550 motor on 3S?

[Juggular 4964]

Doesn't it have greater torque? 

The original Bruiser's 550 probably wasn't good on 6V.  

Quicrun 1060 is 3S compatible....  So... 550 might be useful for crawlers and monster trucks.  Maybe a 550 motor can give you the control of a 35t or 45t motor at lower speed with plenty of torque to spare.  It can also give you the same high speed as the Tamiya black motor (or even faster)?  

Anybody tried 550 on 3S?

 

[MadInventor 3884]

I had 2 550s in a clod buster I ran on 14.4V. My experience of them is that they basically give the same performance as a silver can running on the same voltage, but don't get so hot when you run them on higher volts as they have an inbuilt fan.

PS, The original bruiser motor was a 750, not  a 550

 

[Juggular 4964]

Ah, I thought I was onto something... apparently not.  

I looked up the 750 motor.  RC4WD sells them.  But 12,000rpm?  That's too low.  And the shaft is 5mm, regular pinions won't fit.  So I guess my brilliant idea turned out to be quite dull and lackluster.  A cheap brushless system would be better...  

Thanks for the info, though, MadInventor!  

 

[MadInventor 3884]

No Worries. 5mm shaft is not the end of the world, as some 1/8 brushless systems use a 5mm shaft, so 0.8 and 1.0 module pinions are available with a 5mm shaft hole. I used a pinion with a 5mm dia hole in my TXT-1 on a 1/8 brushless motor.

[nowinaminute 2815]

It depends so much on the spec of the motor and the gearing etc.

550 motors are slower all else being equal. Because they are physically larger, a 27t 550 motor will have more wire inside than a 27t 540 so it will have comparatively more resistance.

They tend to have more torque because they are physically larger so if you had a 550 that was wound to match a 540 for RPM it would have better torque too. I use cheap FTX 550 15T motors a lot and they seem to perform about the same as a 23T 540 on 2s but have better torque and can cope with heavier vehicles. 

Running on 3s though is dependant on many factors like the individual motor specs and the strain it is put under in a particular vehicle due to weight and gearing. All else being equal though a 550 should handle 3s better than a 540 but on the other hand, a Traxxas 12T 550 will burn up on 3s but a 45T crawler 540 will not. And the Traxxas E-Maxx used to run on 21T 550 motors that could handle 14.4v but a 21T 550 is more like a 35T 540 and it ran two in parallel so each motor didn't see all that much strain.


 

[Aleblanc 57]

for what its worth, I run some Traxxas 21T 550 cans on 3s with HW1080 esc's in both mu Axial RR10 Bomber and also Yeti. Lots of get up and go but also very good low speed control and torque.

[IoWBasher 170]

The motors in brushed FTX cars are 550's and quite torquey with good speed on 2S, I've not tried 3S but have read people have without issue.

I ran one in a Maverick Scout Scaler, and it was very good.

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/index.php?product_id=369466&gclid=CjwKCAjworfdBRA7EiwAKX9HeK9VPRUrz4_pzlsdcr7Zi_SWXEycPw8XgV-hcyVMlJW-mcr_7pNRGRoC_joQAvD_BwE

 

[novicelad 787]

My son has an ftx carnage which has a 550 motor, we run that on 3s and its a marked improvement!

Its doesn't even get a bit hot so all good

[nowinaminute 2815]

6 minutes ago, novicelad said:

My son has an ftx carnage which has a 550 motor, we run that on 3s and its a marked improvement!

Its doesn't even get a bit hot so all good

I have quite a few of those motors, my nearest model shop sells them for about £7 so I often grab one when I'm visiting. Gutsy motors for the price and definitely run cooler than a 540 of comparable speed. 

I ran one on 3s in my Tamiya heavy drump truck for a while before going over to a cheap brushless. It got a bit hot in that but no hotter than the stock 27T 540. I guess the gearing is a big factor just like with any motor. I used to use it on steep gradients a lot too which obviously would have meant it was pulling more amps and getting hotter because of that.

I like them a lot for the price, good upgrade from a silver can even just on 2s IMO. Faster, more torque and runs cooler.

[novicelad 787]

Took the FTX Carnage out for a bash today on 3s and it died, motor completely fried so I take back my recommendation 

[nowinaminute 2815]

2 hours ago, novicelad said:

Took the FTX Carnage out for a bash today on 3s and it died, motor completely fried so I take back my recommendation 

I've only run one on 3s in my Dump Truck but it's lighter than the Carnage. In my experience, most relatively fast brushed motors don't get on well with 3s. A physically larger motor gives you some extra headroom but it's not necessarily enough to cover 50% more voltage.

I've seen a lot of silver cans burn out on 3s except for when they are in clods but then the gearing is lower which means less heat.

You'll generally find that higher voltage setups use a slower motor in the first place. A lot of 8th scale trucks that run 6s or 8s are only 1000-1200KV plus they are physically much larger  with active cooling so they run a lot cooler. If those trucks ran low turn motors instead they would draw ridiculous current and be less efficient. It's usually more efficent to get a certain amount of power with voltage than amps but if you take a motor that's optimised for low voltage and high amps and up the voltage it's going to sort of have the worst of both worlds.

A lot of it depends on the gearing and vehicle weight and driving conditions too. Something that might be fine going around a car park might burn out in minutes going over grass and up hills etc.

This is why I'm such a brushless convert these days, they run so much cooler that you can often go to 3s and still be cooler than a comparable brushed motor on 2s and when I use a circa 3000kv brushless on 2s I know it will handle pretty much anything I throw at it without getting too hot.

 

[novicelad 787]

21 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

I've only run one on 3s in my Dump Truck but it's lighter than the Carnage. In my experience, most relatively fast brushed motors don't get on well with 3s. A physically larger motor gives you some extra headroom but it's not necessarily enough to cover 50% more voltage.

I've seen a lot of silver cans burn out on 3s except for when they are in clods but then the gearing is lower which means less heat.

You'll generally find that higher voltage setups use a slower motor in the first place. A lot of 8th scale trucks that run 6s or 8s are only 1000-1200KV plus they are physically much larger  with active cooling so they run a lot cooler. If those trucks ran low turn motors instead they would draw ridiculous current and be less efficient. It's usually more efficent to get a certain amount of power with voltage than amps but if you take a motor that's optimised for low voltage and high amps and up the voltage it's going to sort of have the worst of both worlds.

A lot of it depends on the gearing and vehicle weight and driving conditions too. Something that might be fine going around a car park might burn out in minutes going over grass and up hills etc.

This is why I'm such a brushless convert these days, they run so much cooler that you can often go to 3s and still be cooler than a comparable brushed motor on 2s and when I use a circa 3000kv brushless on 2s I know it will handle pretty much anything I throw at it without getting too hot.

 

Looking at a GOOLRC combo for him I hes hat the FTX for a year now and its been through 3 motors the last one was my fault but could have brought a new combo by now 

[nowinaminute 2815]

39 minutes ago, novicelad said:

Looking at a GOOLRC combo for him I hes hat the FTX for a year now and its been through 3 motors the last one was my fault but could have brought a new combo by now 

And that motor will probably outlast all 3 brushed ones. I think they are decent motors for the price but they aren't infallible and they are worked quite hard in the Carnage.

All the rules about temps that apply to brushed also apply to brushless but they are so much more efficent that they have much much better headroom. When you factor in the lack of brushes and comm wear etc they make a really good argument for themselves, especially when you consider the FTX motor isn't even serviceable just like the Traxxas 550s. 

I still grab the FTX one often when I'm in the model shop, they are pretty gutsy and better value to me than many similar brushed 540 motors, I see them as a quick and easy drop in replacement for anything running an old silver can but there's no getting around how much better brushless is, the extra heat margin and overall reliability just makes me feel a lot more carefree ploughing through grass or on soft sand etc without burning out.