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TwistedxSlayer

Ultimate TB01 Slow Build.

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3 minutes ago, Fuijo said:

The Enzo? That complicates things even further because the rear is wider than the front, and you can't use the longer rear kit axles because the bearings in the hubs are bigger than standard.

So the front will appear too wide, and the rear too narrow.

Good luck!

Defo not the Enzo. Even though it is the correct body for the chassis. Was feeling the F430 or 360.

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10 hours ago, Fuijo said:

Here you go. I measured it for you.

P1010671_zps3zrhtpsw.jpg

P1010667_zpsqxgehksb.jpg

16.3cm with the standard arms. 16.9cm with the long arms. I don't know where it came from that the track remains the same, but as you can see it's nonsense.

Thank you for taking the time to measure this! Very much something I should have done a long time ago B) You inspired me to dig out my TB01 stuff and do some soul-searching on what my plans are for these cars, lol. I also did some measurements of the standard and LA setups as well; I got 163 and 168mm, respectively.

It's quite the revelation for me, as I've never noticed the additional 5mm causing any issue with my wheel and body selections. I ran the Castrol ST185 Celica with +2 wheels that were from the original TB01 Evo VI kit, and just assumed that the extra width came from wheels alone :rolleyes:

But I am curious about how crucial this is when trying to pair +2mm wheels with standard-width Tamiya bodies... Are you saying that the +2 wheels will literally protrude beyond the wheel arches? As I recall, most Tamiya kits never seem to have enough track-width to properly fit the bodies, and oftentimes demand solutions to widen things a bit. That aforementioned Celica body is particularly narrow when compared to the more modern stuff, and I still can't see how the track-width would ever be an issue. Conversely, the old TG10 MK1s came with extra-wide axles to provide a full +10mm, and required 200mm width bodies as a consequence. See the difference here? From the looks of things, the LA configuration seems to fall within the confines of the standard-width bodies, which is reflected by the fact that nowhere does Tamiya make note that there would be compatibility issues. But I'll admit this wouldn't be the first time something of importance was "overlooked" by the  technical writers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

7 hours ago, Fuijo said:

The Enzo? That complicates things even further because the rear is wider than the front, and you can't use the longer rear kit axles because the bearings in the hubs are bigger than standard.

So the front will appear too wide, and the rear too narrow.

Yes, this right here is the most frustrating thing about the entire TB01 line -- Not only did they move up to the 6mm diameter from the TGR, but adopted the odd splined-axle design as well. This means that everything was unique to the interface, including the 6mm splined hub which was machined from aluminum to maintain the tolerances required for such a design. I can see that Tamiya was experimenting with moving away from the old pin-though-axle and clamping hex fit, but frustratingly never followed through with offering components to integrate the design into the lineup. Tamiya seems to have a habit of this :unsure:

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7 hours ago, OCD said:

Are you saying that the +2 wheels will literally protrude beyond the wheel arches?

+4 protruded beyond the Enzo arches at the front by too much to run with it. I can't say for sure about +2, but it would be really close. It probably depends on which body, as they seem to vary slightly.

In theory, if +4 wheels with the standard arms fit the body perfectly, then adding 3mm each side with the LA kit would need +1 wheels to get the same width. So +2 would be too wide.

1 hour ago, OCD said:

Would this even work? If it did, this would certainly open you up to a complete array of 5mm diameter components

Not by itself, no. The dogbones are larger at the outer ends, and so need the larger axles. I guess if you can find standard-sized dogbones of the right length, so you can use standard-sized axles,

then those bearings might work. That could then possibly open up options for changinging the rear hubs as well to get better toe-in options.

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On 10/28/2018 at 7:03 PM, Fuijo said:

+4 protruded beyond the Enzo arches at the front by too much to run with it. I can't say for sure about +2, but it would be really close. It probably depends on which body, as they seem to vary slightly.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I realize the LA kit was (as you astutely pointed out) intended to provide a competitive solution for on-road racing, and the additional width was introduced to compensate for the narrower offset wheels and now-standardized 24mm tires.

On 10/28/2018 at 7:03 PM, Fuijo said:

The dogbones are larger at the outer ends, and so need the larger axles. I guess if you can find standard-sized dogbones of the right length, so you can use standard-sized axles

Indeed the dogbones are the one item I can't find appearing anywhere else but in this conversion kit. The LA dogbones are similar to the TGR versions but shorter & with their odd larger-sized pins only on the outboard side. The 53431 universal set gets around this by omitting the weird dogbone entirely, but the still retained the 6mm splined axle stub. My thought was reduce the carrier bearing size to 5mm, and now you're able to use any off-the-shelf 42mm universal that has a 5mm axle. Remember, the TB inboard drive cup accepts the standard dogbone pin size!

On 10/28/2018 at 7:03 PM, Fuijo said:

possibly open up options for changinging the rear hubs as well to get better toe-in options

Yes, swapping in some later design hubs is another option I've mulled over. Unfortunately at that point you've walked far enough away from the original geometry I'm unsure if you're going to benefit from the added toe, but you would have lots of axle options for sure.

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The Levant uses TNS arms and TA05 rear hub carriers. Will swapping out to TA05 hub carriers cure the toe in issue or is the toe in created by the angle of the mounting of the hub by the lower suspension arm

 

I'm happy to step away from the 6mm splined axles and stick with 39mm dog bones provided they do fit.

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I have Tl01la arms and the 53512 evo 2 arms, the evo 2 arms are about 3.5mm longer than the TL01LA arms. They are interchangeable with all associated parts. 

Makes me wonder is 50910 the same as 53512? They look identical in pictures.  

The TL01LA setup does not widen a tl01 at all. Sure makes it drive a badword of a lot better though. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, TwistedxSlayer said:

The Levant uses TNS arms and TA05 rear hub carriers. Will swapping out to TA05 hub carriers cure the toe in issue or is the toe in created by the angle of the mounting of the hub by the lower suspension arm

 

I'm happy to step away from the 6mm splined axles and stick with 39mm dog bones provided they do fit.

The Levant ended up evolving to the TA05 hubs and carriers? Lol, Tamiya must have a warehouse full of old TB01/TNS parts they're trying to shift :lol:

This is the idea I was getting at however: If you can "cleanly" adapt the 5mm hubs and carriers to fit the TB EVO arms, the world will be your oyster in terms of component compatibility goes. As @Fuijo has pointed out, the problem with the rear toe is there isn't enough molded into the arms or hubs, and finding a rear hub with 2 or more degrees would be helpful, but the rest of the geometry would have to be close to the original. I just don't know what's out there. By the sounds of things the TA05 items might be a good place to start? Maybe.

I've also corrected (and edited) my previous statement about the shafts being 39mm; I'm now trying to remind myself that the LA kit is *NOT* the same width as the standard TB01 setup, which means the LA shafts are 42mm, or 3mm longer on each side :D Eventually I will learn, ha!

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49 minutes ago, Juls1 said:

I have Tl01la arms and the 53512 evo 2 arms, the evo 2 arms are about 3.5mm longer than the TL01LA arms. They are interchangeable with all associated parts. 

Makes me wonder is 50910 the same as 53512? They look identical in pictures.  

The TL01LA setup does not widen a tl01 at all. Sure makes it drive a badword of a lot better though. 

 

 

You are correct, 50910 is identical to 53512. Not sure why the Evo II set got the "hard" designation though, as both items seem to be made of the same fiber-reinforced plastic.

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2 minutes ago, TwistedxSlayer said:

Adapting the shouldn't be an issue to be honest. It's just the dog bones that concern me

Well it seems that any 42mm shaft will do, which means you also have a lot of choices here as well.

If you're shooting for the "ultimate" TB01, why not universals rather than dogbones? :)

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Just now, TwistedxSlayer said:

Searching for evo II arms opens up my options.

42mm universals it will be no doubt. I'm sure I've seen them on ebay.

53499 + 53500 + 53501 = 42mm universals with 5mm axles.

I also think the 54515 XV-01 front universal set may be a fit, but you may want to confirm the dimensions with someone who has access to the XV01.

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53 minutes ago, OCD said:

You are correct, 50910 is identical to 53512. Not sure why the Evo II set got the "hard" designation though, as both items seem to be made of the same fiber-reinforced plastic.

 

Ordered 53512.

 

Now got a spare set of 53910.

 

Interesting thought... Will TT02B rear uprights fit.? They should. But will they work.?

 

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10 minutes ago, TwistedxSlayer said:

 

Ordered 53512.

 

Now got a spare set of 53910.

 

Interesting thought... Will TT02B rear uprights fit.? They should. But will they work.?

 

Ha, I've apparently done the same thing at some point -- I have both 53512 and a single 53910 pair. :rolleyes: Too bad you are located on the wrong side of the Atlantic or I would have just sent them to you.

The compatibility of the uprights is going to come down to the spacing/dimensions of where the bearings are located relative to the pivot points. Too far out and you will have a loose fit in the drive cups, too far in and you'll have binding or worse. You're dealing with few millimeters in any case :unsure:

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Just now, TwistedxSlayer said:

But apparently you can't use 53345 with 53430 which is the wide arm kit.

Was just typing the same :lol:

And this perfectly illustrates why it's such a challenge to identify compatible parts you don't have in the palm of your hand. There's just never enough dimensional data to make educated decisions on what might fit correctly.

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What about Evo II components? The TB lineup abandoned the 6mm splined axles and adopted the standard 5mm pinned-axle interface by this point. Surely they introduced uprights with more toe as well?

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Visually... I don't see why not. Lol they look the same. Or maybe you cant use them because they are designed to take the 5mm bearings and the 6mm ones won't fit that are supplied with the 53430 kit.

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Gonna get this car built and want someone to race it for me. Lol. Just to see how it handles out there on a track. Coz if I get this built right... It should be awesome. Little on the heavy side it may be but awesome none the less.

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1 minute ago, TwistedxSlayer said:

Visually... I don't see why not. Lol they look the same. Or maybe you cant use them because they are designed to take the 5mm bearings and the 6mm ones won't fit that are supplied with the 53430 kit.

Could be. That would be in line with how Tamiya normally designates cross-compatibility of hop-ups. They probably realized most people wouldn't want to replace the entire axle assembly just to be able to use the uprights.

I'm going to look through my spares and see if I have some uprights that are possible candidates for your project. No promises, but I might be able to glean a little info that would be a head-start for your search.

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2 minutes ago, OCD said:

Could be. That would be in line with how Tamiya normally designates cross-compatibility of hop-ups. They probably realized most people wouldn't want to replace the entire axle assembly just to be able to use the uprights.

I'm going to look through my spares and see if I have some uprights that are possible candidates for your project. No promises, but I might be able to glean a little info that would be a head-start for your search.

I've unleashed an undying love for the Tb01. Lol

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2 minutes ago, TwistedxSlayer said:

Gonna get this car built and want someone to race it for me. Lol. Just to see how it handles out there on a track. Coz if I get this built right... It should be awesome. Little on the heavy side it may be but awesome none the less.

:lol:

TB01s are pigs, but they are a joy to build and operate in my opinion. Your project is rekindling my old thoughts and feelings on this chassis! I've thought about doing this long arm "conversion-conversion" in the past, so it's great to see someone else interested in taking a swing at it.

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