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TurboTimmy

TBLE-02 ESC Turn Limits

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How many turns (brushed) can a TBLE-02 run on? Can it go down to 15 turns? Or is it limited to 27 turns? Thanks for any info.

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They say they can run Sport Tuned, which some people say are 23T and others say they are 27T with some advamced timing. I suspect the latter. The official line is that the ESC can run 25T I think, which is the dirt tuned.

Its out of spec but I've seen one run a Super Stock 23T Tamiya motor in a Novafox without issue.

I doubt it would run the 15T motor without issue

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I have a TBLE-02 in my Blitzer with a Sport tuned motor, no problems as yet. 

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It says in the manual 25 turns or above. 

When I was running my Blitzer chassis I used a Hobbywing Quicrun 1060b, cheap as chips & will handle 12t on NiMH or 2s & can handle 18t on 3s.

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9 hours ago, User4 said:

can handle 18t on 3s

Mine handles 15t on 3s...so far 🙄

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Bear in mind though that turn rating is at best an approximation of a speed controller's capabilities. Number of turns is only one of several factors that affects how much current a motor will draw and by extension how much current the speed controller will have to provide.

If the vehicle is light and the gearing is low, even a low turn motor will not pull a great deal of current so you are probably quite safe exceeding the speed controller's stated turn limit. Likewise, a motor that is under significant load due to tall gearing and/or a heavy vehicle will pull significant current, so might trip the speed controller's overload protection even if it is within spec on paper.

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Thanks for all the info-I am currently running it in a Grasshopper with a Sport Tuned 540. I have been using nimh for a battery and was curious as to how many turns I can get away with while running the TBLE-02. In my next build, I may just go to a HobbyWing QuicRun such as stated by User4. Some of these low-turn motors are grabbing at my curiosity. So does a Grasshopper fit the criteria of a light weight buggy with low gearing?

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1 hour ago, TurboTimmy said:

Thanks for all the info-I am currently running it in a Grasshopper with a Sport Tuned 540. I have been using nimh for a battery and was curious as to how many turns I can get away with while running the TBLE-02. In my next build, I may just go to a HobbyWing QuicRun such as stated by User4. Some of these low-turn motors are grabbing at my curiosity. So does a Grasshopper fit the criteria of a light weight buggy with low gearing?

It would also depend where & how you drive it but I used that very same Hobbywing ESC on my blitzer beetle chassis with a 16t motor & it was fine. I thrashed that thing. 

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10 minutes ago, TurboTimmy said:

So do you think I could run, say, a 20t or a 15t with 7.2v nimh? Just wondering.......

I have my old Hobbywing ESC right here. 

07_16_18_11_52_32_DSC_0040.JPG.1b9cb51024aa7b74ded64bd9806f4415.JPG

If you live in the UK & want it, you can have it. I'll even cover postage (It'll cost me less than a quid to stuff it in a padded envelope and post it). 

Just PM me if you want it. 

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10 hours ago, TurboTimmy said:

So do you think I could run, say, a 20t or a 15t with 7.2v nimh? Just wondering.......

15 turns might be pushing it even in a lightweight Grasshopper, but you might very well get away with 20 turns. Worth a try - it is cheap and easy enough to get a Hobbywing if the tble-02 doesn't hack it.

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Thanks TurnipJF and User4. I think I'm gonna try a 15t Mega in my Baja BugHopper with the New Rain 480 ESC. If it conks out, I'll just get a new Hobbywing.

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32 minutes ago, TurboTimmy said:

Thanks TurnipJF and User4. I think I'm gonna try a 15t Mega in my Baja BugHopper with the New Rain 480 ESC. If it conks out, I'll just get a new Hobbywing.

Well if at any point you decide you want my old one for free just ask & it's yours. It works as good as new.

I actually have a 16t brushed Absima motor you can have too. 

I wouldn't ask for any money because they're just spares I no longer need or use. 

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I've ran a Neewer 13.5T brushless with a Tamiya TBLE-02 in a Arrma Granite 2wd monster truck. The ESC did get very hot and would thermal occasionally, especially on dirt and grass.

I've also tried running a Arrma Mega 15T brushed motor a TBLE-02 and it shut off every few minutes.

 

IMO, I'd wouldn't go lower than a 23T brushed/17.5T brushless. A Tamiya sport tuned would work great with it.

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On 7/14/2018 at 4:05 PM, TurnipJF said:

Bear in mind though that turn rating is at best an approximation of a speed controller's capabilities. Number of turns is only one of several factors that affects how much current a motor will draw and by extension how much current the speed controller will have to provide.

If the vehicle is light and the gearing is low, even a low turn motor will not pull a great deal of current so you are probably quite safe exceeding the speed controller's stated turn limit. Likewise, a motor that is under significant load due to tall gearing and/or a heavy vehicle will pull significant current, so might trip the speed controller's overload protection even if it is within spec on paper.

So the tble 02 might even work with dual stock motors in a clod? as they are geared down pretty low

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4 hours ago, xismxist said:

So the tble 02 might even work with dual stock motors in a clod? as they are geared down pretty low

On paper it shouldn't, but in reality it might. You won't lose anything by trying. The overload protection function will protect the ESC from damage, so the only possible negative outcome is a bit of frustration when your truck stops.

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You can use lipo battery’s with tble-02s if your sensible enough to stop running the moment performance significantly drops, then reset the float voltage to storage level on the same day. 

been doing that for many years, never damaged a lipo yet. Problems come if you just keep running till the car is really limping. Then you can over discharge. 
 

the reason I say this, is jumping from the nimh to a 7.4v lipo is a good 15-20% boost in both power and speed over a 7.2v nimh. If fact a 7.4v lipo is about the same as running a 8.4v nimh performance wise. 
 

Motor limits are an approximation of the expected current draw of a certain motor turns.  
 

In the case of the TBLE-02S the continuous rating is 60A. In the case of the hobbywing 1060, it is also 60A. (The hobbywing 1060 is significantly more capable than the TBLE-02s despite the same current rating).

If the continuous current draw is significantly breached the TBLE-02S will go into thermal overload and switch off. The max current draw of any motor depends a lot on the gearing, the harder the gearing the greater current is required to move the vehicle. Thus if one was to run a easier gearing the motor would run more efficiently and therefore pull less current from the esc. 
 

appropriate gearing will in theory would allow you to run almost any combination of turn motor with almost any esc. However the limitation of gearing options will effect how well you can achieve maximum efficiency of any motor.  
 

in short, a heavy vehicle that’s overgeared will potentially overheat the esc with a silver can. But a light vehicle with easy gearing may well run a low turn motor all day no problem at all. 
 

in short the limitation is in fact the current rating, the turn limit is a relatively arbitrary number, to be used as a guide only. 

Brushless motors are dramatically more energy efficient this is why you can run a much faster brushless motor vs brushed on the same Amp rating.  
 

to finally throw another spanner in the works, the other variable is motor timing, while most budget motors don’t have adjustable timing, many quality motors do offer adjustable timing, generally the more timing you run the greater speed and performance you get, however this is always at the cost of efficiency and it’s generally necessary to alter gearing ratios to manage heat/efficiency when timing increases, it’s not free power after all. So it may be possible to run a 15T brushed but it’s likely to need to be set to 0 timing for max efficiency. Closed can motors generally hav timing built in. The way to tell is if the motor goes faster forward than reverse (at equal voltage, not limited by esc or radio) then it has positive timing, if they go the same speed then the timing is 0. This is important on chassis like WR01 (wild dagger, dual hunter) as it runs 2 motors and one goes backwards. 
 

in short, you can put whatever you like on the TBLE-02S, worst thing will happen it’ll overheat and turn off. Telling you the motor is working too hard for your esc vs your vehicle weight and gearing possibility’s. 

 

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Brushless aren't that much more efficient. Brushed hits about 70% efficiency, brushless is around 85%.

The difference in ability of the ESC to handle brushed versus brushless motor comes down to what happens when the motor is stalled, or nearly stalled. Most brushed ESCs have no idea what the motor is doing so if you ask for full throttle and the motor is stalled, significant current will flow and the ESC might not do anything about it until it overheats or the battery voltage sags too low. The stall current of a 27t silver can brushed motor is about 70Amps, which the ESC will handle for quite some time before eventually overheating.

Theoretically the stall current of a 13.5t brushless motor is about 250Amps. However, since a sensored brushless ESC knows how quickly the motor is turning (if at all) it can reduce the duty cycle of the pulses going to the windings to reduce the current. That's why you sometimes hear buzzing and clunking sounds when a brushless motor is turning against significant resistance, because the ESC is reducing the duty cycle of the pulses to manage the stall current and therefore it's capable of dealing with more powerful brushless motors than brushed.

 

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Two years down the road and my lunchbox is still running its TBLE-02 and a 17t brushed motor. No issues ever with this setup running on nimh or lipo.

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Useful and interesting thread. After reading this, I'll definitely try a 15T motor on my Hornet and see how it goes...

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For posterity, Tamiya recommends using motors over 25t.   

Sport Tuned is included (even though it's 23t--maybe because it's mildly timed?).  

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N70RiGW.jpg

 

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