday sale prices were coordinated between all retailers. Similarly, in rc helis, a lot of the products are MAP pricing too. I also thought other rc car products were MAP too, no?

Retailers have gotten around it by providing credit towards feature purchases mentioned above like what both Amain or Tower have done...

[tamiya3speed]

From what I remember, when Traxxas disallowed discounting people said it was to level the field between online retailers and brick and mortar shops.  Now there are plenty of reasons people have to complain about Traxxas but that is a noble idea if it truly was the case.  That change also didn't come with an outright  35% local price increase as seen here.  In the end I am sure that Tamiya will find out very quickly this was a bad move that has alienated a number of loyal supporters and will drive their market share even lower in the US.  I just hope somebody there is smart enough (or willing enough to swallow their pride) to reverse course.

 

[78Triumph]

Well, I've been wanting to add some Kyosho kits to my stash, looks like that's going to happen sooner than later.   Glad I bought my Boomerang and Sand Scorcher kits this past month.  Very dissapointing.  I wanted a Wild One but if they jack that up I might as well get a Scorpion or a Optima Mid. 

[Hobbimaster]

1 hour ago, 78Triumph said:

Well, I've been wanting to add some Kyosho kits to my stash, looks like that's going to happen sooner than later.   Glad I bought my Boomerang and Sand Scorcher kits this past month.  Very dissapointing.  I wanted a Wild One but if they jack that up I might as well get a Scorpion or a Optima Mid. 

It looks like Kyosho is also raising prices. Just took a quick look at prices for the Turbo Scorpion, and regular Scorpion kits on eBay, some have now passed the $250 mark. I remember buying my Scorpion kit from Tower for $219. Both Tower and Amain have had Kyosho kits on backorder for a while now. Chances are pretty good that if you do not backorder these kits, they will be listed at the higher prices once they become available.

[kevinb120]

I've been watching for the base Scorpion and haven't seen it for a while, I may just have to step up to the Turbo, or the Optima, it does have that awesome chain drive after all.   I wouldn' mind one for my 'historical 80's model kyosho' for my collection.  Funny, It's been a day and I'm already looking up the re-release Kyosho and Associated models for my hit list.

[Biz73]

Kyosho was recently bought up by an investment bank, so we will see what happens there.

If this is just a US thing it will hurt this market a bit, but as has been mentioned, the Tamiya fan will pay the extra. It's the new customers that they will lose. Tamiya is not the largest RC company in the US by a long shot. This may not hurt sales that much at the moment, but what happens when the nostalgic generation dies?

Towers discounts have gotten less generous since the buyout by Horizon as well.

It's a strange time in this hobby. We'll see how it all plays out in the next couple years.

[kevinb120]

I still see most kits with free shipping from Japan at the same price as Tower(minus any coupons), like $159 for a WW2

[nowinaminute]

18 hours ago, kevinb120 said:

Yes, but my slash vxl does kick serious butt, it's even been run over by a car with only a few bucks worth of repairs, and god knows how many trees I've hit over 4' in the air only to drive away.  If I've got 30 min to bash, it's always ready for brutal action. The **** thing just works.

 

tbh though I only look to tamiya to relive 1982-1990

I totally agree, love my Slash and E-Maxx.

My point was that Traxxas invested in some good designs that are sturdy and perform well off road and they are getting good mileage from the designs, they aren't having to bring a new model out each year to stay competitive so if Tamiya made a chassis with similar prowess they could get a lot of life out of it too, it's not like they would have to totally change their business philosophy and try and keep on the bleeding edge of technology, just a good basher platform that can be made a MT, SCT, Buggy etc. Anything you want.

It doesn't have to substitute or displace any outgoing Tamiya model.