Info About Sport Tuned 380

[TurboTimmy]

Just a couple of questions.....

Is this motor used in 1/12 cars?  Or, more specifically, what does this motor get installed in? A plane? Boat?

Has anyone used it in, say, a Grasshopper?

I realize that you could easily just go get a silver can 540 and install it, but I was thinking of perhaps something different. Or is it a waste of time?

Thanks for any info.

[Juggular]

It could be an upgrade for Dancing Rider.  Or for 1/18th cars.  Or small electric airplanes.  

The torque of a motor comes from the magnetic force between the magnets and the rotor.  Bigger cans have bigger rotors.  For one, bigger rotors give you longer leverage.  Even with the same exact force applied, an 8 inch wrench will just give you more torque than a 6 inch wrench. 

Secondly, magnets are much bigger in 540 motors.  You can't do much about smaller magnets in a smaller can.  A smaller motor must take a lot more electricity to do the same work.  (I don't know, maybe a 13 turn 380 might do a little better than a silver can, but will drink more juice and will run much hotter)  A 380 motor just can't replace a 540 motor (unless it's brushless).  Even amongst brushless motors, a 540 sized brushless is stronger than a 380 sized brushless. 

[Below diagrams are just re-sized.  You can see how big the magnets (in gray) get, and how much more leverage bigger rotor can have.]

 

[TurboTimmy]

Thanks Juggular-that basically confirmed what I was guessing all along. If a Sport Tuned 380 was a viable alternative to a 540, then a lot of folks would have been using them already. I saw this product and quickly became curious.

[Wooders28]

Interesting,

Didn't actually know they did modified motors for the 380 size, always ran 540's or converted to 540's.

My daughter's ride on car has a 380, and needs more power, (I was hoping it was a 540 as I've loads of mod motors for those 🙄) one of those could be just the ticket? 

[TurboTimmy]

Yeah, it's just easier to go with a 540-even Tamiya suggests one in the Grasshopper build manual as an upgrade. Apparently the tuned 380 is used in Tamiya's RM-01 or TA05 chassis (according to the package). 540 silver cans are cheap and plentiful-so why would you go with the 380 if Tamiya itself recommends the 540? But I admit-I saw a Sport Tuned 380 and it looked interesting.

[OoALEJOoO]

Always looking for both a bargain and tinker with something new, the following video pits a 380-Sport Tuned against a Silvercan. The 380 seems to have less acceleration but more top speed than the Silvercan. I am guessing that if the 380 Sport-Tuned gets geared a bit shorter, it could be comparable to the silvercan (also given the 380 weighs about 100g less). The thing is, the 380 Sport-Tuned motor is 2/3 the cost of a Silvercan...

Given a TT-02 already comes with a 380 motor mount, could it be an alternative for a cheap low-performance intro car?

(2/2) 380 Sport Tuned vs 540 TAMIYA Brushed Motor COMPARISON by TT-02B, Li-Po & Ni-Cd, VFS-FR2 - YouTube

If indeed they perform similar, and assuming their efficiency is comparable, then probably they should both consume similar power and run at comparable temperatures.

[alvinlwh]

.

[Kowalski86]

3 hours ago, OoALEJOoO said:

Given a TT-02 already comes with a 380 motor mount, could it be an alternative for a cheap low-performance intro car?

The 380 mount is more or less to keep the cars slow, but with better battery life.

On Tamiyas official youtube, you can find a video of one of their workshops where kids assemble TT-02s (with parents supervision), then compete in a race. Im pretty sure that they ran 380 motors for the race.

[wolfdogstinkus]

On 6/30/2018 at 10:30 AM, Wooders28 said:

Interesting,

Didn't actually know they did modified motors for the 380 size, always ran 540's or converted to 540's.

My daughter's ride on car has a 380, and needs more power, (I was hoping it was a 540 as I've loads of mod motors for those 🙄) one of those could be just the ticket? 

Lol.

Been there, done that

Gears didn't last the day with my eldest on it, but he had great fun.

 

[Wooders28]

1 hour ago, wolfdogstinkus said:

Lol.

Been there, done that

Gears didn't last the day with my eldest on it, but he had great fun.

 

Brilliant!! 

 

 

[wolfdogstinkus]

He was the only one brave enough to ride it. Lol.

[OoALEJOoO]

9 hours ago, Kowalski86 said:

The 380 mount is more or less to keep the cars slow, but with better battery life.

On Tamiyas official youtube, you can find a video of one of their workshops where kids assemble TT-02s (with parents supervision), then compete in a race. Im pretty sure that they ran 380 motors for the race.

Maybe that was using the 380-S Motor (51487) instead of the 380 Super Stock (54393).

I guess the best way to find out is to test . I have a collection of Tamiya brushed motors and have been waiting forever to get my hands on a cheap dyno to do some testing. This might never happen as even used dynos are easily above $500. I'm thinking that perhaps the best way is to hotlap a reference car with all the different motors. I'll have to add the 380-S and 380-ST to the list. Too many projects and not enough time...

[Re-Bugged]

37 minutes ago, OoALEJOoO said:

A few more and you can make a nice advent calendar 😉

[alvinlwh]

.

[OoALEJOoO]

@alvinlwh Thanks for the info. Your results help confirm a similar conclusion to Cageman's video where the 380ST has similar performance than a 540 silvercan.

Now I'm curious on the dual 540 setup you have there. Two 540 motors, one in front and another one on the rear? I would have thought that the top-speed of a dual 540 would have been just slightly lower than a single 540 given the motors would reach the same max rpm, assuming a low-resistance flat straight. I'm a bit puzzled to see it's measurably lower. Did it at least have more acceleration?

[alvinlwh]

.

[SlideWRX]

On 12/20/2023 at 3:48 AM, OoALEJOoO said:

@alvinlwh Thanks for the info. Your results help confirm a similar conclusion to Cageman's video where the 380ST has similar performance than a 540 silvercan.

I suspect the 380 sport can run a lot faster, but it has less torque.  A gearing down might produce better performance actually.

[alvinlwh]

.

[OoALEJOoO]

@alvinlwh Thanks mate, this further confirms the results from Cageman's video that a 380-ST has a bit more speed but a bit less torque than a silvercan.

Looking at the TT-02 manual, the 380 mount using the stock 70T spur allows only 3 pinion choices: 14T (13 FDR), 15T (12.13 FDR, there seems to me a mistake in the manual as it wrongly states 13.13 FDR) and 16T (11.38 FDR). Even 16T perhaps it's still a bit too short, unless it's for a rally car. With the high-speed gear set it could be better, but its cost would defeat the purpose of the 380 cost savings...

[Pylon80]

On 12/19/2023 at 9:48 AM, alvinlwh said:

All on the same gear ratio.

Using the same gear ratio kind of defeats the purpose. That's how people believe that 17.5t motors are slow...

A fair test would involve some sort of marked track, a very consistent driver, a chassis that allows fine gearing optimization and an IR thermometer. Adjust gearing for similar temperature on both motor, fastest one truly wins.

[alvinlwh]

.

[alvinlwh]

.

[OoALEJOoO]

@alvinlwh Thanks a bunch for all the info. I'm now thinking about replacing a 540 Silvercan with a 380 Sport-Tuned on a F104 car, given proper gearing should yield similar results. The benefit will be that now there will be space to fit a heatsink and solve the F104 heating issues I've been experiencing. The F104 with a Silvercan is quicker than my touring cars fitted with Super Stocks so it should work well.