Top Force help and advice

[dc-arena 81]

Perfect, thanks!!

[gizard 133]

Would this be the right Pinion to replace the standard kit item for the 2017 Top Force:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/rw-6-pinion-21-teeth/rc-car-products/13760

???

 

Also with a 2s and 10.5t TBLM-02s (using HW 10BL120 ESC ) what size could I go to doesn't seem to say anything in the manual?

[ThunderDragonCy 7873]

54 minutes ago, gizard said:

Would this be the right Pinion to replace the standard kit item for the 2017 Top Force:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/rw-6-pinion-21-teeth/rc-car-products/13760

???

 

Also with a 2s and 10.5t TBLM-02s (using HW 10BL120 ESC ) what size could I go to doesn't seem to say anything in the manual?

That's the correct pitch. For 10.5t you need a final drive ratio of 7.5-8 ideally so check your manual and see which pinion gives you that. 

[gizard 133]

Whoops missed it - there is a section but it's not very helpful list:

21T 1:8.59

20T 1:9.02

19T 1:9.49

18T 1:10.02

17T 1:10.61

16T 1:11.27

I assume therefore that it should be the 21T anyway being the nearest.

[ThunderDragonCy 7873]

Definitely 21t then. One of the limitations of the DF01 in my opinion. My Thunder Dragon goes down to 6.7 which is spot on for 13.5t. Maybe see if you can track down the speed tuned gearset? Was supposed to increase the speed potential of the TA01 but for modern motors it would give you better options. Or didn't I hear Robinson were making a Spur again? Maybe that has options. 

[gizard 133]

Started building this - will do a build thread with pics once complete. - It advises in the manual to use Synthetic Rubber glue to glue the drive shafts it!? I assume this is only to hold it together before the dog bones / universals are in place to stop them falling out - never seen this in any other builds....

[djmcnz 754]

17 hours ago, gizard said:

...It advises in the manual to use Synthetic Rubber glue to glue the drive shafts it!...

Wut? 

Pic of instructions?

 

[gizard 133]

Sorry I meant outdrives glued into the Diff.! see pic below - it's not the clearest

 

[djmcnz 754]

Well, that's certainly new (to me).

IIRC that's the splined part of the shaft so there's not going to be any rotational play. The only real reason to use cement there would be to stop the cups falling out if the dogbones were ejected. Now dogbone ejection is actually quite common on these but the (proper) solution is to use universals rather than glue lol. I can't believe Tamiya suggested cement... diff maintenance would become even more troublesome.

You don't need it, don't apply it. Either deal with the occasional ejection (and don't run the buggy with no shafts) or replace the dogbones with uni shafts (and hard cups because the soft kit ones are terrible).

 

[gizard 133]

I bought an extra set of uni shafts with the kit but have not bought hardened cups yet.... - I might have some others lying around from a TT-02 which share the same with DF's if I remember correctly..... dunno if they will fit have not looked yet....

 

cheers

 

G.

[Thommo 1217]

I think you'll find that cementing the splines is to help prevent them from stripping....especially the soft kit out-drives.  It's a pretty common failure with hotter motors for sure so the hardened cups is a good idea.  I've seen them shear off at the spline too but that was with a locked front diff.

You just lever them out with a flat screwdriver when you need to do diff maintenance or a re-build. 

[Saito2 6678]

Thommo is correct. I've heard of folks using mild threadlock or superglue for the same purpose. IIRC, the ball diff outdrives have a shorter spline engagement than the comparable gear diff outdrives which doesn't help matters.  

[StueyS 41]

I used some carefully applied gel superglue to retain my outdrives. It hopefully helps stop the play in between the splines and diff plates as the fit is not very good imo.

 

[gizard 133]

Hmm maybe some of the Tamiya Red gel tread lock will suffice...

[dc-arena 81]

Any drive cups that people recommend? Another thing on the to-buy list for the TF it seems 😂

[Juls1 1660]

It’s generally not the drive cups that strip, it’s the part inside the diff itself. Making the drive cups stay in place fixes that. 

The only other way round it is ditch the ball diffs in favor of gear diffs

[Juls1 1660]

It’s generally not the drive cups that strip, it’s the part inside the diff itself. Making the drive cups stay in place fixes that. 

The only other way round it is ditch the ball diffs in favor of gear diffs

[djmcnz 754]

I ran a 13x2 back in the day relentlessly on two TFE chassis' (admittedly on NiCad packs) and never had a problem with the (ball) diffs or (hard) cups... if you're running a 1990's buggy with more power than that then you're going to have way more problems than this cement will fix!

I still don't believe it's necessary but yes, I imagine threadlock will work just fine... heck, a thick grease is probably enough. I'm still not convinced it's a real-world problem.

 

[dave.723 132]

Hi there ! Nice thread as I am also in the prep of a TF build.

I just missed a chance to get hi-caps. And I think there must be other options available out there. I read kyosho are making good shocks. I read about gold and velvet shocks but do not really know from what time they are or if they fit and where to get them.

Would be interesting if someone knows more about shock options ...

Thanks David

 

[Saito2 6678]

4 hours ago, djmcnz said:

I ran a 13x2 back in the day relentlessly on two TFE chassis' (admittedly on NiCad packs) and never had a problem with the (ball) diffs or (hard) cups...

Honestly, neither have I. I was only made aware of the issue when people started putting in powerful brushless systems like the Castle Mamba 5700.

1 hour ago, dave.723 said:

I read about gold and velvet shocks but do not really know from what time they are or if they fit and where to get them.

I'm not familiar with Velvet shocks but Kyosho Gold shocks were a top quality shocks from back in the day. Perhaps the Tamiya DF03 hop up shock set would fit (?). They can be made to fit the Manta Ray, which is basically the same DF01 platform as the Top Force.

[gizard 133]

How about 54028 Aeration Dampers - I have them on a DT-03T with softer springs could try them on the TF once built...

[ThunderDragonCy 7873]

53926 definitely fits. You just need to build as per the Manta Ray RERE instruction manual. IIRC you use the long eyelet off the cva sprue you get with the top force and don't put a spacer inside the front shocks when you build then.

Aerations should fit with the same mods as the df03 shocks. Or get a set of rear Aerations for the front of the top force and put the 7mm shaft spacer from the cva sprues inside to get them about the right length. Maybe use the short cva eyelets too. 

[Juggular 4961]

12 hours ago, djmcnz said:

I ran a 13x2 back in the day relentlessly on two TFE chassis' (admittedly on NiCad packs) and never had a problem with the (ball) diffs or (hard) cups... if you're running a 1990's buggy with more power than that then you're going to have way more problems than this cement will fix!

I still don't believe it's necessary but yes, I imagine threadlock will work just fine... heck, a thick grease is probably enough. I'm still not convinced it's a real-world problem.

I was in the same camp just 30 minutes ago... 

But I just saw a video on a $400 motor dyno.  2500kv motor at 7.7 volt was pumping out 2,900 g/cm (286.43 N/mm) of torque. (2500kv is only about 15.5t)  Considering GT-tuned (same spec as Technigold), and Super Stock put out 500g/cm, that's 6 times the torque (12 times of the silver can).  I'm having a hard time processing it...  If you run forwards and backwards a dozen times with that much torque, the splines on the soft metal diff output could be damaged.  I guess the glue/threadlock/thick grease is not for any brushed motor, but for brushless motors.  

[djmcnz 754]

On 12/19/2018 at 9:41 AM, dc-arena said:

Any drive cups that people recommend? Another thing on the to-buy list for the TF it seems 😂

53217 for ball diffs and 53218 for gear diffs. Not expensive on eBay or from the likes of RCMart... grab a few sets because once they're gone I doubt we'll ever see them again (from Tamiya at least).

 

[Snappy1 966]

Just a side note, RC Mart has over 20 sets of Speed tuned gears in stock, cost me approx. $11 US shipped