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JNSD1

Top Force help and advice

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Hi team.

Well as a few of you would have followed I talked myself into another two buggies this week (Black Friday global sales have KILLED my credit card!)

One of the said purchases was the stunning Top Force 2017 re-re!

I've been trawling the forum and posts and have tried to the best of my ability to work out what the best upgrades are for this beast but am admittedly a little confused in some / all areas! My aim is to make her fast and handle well. She will be tracked, but not competitively.

The questions for the brains trust as follows:

1. Are the TA03 Ball diffs the preferred upgrade to the standard diffs? What is the actual difference between them and the stock Top Force and Manta Ray ball diffs? Manta Ray seems to not have the thrust bearings if I am not mistaken? But looking at the manual, doesn't it come stock with ball diffs? (Page 4 - https://www.tamiya.com/english/rc/rcmanual/47350.pdf) If it does, then I feel prettttttttty silly for researching so much but seems to me like everyone wants the ball diffs so there must be a difference? I looked through this thread: 

 

And this thread: 

2. I would KILL for the Tamiya Hi-Caps, but MY GOD they are now hard to find and if you do, the extortion money being demanded is SO offensive. People have talked a lot about the Tamiya Big Bore Dampers as potentially the best, but again, they're extremely expensive. Any other thoughts on how to get a hold of nice looking, aluminium dampers that are an upgrade to the stock or is this simply a case of "forget about it JD, you have to bite the bullet and pay the CASH!!!!!!!" Are the DF-03 #53926 a good option? If yes, anyone ever remove the blue anodising? ;)

3. This thread is OBVIOUSLY amazing: 

But there are so many mods, to try to replicate it would cost triple the buggy these days. Out of them all, what would be the most critical? Universal shafts, aluminium hex adapters, lightweight 4WD shaft, aluminium motor mount etc?

Thanks guys, I know a lot of this is relatively well-trodden, but from the guys who know the platform well, have been down this path before and can help with the "essentials" and a couple of "nice to haves" it'll certainly help!

Build thread next!

 

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I have a Top Force Evo runner I have spent well over $1000 on lol, so I think I am qualified to answer this.

Yes buy TA-03 ball diffs, they are lighter than the Evo's alloy units and require less maintenance, I have bashed a pair with an 8.5 T brushless  2 cell lipo combo for years, no drama

My opinion, high caps or wait , you will find some

Alloy motor mount is an absolute requirement, everything else can be fitted later

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If it doesn't have an alloy motor mount, get one. Before you build it. I had a Yeah Racing one which was great. Bearings if it doesn't have them all. 50529 plastic gearset if it doesn't have them. It comes with front universals so I would probably leave the rears until they wear. Metal hexes if it doesn't come with them. Can't help with the diffs. No need for a prop shaft upgrade in my opinion. It comes with the hop up steel shaft anyway. 

I mentioned on the other thread about shocks. I have no idea how they compare to hi caps though. At least with more modern shocks you can easily get springs to tune the handling if it's a runner. Speaking of which, the wheels are those weird Tamiya not-quite-2.2 size so some modern 2.2 wheels and tyres and foams to suit the conditions is the biggest thing. If you want to keep it T then the white Dark Impact wheels is the way to go. 

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13 hours ago, Snappy1 said:

I have a Top Force Evo runner I have spent well over $1000 on lol, so I think I am qualified to answer this.

Yes buy TA-03 ball diffs, they are lighter than the Evo's alloy units and require less maintenance, I have bashed a pair with an 8.5 T brushless  2 cell lipo combo for years, no drama

My opinion, high caps or wait , you will find some

Alloy motor mount is an absolute requirement, everything else can be fitted later

Brilliant, that's what I wanted to know. I am planning on putting a 7.5t ~ 8.5t in her so wanted to know how strong this stuff is. Good advice on Hi-Caps, kinda what I wanted to hear.

13 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

If it doesn't have an alloy motor mount, get one. Before you build it. I had a Yeah Racing one which was great. Bearings if it doesn't have them all. 50529 plastic gearset if it doesn't have them. It comes with front universals so I would probably leave the rears until they wear. Metal hexes if it doesn't come with them. Can't help with the diffs. No need for a prop shaft upgrade in my opinion. It comes with the hop up steel shaft anyway. 

I mentioned on the other thread about shocks. I have no idea how they compare to hi caps though. At least with more modern shocks you can easily get springs to tune the handling if it's a runner. Speaking of which, the wheels are those weird Tamiya not-quite-2.2 size so some modern 2.2 wheels and tyres and foams to suit the conditions is the biggest thing. If you want to keep it T then the white Dark Impact wheels is the way to go. 

What alloy motor mount is the one to get do you think? I saw there was a Yeah racing one (light blue anodised I think from memory) but have also seen others with a Tamiya aluminium one, what car is that off? I ordered bearing already as it doesn't look like anyone ever received their model with them. Good advice on the rear universals, didn't know it came with front ones. Metal hexes I assume it will not come with, what do people generally buy on this front?

Your recommendation on the other thread was what got me hunting for all these different shocks (thank you again!). The DF-03 ones look great, and may well be the end option as they seem to be currently the best balance between high quality and price that Tamiya offer. 

11 hours ago, Snappy1 said:

High caps were listed at Stella models for November as new stock, but have sold out, worth contacting them at their site, they are usually very good I find.

https://www.stellamodels.com.hk/47358-force-2017-high-capacity-damper-4pcs-tamiya-p-10259.html

Done, emailed!

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What size are the wheel hexes for a direct replacement? 5mm? It’s one of the things I forgot about getting.

I’ve still not built my TF that I got last year. Really want to do it this winter as a project. 

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10 minutes ago, dc-arena said:

What size are the wheel hexes for a direct replacement? 5mm? It’s one of the things I forgot about getting.

I’ve still not built my TF that I got last year. Really want to do it this winter as a project. 

These are the ones that @djmcnz used. I'm unsure if they're 5mm or not.

https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/option-parts/rc-pin-type-wheel-adapter-set/

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Tamiya hexes are normally 6mm. Just buy some pretty coloured clamping ones from China off ebay. 

@JNSD1 Motor mount on DF01 as stock is plastic. If there is a metal one in the box then you are all good. 

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1 hour ago, MICHAELs TopForce17 said:

Nice, thanks! Found this one for a great price, isn't original but that doesn't matter on this part. https://www.ebay.com/itm/tamiya-TA01-TA02-TA02T-Manta-Ray-TA-013BU-alloy-motor-mount-original-type/232179192196?epid=690271680&hash=item360ef55184:g:bPEAAOSw6btXQyvG:rk:3:pf:0

Assume that I don't need the prop shaft as already have one in the kit so this is a more cost-effective option.

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Only just saw this... I agree with most of the above.

  • You need an alu motor mount, any brand will do (any TA/DF/01/02 one will fit) Yeah Racing, GPM, etc.
  • The kit ball diffs are fine if you want to save some money, just upgrade to 53136 for both
  • Kit prop shaft is hardened steel but will probably bend as soon as you hit something front-on so it pays to know what you'll replace it with
  • Don't worry about a front one-way or torque splitter until you've run it some and then decide, you're unlikely to need either IMHO
  • Rear universal (CV) shafts are a worthwhile upgrade, again brand doesn't particularly matter in this case (as long as they fit)
  • Rather than the alu hexes I got you're better off getting the alu clamp type ones that are now out there, measure your kit plastic ones, I think (?) they're 5mm and not 6mm
  • Shocks - I can't make any recommendations here I'm afraid, I haven't used any others
  • Full bearings obviously

With a 7.5 (!) or even an 8.5 you'll absolutely need to reinforce the rear gearbox so read up on that here too.

Almost everything else in my build thread is 'bling' although some of the alu GPM parts are inexpensive enough that they can be worthwhile, especially at the front (C-hubs, knuckles, gearbox bottom).

It's a fun build and a very reliable and simple to operate chassis, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

 

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On 12/3/2018 at 2:32 PM, djmcnz said:

Only just saw this... I agree with most of the above.

  • You need an alu motor mount, any brand will do (any TA/DF/01/02 one will fit) Yeah Racing, GPM, etc.
  • The kit ball diffs are fine if you want to save some money, just upgrade to 53136 for both
  • Kit prop shaft is hardened steel but will probably bend as soon as you hit something front-on so it pays to know what you'll replace it with
  • Don't worry about a front one-way or torque splitter until you've run it some and then decide, you're unlikely to need either IMHO
  • Rear universal (CV) shafts are a worthwhile upgrade, again brand doesn't particularly matter in this case (as long as they fit)
  • Rather than the alu hexes I got you're better off getting the alu clamp type ones that are now out there, measure your kit plastic ones, I think (?) they're 5mm and not 6mm
  • Shocks - I can't make any recommendations here I'm afraid, I haven't used any others
  • Full bearings obviously

With a 7.5 (!) or even an 8.5 you'll absolutely need to reinforce the rear gearbox so read up on that here too.

Almost everything else in my build thread is 'bling' although some of the alu GPM parts are inexpensive enough that they can be worthwhile, especially at the front (C-hubs, knuckles, gearbox bottom).

It's a fun build and a very reliable and simple to operate chassis, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

 

Thanks @djmcnz

Question, I can't find part #52136 that you quoted to upgrade the ball diffs. What part is this?

Any recommendations on rear universal CV's?

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4 hours ago, JNSD1 said:

Thanks @djmcnz

Question, I can't find part #52136 that you quoted to upgrade the ball diffs. What part is this?

Any recommendations on rear universal CV's?

I think you read it wrong. Part number is 53136. I just google'd it and got a bunch of options to buy. 

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CV shafts IME get Tamiya. They are expensive compared to other brands but I had two sets of yeah racing which started life in my DF01 then transferred around several other vehicle. All four cracked and broke at the swing shift joint within months. Got tamiya shafts in the front of my Thunder Dragon and they have been solid so far. 53791 is the part number. 

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5 hours ago, JNSD1 said:

Thanks @djmcnz

Question, I can't find part #52136 that you quoted to upgrade the ball diffs. What part is this?

Any recommendations on rear universal CV's?

 

26 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

I think you read it wrong. Part number is 53136. I just google'd it and got a bunch of options to buy. 

Yep, wrong number. :)

Few on eBay, you should be able to pick up 2 for less than US$10 - they make the build easier and are much, much, much more durable.

 

23 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

CV shafts IME get Tamiya. They are expensive compared to other brands but I had two sets of yeah racing which started life in my DF01 then transferred around several other vehicle. All four cracked and broke at the swing shift joint within months. Got tamiya shafts in the front of my Thunder Dragon and they have been solid so far. 53791 is the part number. 

I can't comment on the newer type but if they're the correct length then I'd go for those. The originals are still available (part number 14135028) but they are pricey... 

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I am having trouble finding those ball diffs and CV's, would anyone be able to assist? :) . Are they on eBay? The only ones I saw were £60! Is that right?

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Thanks guys! Couldn't see for looking :)

 

So, are those ball diffs a lot better than the standard ones in the TF?

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30 minutes ago, dc-arena said:

So, are those ball diffs a lot better than the standard ones in the TF?

No, if you have Top Force (DF/TA/01/02) ball diffs use them, if you need new ball diffs get the TA03 ones.

Edit: if you're going to use a quick motor like a 8.5 or lower then you might want to use a gear diff (e.g. Manta Ray) with grease up front, if you can find a good balance with that it's zero setup and maintenance and more predictable if you add a one-way or torque splitter.

 

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Right early Christmas present to myself just ordered this lot from Tamico:

 
47350 Tamiya Top Force
50529 Tamiya G parts gears
19115041 Tamiya Top force J-parts
53136 Tamiya Thrust bearing kit x2
4135028 Tamiya Universal shaft x2
1825076 Tamiya Top Force Body
1835061 Tamiya Top Force Under Tray
9805393 Tamiya Front and Rear Shock towers Top Force
 
YR YBA-0002 Yeah racing diff.-balls (ceramic) 3mm (12 PCs.) X2
YR-TA01-013BU Yeah Racing Alu motor Mount
TA01-134BU Yeah Racing alu driveshaft with trans joints
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
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3 hours ago, gizard said:

Right early Christmas present to myself just ordered this lot from Tamico:

 
47350 Tamiya Top Force
50529 Tamiya G parts gears
19115041 Tamiya Top force J-parts
53136 Tamiya Thrust bearing kit x2
4135028 Tamiya Universal shaft x2
1825076 Tamiya Top Force Body
1835061 Tamiya Top Force Under Tray
9805393 Tamiya Front and Rear Shock towers Top Force
 
YR YBA-0002 Yeah racing diff.-balls (ceramic) 3mm (12 PCs.) X2
YR-TA01-013BU Yeah Racing Alu motor Mount
TA01-134BU Yeah Racing alu driveshaft with trans joints
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Where do you install the Thurst Bearings?

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It replaces the tiny loose ball bearings sandwiched between two washers inside the body of the ball diff

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32 minutes ago, dc-arena said:

Where do you install the Thurst Bearings?

image.png.38579e7fbc79848a0dbe1e2764c806b6.png

There, instead of MA10, MA11, GB1 and MA8

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