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saju_nyc

Orignal Fox

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Hi All! First timer here. I have dug up my tamiya fox from 1988. Still all original parts except for the motor I upgraded back then to a kyosho lemans 240st brushed. I am pretty clueless but want take it all apart and put it back together with some upgrades with my son. a few questions:

1. what wheel and tire options are there. I see there are alloy ones floating around 

2.esc options for the fox, do I need to extend the wires to reach the rear motor

3. I have a cracked rear arm and see people with really cool alloy replacements, what are my options

4.motor upgrade options without killing the gears

5. can someone explain this whole thorpe thing to me

6.any other info would be great.

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1.  You would need a 12mm hex.  They are usually $2 for 4.  Then any wheel that takes 12mm hex could fit the rear side.  To keep the gear ratio (and not burn out the motor), I would be careful not to go too big.  

These won't work for the front.  You can find front specific wheels.  Or use front hex adapter with bearings inside like below.   

NXEtTSy.jpg

2.  Hobbywing Quicrun 1060 ESC is a good option.  

3.  I have not seen Fox rear arms in alloy.  But I'm wondering if Hotshot, Bigwig arms are similar.  I'll check on that. 

4.  Fox gears are hard to kill.  Lemans 240st is 22 turn?  I should think that's good.  But if you want more speed, you could use a 19 turn.  Quicrun 1060 can support up to 60Amp, so 19t is not a problem.  Just that the vintage chassis is a bit limited in its performance.  Hotter motor isn't necessarily good.  27 turn stock motor with 25 degrees of advanced timing is fast enough for my vintage Fox.  

5.  Thorp was a company that used to build optional parts?  Any specific parts in mind? 

6.  Welcome to Tamiya Club.  Members are always happy to answer your questions, so just ask.  

 

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Fox rear arms & fox is stand alone model . Fox only parts , The fox has been releasted AS Nova Fox . So those parts fit .

Don't use Alloy parts on OLD RC'S . As the old rc plastic WILL brake . You are better off getting a Nova Fox and build that for 

your son . As it has newer plastic & will hold up better than the 30 + old rc < that will be pron to break . 

The New re re's ( as we call them ) have slight changes . The biggest is diff's . The old vintage one's use C-Clips to

hold the out drives on . The re re's use a E-Clip to hold the out drives on . As that has the space for the E-Clip ( as it's

thicker and allowed for gear spacing etc ) ""YOU MUST USE E-CLIPS IN RE RE DIFF'S ""

Vintage diff's you must use the old C-Clip's  ( C < they look like this )  Buggger to get off also :LOL: . 

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I agree with what matman said. 

The weakest link is what breaks.  If your arms are stronger than the chassis mount, the chassis mount would break.  That's harder to replace.  I've replaced a few arms, but I have never bought alloy arms.  My vintage Hotshot and Fox has cracks on holes where the metal pin goes in, they work fine.  I still replaced them, but they would have worked for a long time even with the cracks.  I get most of my parts from ebay.  

But there is the "bling factor."  If you want something shiny (despite alloy arms making other parts weak in comparison), that's another matter.  Personally, I like the orange color.  If there were orange anodized stuff, I would get them.  Just because I like the color.  RC is about having fun.  We would let you know stuff.  You do what works for you.  

 

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On 9/7/2018 at 6:04 PM, saju_nyc said:

1. what wheel and tire options are there. I see there are alloy ones floating around 

You mean these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ALLOY-WHEEL-FOR-TAMIYA-FOX-WILD-ONE-SUPER-HORNET-GRASSHOPPER-II-/132166411855?

 

3. I have a cracked rear arm and see people with really cool alloy replacements, what are my options: replace them by Novafox items which can be easily ordered from ebay or Tamico.

 

 

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On 9/8/2018 at 12:36 AM, matman said:

The New re re's ( as we call them ) have slight changes . The biggest is diff's . The old vintage one's use C-Clips to

hold the out drives on . The re re's use a E-Clip to hold the out drives on . As that has the space for the E-Clip ( as it's

thicker and allowed for gear spacing etc ) ""YOU MUST USE E-CLIPS IN RE RE DIFF'S ""

Vintage diff's you must use the old C-Clip's  ( C < they look like this )  Buggger to get off also :LOL: . 

Just to clarify this, it's the gearbox casing that's different. If you're using a re re NovaFox gearbox casing then you must use the E clips. If you're using an original vintage Fox gearbox casing then you must use the old C clips (which are indeed rather awkward to get off, and even harder to get off without firing them across the room never to be seen again!!).

It doesn't matter whether you use original or re re gears, and it doesn't matter if you use original hex driveshafts or re re dogbone driveshafts - they're all interchangeable.

You just have to use the right clips to go with the gearbox casing you're using.

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On 9/7/2018 at 5:22 PM, Juggular said:

1.  You would need a 12mm hex.  They are usually $2 for 4.  Then any wheel that takes 12mm hex could fit the rear side.  To keep the gear ratio (and not burn out the motor), I would be careful not to go too big.  

These won't work for the front.  You can find front specific wheels.  Or use front hex adapter with bearings inside like below.   

NXEtTSy.jpg

2.  Hobbywing Quicrun 1060 ESC is a good option.  

3.  I have not seen Fox rear arms in alloy.  But I'm wondering if Hotshot, Bigwig arms are similar.  I'll check on that. 

4.  Fox gears are hard to kill.  Lemans 240st is 22 turn?  I should think that's good.  But if you want more speed, you could use a 19 turn.  Quicrun 1060 can support up to 60Amp, so 19t is not a problem.  Just that the vintage chassis is a bit limited in its performance.  Hotter motor isn't necessarily good.  27 turn stock motor with 25 degrees of advanced timing is fast enough for my vintage Fox.  

5.  Thorp was a company that used to build optional parts?  Any specific parts in mind? 

6.  Welcome to Tamiya Club.  Members are always happy to answer your questions, so just ask.  

 

Awesome thanks for the info!

240st is a 24 RPM, 22turn, 18T pinion....nothing too fancy but had more of a kick than the original 540 can and it still works!

So now to some questions that show that I am clueless.......I understand where the rear 12mm hex goes on the drive shaft but not sure where the front hex adaptor with the bearing would go. On the front rims or the front drive shaft? what size wheels and tires do you suggest? I was going to just order the original from tamiya and stick with that.

Also in regards the the esc.......I like the price point of the quicrun ESC but my and please correct me if I am wrong but with the ESC I would get rid of the MSC and speed control servo? What about the white resistors? And does it have a BEC capability?

I took apart the gear box and everything looked fine....I just thought thorpe would have something better but I think I might just stay with what I have for now in terms of gearing.

Thanks again

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On 9/7/2018 at 7:36 PM, matman said:

Fox rear arms & fox is stand alone model . Fox only parts , The fox has been releasted AS Nova Fox . So those parts fit .

Don't use Alloy parts on OLD RC'S . As the old rc plastic WILL brake . You are better off getting a Nova Fox and build that for 

your son . As it has newer plastic & will hold up better than the 30 + old rc < that will be pron to break . 

The New re re's ( as we call them ) have slight changes . The biggest is diff's . The old vintage one's use C-Clips to

hold the out drives on . The re re's use a E-Clip to hold the out drives on . As that has the space for the E-Clip ( as it's

thicker and allowed for gear spacing etc ) ""YOU MUST USE E-CLIPS IN RE RE DIFF'S ""

Vintage diff's you must use the old C-Clip's  ( C < they look like this )  Buggger to get off also :LOL: . 

Good tip on the alloy parts...they looked cool but I think the tamiya replacements may be a good option for now.As for my son I went with a traxxas slash and he loves it! I will drive the old man fox, lol

Thanks for your help!

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11 hours ago, AJB123 said:

Just to clarify this, it's the gearbox casing that's different. If you're using a re re NovaFox gearbox casing then you must use the E clips. If you're using an original vintage Fox gearbox casing then you must use the old C clips (which are indeed rather awkward to get off, and even harder to get off without firing them across the room never to be seen again!!).

It doesn't matter whether you use original or re re gears, and it doesn't matter if you use original hex driveshafts or re re dogbone driveshafts - they're all interchangeable.

You just have to use the right clips to go with the gearbox casing you're using.

Yep , Spot on .  As with 4WD Boomerang , hotshot , supershot , bigwig , super sabre , hotshot 2 , Gear box's do the same 

With E-Clip & C-Clip etc as well . 

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The front hex adapters are rather special parts.  You don't need them unless you intend to use wheels made for the rear for the front.  If you use Fox front wheels, you can't use them.  

About the ESC, it simply replaces MSC.  (I kept the original MSCs and the white resistors somewhere--just in case I want to return my vintage kits the way they were in the 80's)  Anyway, ESC replaces them all.  You don't need resistors.  Every ESC has BEC.  (The ESC wire that's connected to the receiver also gives the electricity back to the receiver. And in turn, the receiver gives it to the steering servo) 

Here are diagrams from Traxxas, Hobbywing and Tamiya.  They work pretty much the same way.  You can connect the receiver, motor, and the battery.  Then lift the car off the ground just in case. Pull the throttle all the way forward and backward. The parameter is set.  That's it.  The second time you move the throttle, the car should move.  

H8La0DZ.jpg

 

Yc7Dm4i.jpg

sf5aKIl.jpg

 

 

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One more question Juggular....if I go with the rear 12mm hex will I still be able to use the original rims? I see that the original plastic hub has 4 little points on it that settle into the rear rim. I see that the metal ones do not have those little nubs. would it be an issue??

 

Thanks.....The Fox is getting resurrected!!!

 

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No, the original rims do use those little pegs.  

As far as I know, Fox is rather unique in that it has its own wheel adapter.  I suppose that brings you right back where you started.  I guess the tires are hard and worn?  When I go home, I'll see if the 3rd party tires I use fit my Fox.  

The Bigwig uses the same rear tires as the Fox.  And I have these on, so I think these rear tires should fit.  

SNHnE2Q.jpg

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1 hour ago, Juggular said:

No, the original rims do use those little pegs.  

As far as I know, Fox is rather unique in that it has its own wheel adapter.  I suppose that brings you right back where you started.  I guess the tires are hard and worn?  When I go home, I'll see if the 3rd party tires I use fit my Fox.  

The Bigwig uses the same rear tires as the Fox.  And I have these on, so I think these rear tires should fit.  

SNHnE2Q.jpg

The falcon uses the same rear wheel adaptor!

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Now, this is baffling.  

They are about the same size.  But these tires that fit the Bigwig, won't fit the Fox.  (I'm scratching my head on this one)

abWiJ1t.jpg

XXi01kI.jpg

[Just in case you miss the sticker I put on....]

UhiATrS.jpg

[ yep...you get 16 stickers from a box like this.  Those things are delicious... too bad I'm not eating sugary things anymore...]

yAQxy34.jpg

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Awesome stickers! Funny about the tires. Nice looking fox!

So I finally just ordered  the original stock wheels from tamiya. Which I can’t stand the gold plated look - maybe I’ll paint it. 

The tires are out of stock so I’ll probably wait for it as I am having a hard time finding right size tires elsewhere. 

I ordered the quicrun esc you mentioned, thanks!

what weight shock oil do you recommend?

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I'm just finishing up my vintage Frog rebuild.  I've replaced 95% of the original pieces with Re-Re parts or Mods (vintage and new)...

My recommendation to everyone that is thinking about rebuilding/refurbishing their old car is this:  DON'T DO IT.

Keep your OG vehicle as close to original as you can to get it running again.  Just clean it up, re-lube it and then stick it on a shelf.  Get a Re-Re (if they make one) and play with that.

In the end, I spent more money fixing my Frog than I would have if I had just bought a Re-Re.  And for all practical purposes, all I've done is spend a lot of money to convert my OG to a Re-Re...

Terry

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Frog Jumper said:

I'm just finishing up my vintage Frog rebuild.  I've replaced 95% of the original pieces with Re-Re parts or Mods (vintage and new)...

My recommendation to everyone that is thinking about rebuilding/refurbishing their old car is this:  DON'T DO IT.

Keep your OG vehicle as close to original as you can to get it running again.  Just clean it up, re-lube it and then stick it on a shelf.  Get a Re-Re (if they make one) and play with that.

In the end, I spent more money fixing my Frog than I would have if I had just bought a Re-Re.  And for all practical purposes, all I've done is spend a lot of money to convert my OG to a Re-Re...

Terry

 

 

Or race your vintage car with love and precaution. treat them like these rare oldtimer cars and planes.

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Ha! Yes I am starting to realize that. What’s nice is I show my son what I am doing and it’s more of a project we do together. 😀

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6 hours ago, saju_nyc said:

what weight shock oil do you recommend?

That depends on the pistons you use.  I don't even worry about the weights.  I do the drop test.  Lift the front (or rear) off the ground like 4 inches, and drop it.  If it bounces by the flexibility of the tires, the shocks are too stiff. They are not allowing the springs to the work.  If it oscillates as if you've jumped onto a bed with springs inside, then it's too soft.  The rear end should squat down as it gets dropped, then up.  Once. 

Check out this video.  I would have them tiny bit softer myself, but that's my personal preference.  

 

1 hour ago, Frog Jumper said:

......

My recommendation to everyone that is thinking about rebuilding/refurbishing their old car is this:  DON'T DO IT.

......

In the end, I spent more money fixing my Frog than I would have if I had just bought a Re-Re.  And for all practical purposes, all I've done is spend a lot of money to convert my OG to a Re-Re...

Terry

lol, I'm in the same hole(s), Frog Jumper.  I am generally happy about it, though. 

I got a used Boomerang.  I could have ran it the way it was.  But I wanted Tamiya tires.  No body either.  So I ordered them, and while I was at it, I ordered new set of gears, new arms, drive cups, chassis cover, etc. etc.  In all, it came to be about a few dollars over $200.  That's the price of a new Boomerang. 

And I got a used Frog also.  All the suspension parts hardly move.  It's like it has grime-friction shocks.  (hey, if it works...)  I bought most of the plastic parts.  I'll just use metal parts from the old one.  Including the hex... er... octagonal dog bones.  

For some reason though, I like the fact that they are seasoned buggies that got beat up by actually running on dirt.  I feel like making seasoned boxers young again.  (Not that I ever watched boxing...)  

 

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