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So a guy on facebook posted that a lipo nearly killed him and he would be sticking to nitro...

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I'm not sure if anyone here is a member of the group he posted in but there followed dozens of comments about how lethal lipos are and a danger to your family etc.

Turns out the guy FELL ASLEEP whilst leaving the battery on charge with the battery still INSIDE his vehicle which was sat on his desk!

But after looking at the photos a little more I realised the best part.

He used a "wall wart" NIMH charger to charge a 2s lipo..............

So the guy fell asleep leaving a lipo plugged into an incompatible charger with no cut off which just carried on charging the battery indefinitely.

There must have been 200 comments perpetuating the idea that lipo is the antichrist and all based of off a massive misuse of the battery and a chronic case of negligence.

It just goes to show that a few silly people can sway the general consensus.

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Yeah I've often wondered what the big deal about lipos is, as long as you take the safety precautions (lipo bag, don't leave it alone, storage charge etc).  I see people at my offroad club charging them without bags, leaving them in their cars etc as well.  The club doesn't say anything but then it is outdoors so not much will get damaged, other than their own gear and maybe them, and in New Zealand we have this amazing thing called ACC pays for all medical costs for an injury and even lost income while you can't work, so really, there is no downside!

This thread is similar, although he was using the right charger at least, just none of the other stuff and it was in a hot car.

https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-off-road/1022087-yup-happened.html

Always good to be cautious though and the odd explosion is good to remind everyone right?

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Maybe NZ ACC should have a "Darwin Award candidate exception." 

Ones without care, will select himself out of the gene pool.  Darwin will thank him for raising the average IQ of the human race...  A pull-start engine isn't always safe, as this ballsy guy is about to demonstrate. (soon to be a couple less ballsy...)  

 8ktYc8m.jpg

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But unless the clutch has broken on that chainsaw the chain won't rotate until the safety device has been disengaged and the engine revs up to a high enough speed.

 

People really need to understand how chainsaws work. It's a stupid picture and it really annoys me when it's posted.

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Are you suggesting that's a sensible way to start a chainsaw?

 

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2 hours ago, djmcnz said:

Are you suggesting that's a sensible way to start a chainsaw?

 

It's not the way I'd do it...

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You know, I heard Lipos were secretly behind the Kennedy assassination, The Hindenburg disaster and the disappearance of Amelia Earhart.

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7 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

You know, I heard Lipos were secretly behind the Kennedy assassination, The Hindenburg disaster and the disappearance of Amelia Earhart.

I heard that Lipos are the only thing Chuck Norris is afraid of.

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3 hours ago, djmcnz said:

Are you suggesting that's a sensible way to start a chainsaw?

 

Yes. Provided you know it's safe to do so. I wouldn't pick up an unknown chainsaw and try to start it that way.

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I have charged lipo batteries as many times as nimh by now.  I have had exactly zero lipos become possessed and try to end my existence.  I have had one nimh melt into carpet,  because...  surprise surprise,  I had left it unattended.  I don’t even charge lipos in a bag.  Either out in the garage on the cement,  or in my basement in a stainless steel sink surrounded by a non-flammable counter.

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3 hours ago, TwistedxSlayer said:

Yes. Provided you know it's safe to do so. I wouldn't pick up an unknown chainsaw and try to start it that way.

How do you know it's safe before you start it?

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24 minutes ago, kwkenuf said:

I have charged lipo batteries as many times as nimh by now.  I have had exactly zero lipos become possessed and try to end my existence.  I have had one nimh melt into carpet,  because...  surprise surprise,  I had left it unattended.  I don’t even charge lipos in a bag.  Either out in the garage on the cement,  or in my basement in a stainless steel sink surrounded by a non-flammable counter.

Y'know, I have real trouble with the term 'unattended'.  I charge my batteries in the workshop, primarily because that's where all my stuff lives now but also partly because a LiPo fire doesn't just make a lot of heat, it also makes a lot of noxious fumes that you really don't want in your house if you have a viable alternative.

The problem is I can't always be in my workshop for the several hours it takes to charge all my packs before an event.  Family and chores take precedence.  Usually the events are on weekends and usually I work from home on Fridays, so I can charge in the workshop while I'm in the office which is part of the workshop, but I can't actually see the charger or the batteries from my desk, and besides, I'm supposed to be working, not playing around with batteries.  I'll nip out any time I have a screen break and check on them.

I was doing this just the other week, when I noticed one of my old 2S square packs was taking an absolute age to fully charge.  One cell was at 4.21, the other at 4.19, and it had been like that, going up or down by 0.1 of a volt every now and then, for over an hour.  I figured close enough was close enough, unplugged it and started on the next battery, which was an identical pack.

A few hours later it was doing the exact same thing.  Both of these packs are quite old, had a fair bit of use and had a long period where they sat doing nothing, and both are a little bit puffed.

Well, I say a little bit; when I came out to check on the pack a while later, it was still doing that 4.21/4.19 thang.  It was only when my hand touched the LiPo charging sack that I noticed it was hot.  And I mean, almost too hot to touch.  I promptly turned off the charger, unplugged the pack (as best I could - it was a bullet pack so the connectors were inside the sack and the other ends of the bullets plug into the charger via male plugs, so they'll short out if not covered) and took it outside.  Away from anything flammable and with welding gloves on, I opened the sack.

The pack wasn't burning or venting but had swelled to 4 times its size.  The hard case had become distorted with the heat and had split open, revealing 4 internal soft cells.  Each was swollen by the same amount, looking like little Hindeburgs ready to burst into flames.  Oh, the humanity.

The pack went into the workshop incinerator, and there it remains.  By the next morning it had deflated to its original size but looks a real mess.  Since it was pretty much at full charge, there's probably still a lot of potential energy contained inside it and I've been meaning to find a good, clear night to puncture it and watch the fireworks from behind the safety of the incinerator glass.  Somehow the thought of dropping it in saltwater and taking it to the recycling centre just doesn't seem like a good send-off for a pack that gave me so many years of joy.

FWIW the other pack is also in the incinerator with it - chances are it's not far behind the same fate so better not risked with another cycle.  Next time I might come out of my office to find my workshop fulled with toxic fumes.

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I remember when LiPo packs were becoming propular and affordable.  The horror stories kept a lot of people away from them for a long time.  

Simple fact. If you take precautions and use your brain then you will be fine.  In all of the years I've been using LiPo's I've had one issue and that was due to landing on a rock that that punctured one of the early zippy soft packs.  The pack smoked like crazy for a minute and I had a ton of time to get the pack out of the car.  It did evenetually catch fire but it wasn't a huge fire.  I have never had an issue charging a pack.  I have had instances where a NiMh pack exploded and sent cells flying around the shop but never an issue with LiPo. 

With all of that being said I've taken a couple of different approaches to safety over the years.  For long time I only charged my packs in and old metal ammo box. I would place the packs in can then place a plastic bag of sand on top of the pack and charge.  I did this for years without an incident.

About 5 yrs ago we replaced our aging BBQ grill with a new one. I decided to keep the old one and place it beside my work shed outside. After a good degreasing I placed a conccrete paver stone about 12"x12" Inside the grill and I have been charging on that old thing since. I figure if it catches fire there won't be any harm.  It's contained in the BBQ grill. 

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2 hours ago, racer1 said:

I remember when LiPo packs were becoming propular and affordable.  The horror stories kept a lot of people away from them for a long time.  

Simple fact. If you take precautions and use your brain then you will be fine. 

Yep, I'm sure there was a lot of horror stories when cars were becoming popular 100 years ago.  

 

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7 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

Y'know, I have real trouble with the term 'unattended'.  I charge my batteries in the workshop, primarily because that's where all my stuff lives now but also partly because a LiPo fire doesn't just make a lot of heat, it also makes a lot of noxious fumes that you really don't want in your house if you have a viable alternative.

The problem is I can't always be in my workshop for the several hours it takes to charge all my packs before an event.  Family and chores take precedence.  Usually the events are on weekends and usually I work from home on Fridays, so I can charge in the workshop while I'm in the office which is part of the workshop, but I can't actually see the charger or the batteries from my desk, and besides, I'm supposed to be working, not playing around with batteries.  I'll nip out any time I have a screen break and check on them.

I was doing this just the other week, when I noticed one of my old 2S square packs was taking an absolute age to fully charge.  One cell was at 4.21, the other at 4.19, and it had been like that, going up or down by 0.1 of a volt every now and then, for over an hour.  I figured close enough was close enough, unplugged it and started on the next battery, which was an identical pack.

A few hours later it was doing the exact same thing.  Both of these packs are quite old, had a fair bit of use and had a long period where they sat doing nothing, and both are a little bit puffed.

Well, I say a little bit; when I came out to check on the pack a while later, it was still doing that 4.21/4.19 thang.  It was only when my hand touched the LiPo charging sack that I noticed it was hot.  And I mean, almost too hot to touch.  I promptly turned off the charger, unplugged the pack (as best I could - it was a bullet pack so the connectors were inside the sack and the other ends of the bullets plug into the charger via male plugs, so they'll short out if not covered) and took it outside.  Away from anything flammable and with welding gloves on, I opened the sack.

The pack wasn't burning or venting but had swelled to 4 times its size.  The hard case had become distorted with the heat and had split open, revealing 4 internal soft cells.  Each was swollen by the same amount, looking like little Hindeburgs ready to burst into flames.  Oh, the humanity.

The pack went into the workshop incinerator, and there it remains.  By the next morning it had deflated to its original size but looks a real mess.  Since it was pretty much at full charge, there's probably still a lot of potential energy contained inside it and I've been meaning to find a good, clear night to puncture it and watch the fireworks from behind the safety of the incinerator glass.  Somehow the thought of dropping it in saltwater and taking it to the recycling centre just doesn't seem like a good send-off for a pack that gave me so many years of joy.

FWIW the other pack is also in the incinerator with it - chances are it's not far behind the same fate so better not risked with another cycle.  Next time I might come out of my office to find my workshop fulled with toxic fumes.

Interesting description.  If it was a 2S pack but you revealed 4 soft cells, it must have been a 2s2p.  Therein probably lies the cause of failure.  If one of the parallel cells degrades before the other, the charger will likely not know about it and overcharge the bad cell.  Balance charging doesn't work for these and quite often the packs are not even marked as 2p either so you would never know.  A lot of '1s' packs are actually 1s2p, which in my opinion is not safe.

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11 hours ago, Peter_B said:

I heard that Lipos are the only thing Chuck Norris is afraid of.

I think you're confusing Lipos with this:

4242461_ConradMotor.jpg.f81865b1f0f820c45e806dcbb79ce909.jpg

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Well, if a LiPo explosion were to happen to anyone I'd think I'd stand a pretty good chance of being on the receiving end.
So far so good though. Mea culpa though, I've only just started using charge bags.
 

I've had NiCads explode, totally my own silly fault and yeah, stuff sprays all over, cells do go flying.
Worst I've had with a Nimh is a loud band and strange smell, but the battery stayed intact. It did get escorted to the bin though. Scared the willys out of me too.

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16 hours ago, kwkenuf said:

I have charged lipo batteries as many times as nimh by now

1

Since on fireproof concrete, why not?  Direct current is direct current.  No magic to it.  3.7v, 450mAh charger designed for 3.7v Lithium-ion batteries seems to work well on normal alkaline batteries.  Alkalines can never be fully recharged.  The best you can hope for is 80 to 90% of the original voltage.  Then again, if you buy bulk, by the time you use it, it could be at 90% anyway.  If the battery is below 40%, it won't charge.  5-6 minutes for AA batteries, and 2 minutes for AAA works brings them back up.  I don't use recharged batteries in fire and CO2 alarms.  But most of my wall clocks have 5-8 year old AA batteries.  (The sad news is that I can't buy a Ferrari by saving money on AA batteries) 

I do it, but I don't recommend it because I forget.  Alkalines leak if you overcharge them.  It's just messy.  LiPo is worse.  Since I charge in my room, the risk is higher than charging on a concrete.  Even though I have 3 fire extinguishers, I probably won't remember to use them (like the guys below... when I saw the full clip, they panicked for a long time before the blanket was brought in).  Most people don't remember to use them, but they always assume they would.  Using a LiPo charger and a fireproof bag is prudent.  

Nitro cars won't thrash wildly unless the glow plug is hot, and the rpm is high enough to engage the clutch.  I suppose it's similar to the chainsaw.  Still, I think it's a safe practice not to yank on the starter cord of a nitro car on your lap.  

h3eq9Ua.jpg

 

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16 hours ago, racer1 said:

I have had instances where a NiMh pack exploded and sent cells flying around the shop but never an issue with LiPo. 

This is something a lot of people forget (or don't know) when they say they'll steer clear of LiPo for safety reasons.  NiMH and NiCd could explode under certain circumstances.  In fact it was more likely because we never used balancers on NiMH packs and we typically charged until they were red hot.  I've never seen a LiPo fire at my race club but I've seen more than a few NiMH packs explode.  Well, heard.  Usually there's a loud bang followed by a sobbing sound as someone collects what's left of their carbon fibre race chassis off the floor, followed by everyone nearby scrabbling for tissues to brush off anything that landed on them in case it's hazardous.

LiPos don't tend to explode like NiMHs.  It's a chemical fire which will run until the chemicals are exhausted, which takes a while.  IME the flame isn't that big but it's very hot, so it can set fire to nearby inflammables.  Hence why it's generally considered more dangerous if it happens inside a building.

11 hours ago, LongRat said:

Interesting description.  If it was a 2S pack but you revealed 4 soft cells, it must have been a 2s2p.  Therein probably lies the cause of failure.  If one of the parallel cells degrades before the other, the charger will likely not know about it and overcharge the bad cell.  Balance charging doesn't work for these and quite often the packs are not even marked as 2p either so you would never know.  A lot of '1s' packs are actually 1s2p, which in my opinion is not safe.

I wondered this too, and I was wondering if there was a risk of them not balancing properly because of that.  I keep meaning to dig the remnants out of the incinerator to check the exact configuration but it's covered in ash and I can't really be bothered, if I'm being honest.

I did wonder how manufacturers can get such high capacities into such small packs.  I have a pair of shorty 2S hardcases that I used in my drifter and SRBs, they're half the size of my stick packs but they're 4600mAh.  They're Turnigy packs, same brand as the one that puffed, so it's likely they're the same configuration inside.

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On 10/17/2018 at 5:32 PM, TwistedxSlayer said:

Yes. Provided you know it's safe to do so. I wouldn't pick up an unknown chainsaw and try to start it that way.

You keep doing that mate.

I don't believe Darwin needs any more proof to confirm his theory, but one more example can't hurt! (well, won't hurt me anyway! :lol:)

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It's like anything though.

Use something incorrectly and it can end badly.

I'm sure there are plenty of nitro horror stories, but I'm sure that a lot of them were caused by mishandling.

But the nitro loving LiPo haters won't be mentioning them. B)

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14 hours ago, LongRat said:

Interesting description.  If it was a 2S pack but you revealed 4 soft cells, it must have been a 2s2p.  Therein probably lies the cause of failure.  If one of the parallel cells degrades before the other, the charger will likely not know about it and overcharge the bad cell.  Balance charging doesn't work for these and quite often the packs are not even marked as 2p either so you would never know.  A lot of '1s' packs are actually 1s2p, which in my opinion is not safe.

This was a discussion on a Facebook the other week, it was about parallel charging , and how you can charge X amount of batteries off one charger. 

Alot of (including me) , parrelel charging is dangerous , not recommended, - yeah, but it's the same as charging a 2s3p battery?......good point.

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I recounted a tale on @Juggular's "Silliest thing you've seen..." thread which would bear recounting here. It just goes to prove that even NiCad packs would do exciting and interesting things if you did whatever this buffoon did to them.

"About halfway through the first round of heats, I was marshalling a race in a spot quite close to the race control caravan after driving in the previous heat. The race controller was midway through reading out the current race standings when a driver from another heat ran up to the window in a state of some agitation. This was despite the fact that we'd been clearly told at a drivers' briefing before the meeting started DON'T APPROACH RACE CONTROL DURING RACES. In the days before laptops and transponders, there were three people in the caravan, one of whom was watching the cars go past and shouting out the numbers to a second, who was counting the laps on numbered mechanical counters. The race controller was looking over their shoulders, checking the counting lined up with what he could see outside and occasionally giving us updates over the PA. I helped with this process a few times and it was intense, as the cars came past quickly and mistakes were hard to sort out.

Whatever the reason, race control did not want to be dealing with this hopping halfwit's sorry *** in the middle of a race, especially since he was standing directly between the race control window and the track, meaning he was obstructing the view of the counters. I looked at a couple of the other marshalls and we rolled our eyes, feeling suddenly much more relaxed and experienced simply because we weren't that guy.

Over the course of the next few seconds, however, the encounter at race control became much more entertaining. I could see and hear that a heated exchange was taking place between the silliest thing and race control, which included a few choice words from the latter, presumably on the subject of getting away from the window so they could see the race. Then I noticed that the car being gingerly held by the increasingly upset driver – a Boomerang, if I remember correctly – was now crackling and spitting from its battery and emitting smoke. The argument with race control also stepped up a notch, culminating in a presumably accidental PA announcement of the phrase "I DON'T CARE! TAKE IT AWAY!"

At this, the frantic youth got the message and ran back through the pit area, carrying the smoking, spitting car at arm's length in front of him, until he found an isolated spot in the corner of the field where he could drop it and retreat to a safe distance.

Although I saw a lot of the competitors from that day at future events, he was not one of them. I didn't see the car again, either, but it was rumoured that it caught fire and was rendered permanently unusable."

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