WT01: 2wd vs 4wd

[ALEXKYRIAK]

Hi all, I know this has probably been covered before but I can’t find where I read it on this forum. 

I have an unbuilt WT01 kit, which I was intending to run in 2wd rwd, as I’d read that 2wd rwd was more fun than 4wd configuration.

Is this true? What are the differing characteristics of running this chassis in 2wd vs 4wd?

I was all ready to build with the single gear box but now I’m having doubts. A monster truck in 2wd doesn’t sound right....!

I realise there are additional considerations with the two motor setup in respect of all the electronics etc  

All thoughts and comments much appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[TurnipJF]

From what I've read, the rear wheel drive configuration is better for fast driving, jumping, etc because the placeholder for the front gearbox has better geometry than an actual gearbox does. However if you want to drive slower over more challenging terrain then 4 wheel drive is better.

[wilsonian]

Really depends what you want it for - as a basher a 4WD system is pretty fun and can almost go any where - just keep in mind that one motor is technically in reverse so if you get better motors than the silver cans make sure they are balanced.

[zomboided]

I've gone 4wd, 4ws and it's a capable truck and a really fun build. Before I did, the 2wd was just plain fun. I have a Monster Beetle now to do that job.  Don't know that there is a right answer to your question that's not "get two trucks"

[Kingfisher]

Two threads that may interest you.

 

 

and

 

 

[ALEXKYRIAK]

Thanks a lot guys. I think I may go for the 4wd configuration as it’s not for jumps or racing, just general bashing about on terrain. 

It’s interesting that whilst it’s 4 driven wheels, it’s actually 2 sets of 2wd which are not mechanically linked. It’s an interesting concept on this chassis. 

1 hour ago, zomboided said:

Don't know that there is a right answer to your question that's not "get two trucks"

 that’s what I love about this forum. 

Great thread links @Kingfisher , thanks. 

 

[TurnipJF]

4 hours ago, ALEXKYRIAK said:

It’s interesting that whilst it’s 4 driven wheels, it’s actually 2 sets of 2wd which are not mechanically linked. It’s an interesting concept on this chassis. 

It is, and one that opens up all sorts of interesting possibilities if you fit two ESCs and connect them to separate channels, for example adjustable power and brake bias, electronic dig and the ability to do all sorts of strange manoeuvres by spinning the motors in opposite directions.

[Kingfisher]

2 hours ago, ALEXKYRIAK said:

 

Great thread links @Kingfisher , thanks. 

 

Going on what @TurnipJF says, look at @Nitomor's build. He used dual ESC's and has his set up to be FWD, RWD, or 4WD. There's videos of his running in that thread. For mine, I used a single ESC and reversed the polarity of one of the motors, so mine is always 4WD. 

I also found it cheaper in the long run to buy a used WT01 for parts to go with my existing kit rather than buying all of the needed parts separately. So, technically, you need 3 trucks. Two to make one into a 4WD, and one to keep as a RWD. 

[Nobbi1977]

I enjoy the 2wd more. Having one motor running backwards makes motor choice a pain and it is no faster with two anyway. Turning and handling at basher speeds is better in 2wd but it is not a race truck in either configuration. The money spent on a second gearbox is better spent on shock towers and shocks in my opinion.

I was thinking the other day about selling my Wild Dagger or converting it to 2wd.

[Juggular]

I have Wild Dagger and Blackfoot.  I like 2WD Blackfoot better, (even though it's not WT01).  By the same token, I like Wild Willy2 better than WT01. 

Wild Dagger goes where you tell it to go.  It feels a bit robotic to me, if that makes sense.  It's evenly weighed --like midship cars--, and it does feel like it spins at the center when it steers.  I guess that could be a good thing.  But Midship feels a bit toy-like to me.  Also front and rear play separately.  If the rear is burdened, front won't care.  If the front is burdened, rear won't care.  Two motors and two gearboxes make it heavier than Hotshot, Bigwig or DF02. I like these linked-4WD.  But WT01's 2-motor 4WD feels "clunky."  

I like heavier Blackfoot body weighing down on the chassis, and 2WD spinning under the weight.  Also bigger suspension play of Blackfoot.  WT01 has small suspension travel, so I would recommend taller suspension towers and taller shocks.  Wild Dagger has a light Lexan body, so it moves freer, and thus it might feel less realistic to me. I am biased toward 2WD in RC.  In real life, I drive a 2004 Subaru.  Subaru AWD is great.  Wild Dagger's unlinked 4WD, however, feels "rambunctious" and rather uncontrolled.  That could be a good thing for you, since it's going to be a basher.  Try 4WD, and if you like it, that's fantastic.  If you sense the things I've talked about, you could always try to get rid of the substantial weight in the front, and see how you like 2WD.  

[Mad Ax]

I've driven in both configurations and there's not much to choose between them, for a pure basher.  First mine was bone-stock RWD, fitting shock towers and 100mm alu shocks made a massive difference over stock.  It ran really well with a Super Stock BZ and was pretty much unbreakable.  It went well over many terrains but like any 2wd truck it got out of shape on steep climbs.  My friend's 4WD on silvercans was virtually unstoppable where mine would get stuck and it had an interesting 'chunky' feel to the handling, where mine felt a bit light and willing to lift a wheel on corners.

Then I got really silly and went for modded HPI GT550s on 12 cell NIMH power, and I ruined the truck.  The suspension couldn't handle the weight of the additional stick pack along with the metal chassis I bought.  Partly my fault because I was running super-grippy Ho Bao Monster tyres which looked awesome but had way too much grip.  They also needed wheel spacers to stop them rubbing the chassis, which added to my suspension geometry woes.

I had to fit twin linked servos up front to make it steer, and it would break knuckles for a pasttime.  If I'd gone back to a single stick pack or even 3s LiPo on stock tyres I'd have had a brilliant truck, but instead I got bored and sold it.

I'm planning another 4WD build sometime (I have most of the bits, just not the time!) and it will probably run 3s on silvercans.  Mods-wise I'll start with 100mm shocks, possibly add turnbuckles, and consider another twin servo setup on the front steering for better geometry.  They're the kind of truck that you can start real basic and just keep on tweeking with a little bit here and there - that's why I love them so much.

[wolfdogstinkus]

6wd is best.

 

[Juls1]

I’ve seen your builds. I know that whatever happens, you’ll probably end up with the other gearbox anyway. 

[nowinaminute]

I agree with the general consensus with stock or with mild power, the 2wd is a little more wayward and fun. Also when jumping it tends to naturally assume a slightly nose up attitude which makes it easy to jump. The 4wd is more composed, much better on grass etc and will keep its momentum over rougher terrain than the 2wd. Top speed is the same but it will get there quicker, especially on grass or other high drag surfaces.

When you start upping the power though, I find the 4wd starts to claw back some fun points because it's character changes, because the gearboxes are seperate there's a sort of electronic diff effect and it's more pronounced with more powerful motors because of the extra energy throwing the truck around.

Every time the front or rear end leaves the ground the wheels will spin up and then when they touch again there's a suden kick in the pants sending it rocketing forwards again. This gives it quite an unpredictable nature over certain terrain that adds a fun factor and It still makes absoloute mincemeat of gradients and grass etc.

So I would say it depends both on where you will use it and AND how much power you will use. For on road and mild off road with modest power I would go RWD. For off road with modest power go for 4WD

If you want something crazy that's great off road and fun on road with the front and rear end appearing to fight each other then get the 4wd and put in a couple of powerful brushed motors or moderate brushless motors.

 

[ALEXKYRIAK]

Ok so now am torn between the two options.... @zomboided nailed it, I need to get two trucks. 2wd and 4wd.... (and 2 shelfers). Was thinking either 1 or 2 x 13.5T brushless (depending on if it's 2wd or 4wd). Is that overkill on this truck? Or is this "mild" enough. If going 4wd, I'll keep it front steering only.

 

[Kingfisher]

1 hour ago, ALEXKYRIAK said:

 Is that overkill on this truck? 

Watch @Nitomor's videos on page 4 of his thread. He's using HPI Flux Shots, which I think are 4300Kv brushless (9Turn?). 

 

 

 

 

[markbt73]

When I had a Wild Dagger, I tried all kinds of configurations, just to see what would happen. 2WD, 4WD, 4WD with one diff locked, 4WD with both diffs locked, FWD (didn't jump well at all, but climbed like a billy goat), 55 turn motors, brushless motors...

My advice: get the 4WD version, and experiment. It's like having several trucks in one.

[Nitomor]

Thanks Kingfisher,

I'm really pleased with my setup, although they are 4300kv 9T, I would say mine are 380 based can size (with the integrated cooling fins the case is exactly the same dimensions as a 540)  therefore don't have the same torque as a 540 based 4300kv. This is probably a good thing, for me it's plenty fast without being too much. What opened things up so much for me was the Futaba 10J remote with channel mixing etc which was a game changer with regards to configurability.

I tend to grab the RWD for most things as one of my bashers of choice, that too is also running the same 4300kv motor. However the twin motor is awesome and a real showpiece. Bottom line, it's what Zomboided said above lol " Don't know that there is a right answer to your question that's not "get two trucks"

And yes, I ended up with 2 WT01's to make one Twin motor rig. I had great fun building the twin motor, it is probably the dearest RC in my fleet but then I did go all out on it, being a huge fan of this platform I wanted it to be the ultimate incorporating everything I'd learnt from my other WT escapades.

 

[nowinaminute]

5 hours ago, Nitomor said:

I'm really pleased with my setup, although they are 4300kv 9T, I would say mine are 380 based can size (with the integrated cooling fins the case is exactly the same dimensions as a 540)  therefore don't have the same torque as a 540 based 4300kv. This is probably a good thing, for me it's plenty fast without being too mu

I agree, the finned motors still have more power than most brushed 540s and run cooler all else being equal but are slightly less insane than a full 540 when it comes to punch.

Incidentally, I've taken a couple apart and the rotors were at least 390 size aka 380 diameter but closer to 540 length. Probably the same rotor as you get in 2850 size brushless motors.

[ALEXKYRIAK]

If using twin motors/gearboxes, does it make sense to put the same viscosity into both, or to give them a different level of limited slip? Is it better to make the rear more limited than the front in the 4wd configuration? 

(This question is purely and utterly hypothetical... it doesn’t mean I’ve gone for 4wd at all..  )

[Nitomor]

Give it a try and let us know how it pans out

[Juls1]

Depends really what handling you want, for best steering you’ll want both fairly loose, if you want oversteer, front loose rear tight. If you want off throttle steering push the go tight front and back. More steering on throttle just go stiff front light back. 

I assume you’ll have fairly big tyres, as a result I think AW grease front and back would be fine. If you go down the putty road it can be difficult to get even front and back as it can be fiddly to get the right amount and also keeping it in the gears and doing its job. 

[Kingfisher]

I locked my rear diff and left the front open. I used Tamiya grease in the front. Handling isn't bad, but 4 wheel steering tracks kinda funny on grippy surfaces.

[wolfdogstinkus]

6wd is best.

I now have 3x 3300kv motors in this but they are the smaller can with cooling fins. It isnt fast enough. Lol. 

Just as well I have 3x 4300kv full size 540 motors waiting to go in. 

Let the carnage begin.

 

[wolfdogstinkus]

Sorry, wrong thread.