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borderlord

Dt03 shock oil?

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That always depends on the holes in your piston and how soft/stiff you want. 

Even experienced guys basically try this and that to see what works, every time.  If you are asking because you need to buy a set, I would start with Tamiya "soft" set.  In my opinion, Tamiya instructions give you a hard setting.  The goal is to keep the tires in contact with the ground, but Tamiya often makes your tires bounce off the surface. (instead of shocks actually absorbing the shocks...)

I use 400 or 300 the most.  If you find them too soft, you might get a "medium" set.  I have a hard set too, but they are still new after 15 years.  I use it only when I have a shock that has big holes in the piston, and I cannot find other pistons. 

Here is a set of soft oil.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tamiya-200-300-400-CST-Silicone-Damper-Oil-Soft-Set-EP-1-10-RC-Cars-Drift-53443/131681509433?epid=2256103776&hash=item1ea8d46039:g:K60AAOSwhkRWd6dd

[below is how to set up the suspension]

 

[It could be that the video is not showing the movement, but below looks like an extremely stiff set up.  If the springs don't move, you don't need shocks. (or suspensions for that matter) ]

 

[Below shows shocks set soft, you can see that the wheels just soak up the ground under it. The choice is yours, but I went with below set up.] 

 

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Hi Juggular, thanks.

I was thinking to use the same as Tamiya supply in the kit, but I do notice the wheels tend to bounce, so I think the soft set up might be better.

Having said that, I race on astro rather than sand, but I think the same still applies.

Got some 350cst coming for another project, so  looks like I'm sorted.

Same question, do you use the same front and rear?

Jeff

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Yup, same front and rear. I use the harder silver DF-03 springs on the rear though as my hardcase lipo is heavier than a 7.2v nimh. All my shocks have the solid plunger in them as per kit. 

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If you thought, "but the front is lighter...," you have the right idea.  (it took me years to figure that out) 

I would do what Grotty did and use harder springs at the rear.  Often, the best solution is the simplest one.  

Or you could use harder oil (or pistons with smaller holes) in the back.  The results are not the same, but similar.  Stiffer springs would keep the wheels down to fight the extra weight in the back.  That's better for tail-heavy cars.  Harder oil just makes the suspension move slower.  

I only have a DT02, but generally, I make front softer for 2WD cars.  DN01 Zahhak is light in front, so I made the front softer by using pistons with bigger holes.  

The Hornet has o-ring-dampers.  They work perfectly for a feather-weight nose.  I think this is a simple and elegant solution.  The Hornet's front simply isn't heavy enough for oil shocks.  I even cut off about 4mm of springs as @shenlonco suggested.  The extra few mm taken up by the o-ring housing made the front too stiff.  

The front of DT-03 is light also.  If you try 200 weight and 300 in the rear, that's up to you. (or use bigger holes in the front)  I have one car with only a couple drops of oil at the front (just to lubricate).  If you cannot make the shock any softer, "air-damper" is one way to go.  It works just like the Hornet damper (but with 2 o-rings each). 

Just test out this and that combination and see how you like it.  There is no rule that says you have to follow the Tamiya's instruction (or any of my suggestions for that matter).  Experimenting is part of the fun.  

5D3LRDs.jpg

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If you have stiff springs at the rear that's a great start with that car. Damping oil tunes the handling. Thicker rear/thinner front gives quicker turn in, and vice versa. Have a think about how your car moves at the moment and get the oil that might help improve it.

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Hi Guys

Thanks for all your help.

Have to say the original intention was only to give the dampers a good clean and some fresh oil, but the idea of stiffer springs on the back does appeal, while I have them apart.
So, here's the question.
Google search revealed a set of hop-up springs, part number 53832, and that identifies the soft ones as red, and the hard ones as blue.
When I built the model originally, I used the supplied springs which are silver, so I don't know whether they are hard, soft or something in between.
Any ideas how I would tell?
Also, the set includes springs for the front as well.
Replacing the rears with hard is the way to go, but is there any mileage in replacing the fronts as well, with the soft ones.

Jeff

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Kits fronts are very soft and just fine in my experience. I got the DF03 setting spring set 53937. Don't know how it compared to the DT03 setting springs but I believe they are stiffer. I use the gold middle DF03 springs on the rear of mine with Lipo, but with heavier 8.4v nimh I have used the hard silver in the past. Whatever you get much stiffer springs than the kit rears will make a big difference.

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Hi Cy, thanks

I'm using LiPo on mine, but only a shorty pack pushed right up the front of the battery bay, the idea being to shift the balance a little forward.
On that basis, I'll try the gold springs first and see what happens. I also have a selection of plastic pre-load rings of varying thickneses so I can mix and match at the track.

We'll see

Jeff

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30 minutes ago, borderlord said:

Hi Cy, thanks

I'm using LiPo on mine, but only a shorty pack pushed right up the front of the battery bay, the idea being to shift the balance a little forward.
On that basis, I'll try the gold springs first and see what happens. I also have a selection of plastic pre-load rings of varying thickneses so I can mix and match at the track.

We'll see

Jeff

Nice set up with the battery! Mine is quite a big pack so whilst it's lighter than my 8.4 it's still full length. Gold should do it, you might even be able to run the black soft ones. I run 400cst rear 500 front in mine. At the risk of advertising my own wares, I designed some rear uprights for my DT03 with 3 deg toe in and adjustment options for the camber link. Made the rear suspension work better. It's on shapeways under CTE RC if you are interested. 

 

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Hi Cy

This is the pack I use:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-ultimate-2600mah-2s2p-90c-hardcase-lipo-super-shorty-pack-roar-approved.html It weighs 131g.
Had to be a bit inventive with the mounting to make sure it stayed in place, but that's all working well now.
As a relative novice at this sport I have cut down the throttle atv on my tx, so I can at least get round the track without hitting anything.
Given this, even this small capacity pack will give me two 20 min runs while staying within the 80% LiPo comfort zone.

Had a quick look at those uprights you are selling. that's a very impressive piece of work, congratulations.
Although with my beginner status, I'm not sure they'll make me a race winner, but I am still considering a set while I have the back end apart.
To that end, couple of questions.
Not sure where you're located, but would you be willing to ship a pair to United Kingdom?
Also, would I have to switch to metal dog-bones?
If you could let me know, sure we can do some business.

Many thanks

Jeff

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Good on you getting involved and running at the track. I am too chicken to race but I love running at the track when I get a chance. 

For the uprights you do need the metal driveshafts but these really free up the rear suspension and aren't massively expensive. Yeah Racing do universals for under a tenner if you look on eBay but the tamiya dogbones are great too. You also need the turnbuckle camber links not the stock top wishbones. You can order them directly from shapeways to you. They make them to order. I used my DT03 to learn about tuning the handling of the car. 

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Hi again.

Further question.

Looking at the pictures of your uprights, seems they also use turnbuckles rather than the plastic upper wishbones. Would they be

necessary, or just an option?

Jeff

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25 minutes ago, borderlord said:

Hi again.

Further question.

Looking at the pictures of your uprights, seems they also use turnbuckles rather than the plastic upper wishbones. Would they be

necessary, or just an option?

Jeff

Necessary. They don't work without the turnbuckles. 

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Hi Cy

Not sure whether I'm being dumb or not, but I looked on both your rear upright thread and on the Shapeways site, and all I can see are the RH ones.

How do I go about getting a pair?

The links you give on the first post of the uprights thread both go to RH ones.

Checked out, and I can get metal dog-bones and turnbuckle kits over here, so everything depends on the cost of getting the uprights shipped.

Can you help?

Jeff

 

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Corrected the original thread too. Thanks for pointing that out. I run my rear suspension with the ball screw in the middle hole with a 3mm spacer from the damper pistons sprue under it if you want to give that a try. 

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Hi Cy

So, the die is cast. just ordered the uprights.

My only thought is 'how did that happen'?

Started off as a simple shock rebuild, and somehow morphed into a complete rear end rebuild. Still, should be good.

Just a couple of questions left.

I will obviously be fitting the rear turnbuckles, but I don't want to alter the camber just yet, so can I get the length of the turnbuckles to give me standard camber?

Also, i have a number of the plastic rings to alter the spring pre-load. Did you use any of those in your set up, and if so, which ones?

Thanks

Jeff

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8 hours ago, borderlord said:

Also, i have a number of the plastic rings to alter the spring pre-load. Did you use any of those in your set up, and if so, which ones?

Use only enough to give your buggy the ride height it needs. Remember that most springs are linear (same force required to compress them even if they are already half compressed) so if you find you are using more than two of thicker ones go up a spring weight (harder) to support the car. Think of it as the springs hold the car up and the oils control (damp) the excess bounce on the extension. Your buggy should also ever so slightly compress the suspension (sag) when fully loaded to allow for the wheels to better follow the terrain it's on. 

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9 hours ago, borderlord said:

Hi Cy

So, the die is cast. just ordered the uprights.

My only thought is 'how did that happen'?

Started off as a simple shock rebuild, and somehow morphed into a complete rear end rebuild. Still, should be good.

Just a couple of questions left.

I will obviously be fitting the rear turnbuckles, but I don't want to alter the camber just yet, so can I get the length of the turnbuckles to give me standard camber?

Also, i have a number of the plastic rings to alter the spring pre-load. Did you use any of those in your set up, and if so, which ones?

Thanks

Jeff

It does get like that sometimes. Sorry for the encouragement, but its all good fun. I still run the top wishbones on the front of mine as they give some camber but are stiffer than the turnbuckles. If you have ordered the full set then use the medium 38mm turnbuckles (the longest ones are for your steering arms to help adjust toe out at the front) usually used on the front end for the rear. The middle position on the new uprights is longer than the kit rear link. I'll have a measure of mine later, but best thing I can suggest is to put your car on a flat table and use your phone to measure the camber. It's no setup gauge but it's not bad. I have a free app called Bubble Level I use. Zero it with the phone flat short edge on the table held against the wheel, then tip it in until you have the long side touching the wheel. Make sure you have battery on board when you do this and drop it from a few cm to make sure the car is properly settled. Aim for springing to get the rear arms about parallel with the floor when ready to run and 3 degrees of negative camber on each wheel to start with. 

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This is my DT03

2018-09-24_08-59-34

Ignore the shiny blue bits. I just used bling bits because I had them in the spares box. Just measured the exposed tutnbuckle and if you aim for 31mm you won't be far off.

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Hi Cy

Uprights came in a couple of days ago, very nice job of work.
Been mulling over the best way to attach the balls.
What I have done is to thread out the holes in the uprights and then cut a couple of lengths of studding (threaded rod) 17mm long. These can be screwed into the upright their full length and leave 9mm protruding. This is enough to use the 3mm spacers and allow the Tamiya balls to screw on top.
The studding is held into the upright with a smear of cyano, and the balls will be attached with Loctite, so they can't unscrew themselves.
That's about as strong as I can make it, so hope it won't give me any problems.

Time will tell

Jeff

DSCN0001#1.JPG

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