Bruiser or Egress??

[GTodd]

I need an opinion guys. I have a Rere Bruiser I built as a Mounty, and I have an BS Avante as well among my growing (again) collection of "vintage" Tamiya cars. Both the Bruiser and Egress are available, I can only purchase one and the cost isn't an issue. I get to the track every so often, and I have a big yard to bash my Mounty and other cars/trucks. So which one and why?????

[Jonathon Gillham]

I would say the Egress as you can run that at the track.  You already have a Bruiser and the Avante isn't really a runner (or are they, I don't know much about them but hear they were fragile...)  And I like buggies.

[Saito2]

Egress. It is somewhat different than the Avante Black Special so the build will be a bit different. You'll get to see the evolution in the Avante chassis series. Buying a Bruiser is literally buying the same kit you already have. As far as value goes, the Egress may hold some of its worth (especially after Tamiya inevitably discontinues it). I imagine Bruiser values will plunge with the introduction of the Bruiser-clone. With only nostalgia to tread on, only those dead set on the real-deal or hard-core loyal to Tamiya will go for it. Those just wanting a runner will go for the clone. Since the clone is available as a kit now, you could pick one of those up after the Egress for that matter.

[moffman]

Definitely the egress! The bruiser is basically the same kit as a mountaineer and is a brilliant kit but the egress is just a dream to build and run and has been said before an evolutionary racing upgrade from the avante (which is a fantastic buggy in its self😗 IMO) 

[GTodd]

Done! Just ordered the Egress. Childhood dream soon to be realized and enjoyed with my son!

[Hibernaculum]

On 7/30/2018 at 11:12 AM, Saito2 said:

Egress. It is somewhat different than the Avante Black Special so the build will be a bit different. You'll get to see the evolution in the Avante chassis series. Buying a Bruiser is literally buying the same kit you already have. As far as value goes, the Egress may hold some of its worth (especially after Tamiya inevitably discontinues it). I imagine Bruiser values will plunge with the introduction of the Bruiser-clone. With only nostalgia to tread on, only those dead set on the real-deal or hard-core loyal to Tamiya will go for it.

Had a think about this comment, as I value your thoughts on this Saito.

But this kinda assumes we live in a lawless world - in which Tamiya doesn't mind if Chinese counterfeiters reverse-engineer their products, sell them, and buy yachts.

It's one thing for the Chinese to make and sell these scams like the Bruser clone (or clones of full-size cars - of which there are dozens and dozens) in China where they can get away with it. It's another thing entirely to list and sell them to buyers outside China, on easily accessible US websites. Is it likely the counterfeit Bruiser will remain openly available forever? I highly doubt it, and I'd be very surprised if Tamiya's legal department are not already across it. There's no reason, ultimately, why forged products like the Bruiser might not be treated with the same anti-counterfeit approach as all other products. In Australia, counterfeit goods - if identified - are seized by customs - https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/impo/buyi

You're also underestimating demand from collectors though... e.g. if Tamiya can remake the Bruiser themselves, yet the original Bruiser kit can still be worth double or more of the value of the remake, that shows the allure of the vintage kit over even the remake (both of which are genuine Tamiya products). Let alone the value of genuine over fake.

It doesn't take every person out there to want original/vintage either, for original/vintage to have a higher value. A small collecting community is enough, as well as information online for newcomers to the hobby, is all it takes. A lot of people return to the hobby each year, learn about what's out there. and choose accordingly based on the history of releases.

To back up my point, here's an original Mountaineer that recently sold for about double the price of the retail Bruiser remake. That's just the Mountaineer. A NIB 1985 original Bruiser would always have to be positioned around that price, or higher.

H.

[Saito2]

50 minutes ago, Hibernaculum said:

You're also underestimating demand from collectors though... e.g. if Tamiya themselves can remake the Bruiser themselves, yet the original Bruiser kit can still be worth double or more of the value of the remake, that shows the allure of the vintage kit over even the remake.

 

50 minutes ago, Hibernaculum said:

o back up my point, here's an original Mountaineer that recently sold for about double the price of the retail Bruiser remake. That's just the Mountaineer. A NIB 1985 original Bruiser would always have to be positioned around that price, or higher.

I apologize for not being more specific in my wording. Being a post in the rerelease forum, I meant rerelease values may take a hit form the clone. I believe the smaller hardcore collector's market will always value original and original NIB examples regardless of relreleases or clones.

 

54 minutes ago, Hibernaculum said:

I highly doubt it, and I'd be very surprised if Tamiya's legal department are not already across it

I reserve judgement on this. The clone seems to have gained some traction and continues to sell. Now other versions including a kit are available. I have no knowledge of how long it would take Tamiya legal to put and end to it.

 

56 minutes ago, Hibernaculum said:

Is it likely the counterfeit Bruiser will remain openly available forever?

One thing's for sure, Tamiya spare parts will probably fit the clone and keep existing one's functional. It seems to have been suspiciously copied almost exactly.  To be honest, I'm not happy with Tamiya at present. The MAP pricing debacle has made me seriously take off the rose colored glasses I've worn for so long. Once that happens, you begin to think about all the other things that you turned a blind eye to in the name of customer loyalty. I'll never buy the clone simply based on its Chinese origin, but as far as its existence in general, I could care less. If others want one, go for it, I've got no issue with it. I'll just try to remember Tamiya the way it used to be and be loyal to that memory.   

[Hibernaculum]

That's ok (re: being specific).

I'd have to say, personally, the Tamiya MAP (Minimum Advertised Price - just in case anyone's reading this later and wondering) pricing thing doesn't bother me. Not because I want to pay more, nor can I afford to pay more. But many high-end brands have MAP pricing, or fixed pricing of some sort. In fact if Tamiya hadn't announced that they were starting it this year, I'd have assumed they had already been doing it for many years.

Of course we all love a bargain. But are there examples so far of Tamiya kit RRPs becoming overpriced or unaffordable, since MAP came into effect? Also, does the MAP apply only to USA pricing? I am still seeing wide variations in pricing from different stores in Australia.

 

[GTodd]

Let's not make this thread a clone debate too please. Egress on order! 

Now who has a Jaime Booth kit to sell???!!!!

 

[moffman]

Well done on the ordering! Ya obviously won't be disappointed😉 the problem you have now is are you going to use it for what it was designed for or like me use it with care and then just sit and drool over it😍?

[Saito2]

Sorry for the thread derailment. I felt compelled to respond to that. At any rate, how many of the Jamie Booth kits were made I wonder? I imagine they would be interesting to evaluate their effect on the Egress's driving characteristics. There's an interview with Jamie Booth about the car floating around the net somewhere too.  

[GTodd]

12 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Sorry for the thread derailment. I felt compelled to respond to that. At any rate, how many of the Jamie Booth kits were made I wonder? I imagine they would be interesting to evaluate their effect on the Egress's driving characteristics. There's an interview with Jamie Booth about the car floating around the net somewhere too.  

The Egress shall be ran as intended! I'm ordering at least one each of all the chassis parts and gear boxes. If they brake I'll order more. I have an extra body on order as well so one can get best up and the other can be for drooling. I'm going to run It Brushless. My BS Avante liked the 8.5 Novak, going to try out a Tamiya Brushless.

[GTodd]

Oh yeah, apparently a form member made (17) JB Egress chassis conversions. I'm not sure any got to see any dirt.

[CoolHands]

Where did you buy the egress from?

[GTodd]

I ordered it from RCMart, best price by a wide margin.