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ThunderDragonCy

DN01 mod log

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ThunderDragonCy, do you still have your ball diff and is it assembled?  I have both TA06 and FF03 kits, and I can take measurements of the diffs if that might help.

Edit:. I was browsing TamiyaUSA's site and downloaded manuals and parts lists for DN01, FF03, and FF03R.  It seems like the base DN01 and base FF03 both share the same 52T TRF201 ball diff gear set.  The FF03R is a hopped up FF03 that uses the TA06 gear diff.  So, if the TRF201 ball diff gear set fits both DN01 and FF03, and FF03 can use the TA06 gear diff, then it seems plausible the TA06 gear diff could be used with the DN01.  I can take a bunch of TA06 gear diff measurements and you can compare to your DN01 ball diff to see if it is a drop-in replacement.

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3 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

ThunderDragonCy, do you still have your ball diff and is it assembled?  I have both TA06 and FF03 kits, and I can take measurements of the diffs if that might help.

Edit:. I was browsing TamiyaUSA's site and downloaded manuals and parts lists for DN01, FF03, and FF03R.  It seems like the base DN01 and base FF03 both share the same 52T TRF201 ball diff gear set.  The FF03R is a hopped up FF03 that uses the TA06 gear diff.  So, if the TRF201 ball diff gear set fits both DN01 and FF03, and FF03 can use the TA06 gear diff, then it seems plausible the TA06 gear diff could be used with the DN01.  I can take a bunch of TA06 gear diff measurements and you can compare to your DN01 ball diff to see if it is a drop-in replacement.

Thanks. That would be super useful. I still have all the diff parts so I can measure that. I guess the key issue is the width across diff where it sits between the bearings and the width of the diff gear itself. They all use 48dp 52t diff gears so that isn't going to be an issue. Would appreciate any help.

Thanks.

Cy

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In order to use a TA06 diff in a ff03 you have to change the gear casing to 54398. It doesn’t drop into the stock ff03 gearcase. 

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2 hours ago, Juls1 said:

In order to use a TA06 diff in a ff03 you have to change the gear casing to 54398. It doesn’t drop into the stock ff03 gearcase. 

That is what I thought. I have 54398 and it's definitely wider than my 201 gearcase. How this works with the driveshafts I have no idea

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In my ff03 it was a direct swap. Still used the same driveshafts. 

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Here's what I measured from TA06R gear diff parts:

  • A.  Gear diff main case diameter; from tip of tooth to tip of tooth using calipers:  28.65 mm
  • B.  Gear diff teeth width:  9.90 mm (teeth positioned right against the gasket mounting surface)
  • C.  Gear diff main case width:  12.28 mm
  • D.  Gear diff gasket thickness:  0.62 mm
  • E.  Gear diff end cap thickness:  2.10 mm
  • F.  Gear diff width, C+D+E:  14.97 mm (measured) vs. 15.00 mm (calculated)
  • G.  Gear diff chamfer depth, below bearing/outdrive mounts:  ~1 mm
  • H.  Gear diff bearing mount/outdrive mount width:  4.30 mm
  • I.  Gear diff total width, all plastic minus outdrives, F+(2*(G+H)):  25.58 (measured) vs. 25.60 mm (calculated)
  • J.  Gear diff metal outdrive cup width, outer measurement:  13.00 mm
  • K.  Gear diff total width, outdrives installed, I+(2*J):  51.58 (measured) vs. 51.60 (calculated)
  • L.  Outdrive slot depth:  9.98 mm
  • M.  Outdrive slot width:  2.10 mm (so a CVD or dogbone cross pin doesn't bind)
  • N.  Outdrive outer diameter:  ~9.8 mm (so a ball bearing can slip past it)
  • O.  Outdrive inner diameter:  ~6.1 mm (so a CVD or dogbone end doesn't bind)
  • P.  Outdrive inner depth:  ~11.7 mm (measured from the outer edge of the outdrive to the inside center (caliper probe is too thick to get a better measurement)

I hope these measurements help.  It'll be interesting to compare the Kyosho gear diff and see how similar or different it is.  It'll also be interesting to compare against the original ball diff.

Maybe the TA06R outdrives will provide more plunge depth than the Kyosho ones...

Let me know if I can help with any other measurements.  I'm interested in your tinkering as I also have a DN01 NIB and would consider light modifications to support a gear diff in the future.

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3 hours ago, speedy_w_beans said:

Here's what I measured from TA06R gear diff parts:

  • A.  Gear diff main case diameter; from tip of tooth to tip of tooth using calipers:  28.65 mm
  • B.  Gear diff teeth width:  9.90 mm (teeth positioned right against the gasket mounting surface)
  • C.  Gear diff main case width:  12.28 mm
  • D.  Gear diff gasket thickness:  0.62 mm
  • E.  Gear diff end cap thickness:  2.10 mm
  • F.  Gear diff width, C+D+E:  14.97 mm (measured) vs. 15.00 mm (calculated)
  • G.  Gear diff chamfer depth, below bearing/outdrive mounts:  ~1 mm
  • H.  Gear diff bearing mount/outdrive mount width:  4.30 mm
  • I.  Gear diff total width, all plastic minus outdrives, F+(2*(G+H)):  25.58 (measured) vs. 25.60 mm (calculated)
  • J.  Gear diff metal outdrive cup width, outer measurement:  13.00 mm
  • K.  Gear diff total width, outdrives installed, I+(2*J):  51.58 (measured) vs. 51.60 (calculated)
  • L.  Outdrive slot depth:  9.98 mm
  • M.  Outdrive slot width:  2.10 mm (so a CVD or dogbone cross pin doesn't bind)
  • N.  Outdrive outer diameter:  ~9.8 mm (so a ball bearing can slip past it)
  • O.  Outdrive inner diameter:  ~6.1 mm (so a CVD or dogbone end doesn't bind)
  • P.  Outdrive inner depth:  ~11.7 mm (measured from the outer edge of the outdrive to the inside center (caliper probe is too thick to get a better measurement)

I hope these measurements help.  It'll be interesting to compare the Kyosho gear diff and see how similar or different it is.  It'll also be interesting to compare against the original ball diff.

Maybe the TA06R outdrives will provide more plunge depth than the Kyosho ones...

Let me know if I can help with any other measurements.  I'm interested in your tinkering as I also have a DN01 NIB and would consider light modifications to support a gear diff in the future.

Thanks so much for all the info. That is really useful. I'll tear down the gearbox and measure the Kyosho diff and I'll piece my ball diff together best I can and compare notes.

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PS - ordered the 201 cvd shafts. The mod blog for the gear diff didn't mention anything about shaft binding but he did it on a 201 so hoping this will sort it. Was also cheaper to buy these than a whole tamiya ball diff set and I don't want a ball diff.

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Gave the remnants of the ball diff a measure this morning.

Diff gear width 9mm

Width across inner bearing faces (so effectively the inside width of the 201 gear case with bearings installed) 10.5mm

Width across outdrives 49.8

Outdrives slot depth 14.1

Outdrives plunge depth with screw and foam stopper installed 10mm

So, looks like ta06 gear diff is identical width across the outdrives and have si.ilar plunge depth which is why it works with the stock driveshafts and suspension on the 201XMW, 211XM and indeed the FF03R vs FF03.

The clear issue for 201 gearbox owners is that the TA06 gear diff is 15mm wide across the inner faces. 4.5mm wider than the ball diff. I just don't think there is enough material in the 201 gearbox to remove 2.3 per side and still have any of the bearing housing shoulder left. 

I'll measure the Kyosho UMW604 diff when I next pull it apart.

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TRF double cardan driveshafts arrived today very promptly from a Japanese eBay seller. Got the instructions out

20180626_180044

First thing that made me apprehensive is spotting the 3mm thick 1050 bearing option required for the front of a TRF501. It mentions nothing about the rear but given that this mod has bound up the driveshafts I was concerned. Anyway, nothing ventured and all that, I assembled the left hand shaft and put the suspension together. Low and behold it works! Lovely smooth suspension travel. Installed the XV01 uprights to see if it still worked with these and it does! Winner!

DN01 gear diff works with double cardan driveshafts

To the park! Gorgeous warm evening, short, dry grass, lovely. This works so well. Drivetrain is so so smooth and I happily whizzed about for 20 minutes. Handling needs a bit of work with the mods made, but I just love driving this car. It's so smooth and fast and just lovely. If you have a TRF201 or DN01 with the ball diff and run on highish grip surfaces I can highly recommend having a look at this gear diff mod.

20180626_194145

(Gratuitous golden hour car in the sunshine shot)

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Managed to run this every morning this week on the way to work and I love it! Dry, recently cut grass on the field and it is great for running fast. I have put the mini spikes back on the front and after a bit of trial and error ended up going softer on the rear suspension which has stopped it grip rolling and really balanced the handling. I am now running the stiffer blue springs from the TRF501 front spring set and the black softest springs rear from the DF03 setting spring set. No preload at either end. 

I have been running a little circuit around some trees and a bench to try and improve my driving. 

Only thing I might try is some slightly thicker oil in the diff, and maybe going bqck to 2 hole pistons as its a little bouncy now with the soft springs, but really that is just tinkering. This thing is just great. If you are interested in something like this it's worth signing up to the TRF Off Road Facebook group as older rear motor 201s pop up on there every few weeks it seems. 

Cheers!

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The dn01 is very nice to drive, I really like my Zahak a lot, certainly nicer to drive than my dt02-03’s that’s for sure. 

Thats why I drive the zahak while friends and family drive my dt’s, looks like I’m driving something similar/same but secretly it’s so much better! 

 

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6 hours ago, Juls1 said:

The dn01 is very nice to drive, I really like my Zahak a lot, certainly nicer to drive than my dt02-03’s that’s for sure. 

Thats why I drive the zahak while friends and family drive my dt’s, looks like I’m driving something similar/same but secretly it’s so much better! 

 

Agreed. Definitely looking at toning down the motor/ESC in my DT03 so it can become a guests/kids car now.

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Been a few months since I popped anything on here. Mainly because I have simply been driving it and enjoying it. Earlier in the summer I got some aeration shocks on another car and was really struck by how much slower the damping was than my 3 hole piston cva on this. So much so that I switched this to 1 hole pistons with 350cst rear oil and 500cst front and it so much better. Much more composed. Here it is at Robin Hood Raceway in July 

20180714_145308

What had happened recently is that the trackstar sensorless 4370kv ESC died at the last track day and the 27mhz Rx went on the fritz too. I had a 13.5R MMM 3300kv sensored speed passion motor so I decided to plug this in with the hobby wing quicrun BL120 ESC I have in a couple of other buggies. To go with it I got a core RC 28t pinion and an associated 72t spur from Modelsport. Both fit nicely under the cover with no modifications to give a FDR of 6.69. Apparently you should aim for around 7 with 13.5. Got a 40mhz Rx off ebay to go with a Tx I picked up recently. Finally gave it a run today and it is sooooo nice. So smooth throttle control, really positive radio transmission (which makes me wonder if the previous radio had been dodgy for a while) and with some timing and punch on the ESC it's easily as fast - if not faster - than the trackstar setup. Given that had a 60a ESC is suspect the 120a ESC I have now is the key. 

I had to take the fan off the ESC to get it under the body, but even running on grass for 25 minutes ESC and motor temps were both still really good. 

Can't wait to run it at the track next weekend. 

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3 hours ago, nellyle said:

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but can anyone confirm that the kit below contains all the parts necessary to convert the DN01 to a gear diff?

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/kyosho-differential-gear-set-ultima-sc-db-rb5-rt5/rc-car-products/427967

 

Thanks

Yeah, that's the exact one i have and used up there in the thread. 

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28 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Yeah, that's the exact one i have and used up there in the thread. 

Great, thanks! I'll get it ordered as well as a back up gearbox for when I mess it up!

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On 1/28/2020 at 5:17 PM, nellyle said:

Great, thanks! I'll get it ordered as well as a back up gearbox for when I mess it up!

Sorry, one last question on this! Like you did, I'm suffering from the suspension binding due to driveshafts.

I've found this at Tamico, is this what sorted it for you? https://tamico.de/navi.php?a=154850&lang=eng

I only ask as the pic you attached a while back of the kit you bought has two part numbers on it!

Thanks 

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9 minutes ago, nellyle said:

Sorry, one last question on this! Like you did, I'm suffering from the suspension binding due to driveshafts.

I've found this at Tamico, is this what sorted it for you? https://tamico.de/navi.php?a=154850&lang=eng

I only ask as the pic you attached a while back of the kit you bought has two part numbers on it!

Thanks 

Yes, that is the correct part. 

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5 minutes ago, nellyle said:

Ah, just contacted Tamico to cancel! 

Annoyingly they don't do 42284.

Sorry. Glad you got to cancel it in time. There are a few 42284 on ebay. 

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