Recommendations on Re-re

[barryf 5]

Hi,

I know this is subjective but I'm looking for a re-re to complete.  My only prerequisite is I don't really want to build something I had as a kid.  Back in the 80s I had the following:

Grasshopper, Fox, Boomerang, Hotshot 2, RC10, Optima, Wild Willy, Kyosho Gas Montero, Kyosho front wheel drive Puegoet. All but the Wild Willy are gone.  About ten years ago I got the Willy going again and bought a Hornet re-release.  They have been sitting on the shelf for years but now I'm itching to build one again.

Was thinking Avante but torn if I should get an Egress or the Avante Black. 

 

What I really want is a 959 but I know that is never happening.  Any opinions?

 

Thanks

[Lee76 638]

I just finished the Avante, standard though, a really enjoyable build as it has quite a lot of parts and looks great. I’m more into the build than the drive, so this was perfect.

I get that the Avante black has some ‘hop-ups’ and is a special edition, which must appeal to the collectors, but I still think the metallic blue one looks better...

My next will be a sandscorcher with some customisations as I love the detailing, and on that note, I see most of your list are buggy types, How about something different and a little bigger like the hi lux or bruiser? 

 

Guess it depends on what you want to do with it

 

[barryf 5]

Thought about the Bruiser but the price point is a bit more than I want to deal with.  I also thought about the Defender as I have real one but it's not vintage. Superchamp looks awesome to build but less fun to drive.

 

It might have to be the Avante!

[Juggular 4964]

I can think of 2 types of Tamiya chassis you might consider: ORV and FAV. 

The Frog/Blackfoot chassis is a classic. The ancient design is still very capable.  The other chassis is the Fast Attack Vehicle / Wild One.  I feel it to be a step-up.  I don't know why it should be.  Maybe because the chassis is lower? 

Nobody will deny that the Avante represents the pinnacle of 80's Tamiya buggies.  But there is that law of the universe to consider... (against using your Avante as a runner).  The way I see it, you've asked "which re-release should I start first?"   You can get the Avante, and get your flames going.  Then, you could get ORV or FAV as a basher(s).  (Or the other way around...)  

 

 

[GTodd 1352]

Given the current releases and what you have owned I recommend the Schumacher Cat XLS. I'm in the same boat, I want something different. I'm getting a XLS after I order my Astute!

[JNSD1 288]

Always depends on desire from your memory bank. If you're like me, you'll want to Bruiser #1 then the Avante #2 then the Egress #3.

Bruiser was the best build I've experienced with Tamiya, but I took my time (mainly on the body, driver and lighting) and it represents the pinnacle for me. It is as you've stated more expensive than the Avante, but it's marginal at that end of the hobby. Avante I haven't even built yet, or the Egress, they'll be done soon.

[Nicadraus 6201]

Between the Avante and Egress, I'd go with the Egress. Better and improved version of the Avante. Plus the all CF decks.

[skinned 134]

so you never had a srb?...what about the sand scorcher?..and it looks like you into kyosho..how about the scorpion?

[barryf 5]

I will admit the buggy champ looks great. I assume it looks better than it runs. 

The avante black is appealing but not out yet.

If kyosho brought back the optima mid I would love to get one.

[barryf 5]

Wow now I'm looking around and realizing my futaba controls from ten years ago are obsolete.  Is Futaba gone?

Whats a good 2.4 controller to get?  What is a good stick and a good gun option?

All this crap about brushless and lipo batteries too!! 

I need the following:

Charger

Battery - doesn't have to be lipo but not opposed

Speedo control, receiver, servo unless it comes with the controller.  Other option is to pull all this from my 10 year old hornet as it had a futaba speed control from back then.

[Mahjik 197]

6 hours ago, barryf said:

Is Futaba gone?

 

Nope.  They are still around and very popular.  However, they are on the expensive side but they have a lot of options:

 

https://www.futabarc.com/systems/surface.html

 

[JNSD1 288]

Futaba are still considered one of the best in the business, but as @mahjik said, they're as expensive as they always were. I have had a few now and ended up finding a special on the 4PLV which is awesome and reasonable.

As for batteries and chargers, I tend to get all that stuff from HobbyKing as they have the best prices. Start with a 2S LiPo and maybe something like the iMax B6-AC - https://hobbyking.com/en_us/imax-b6-ac-v2-charger-discharger-1-6-cells-genuine-au-plug.html

Battery wise the Turnigy ones are great and represent amazing value. Anything from 3000mAh up is great - https://hobbyking.com/en_us/batteries-chargers/batteries/lipo.html?config=52&brand=2033&wrh=6&capacity=2983-5200

[Juggular 4964]

On 12/4/2018 at 1:31 PM, barryf said:

Wow now I'm looking around and realizing my futaba controls from ten years ago are obsolete.  Is Futaba gone?

Whats a good 2.4 controller to get?  What is a good stick and a good gun option?

All this crap about brushless and lipo batteries too!! 

I need the following:

Charger

Battery - doesn't have to be lipo but not opposed

Speedo control, receiver, servo unless it comes with the controller.  Other option is to pull all this from my 10 year old hornet as it had a futaba speed control from back then.

[Radio]

Do you want "the top of the line (but basic) radio?"  Then Futaba ($130).  For functions, Spektrum gives you more, a 5ch pistol grip for about $110.  (There are not-so-basic 7ch radios, but cars probably don't need 7ch)  

There are Futabas and Spektrums without a screen for about $70. Why don't I mention these single-memory radios?  

Because FlySky GT3C does better for less. You get the most important functions of the $100-range radios for $40.  One other thing to consider for the future: If you want to get more than 1 car, expandability is an issue.  i.e., the cost of the receivers. 

A bit of a side note: if you are coming off of 27mhz era (like I did), you don't have to get a new radio for a new car.  One 2.4Ghz radio can "remember" anywhere from 10 cars to 100 cars.  Spektrum DX5C ($110) remembers 20 cars.  Flysky GT3C ($40) remembers 10 cars (if you hack it, 60 cars).  Futaba 3PV ($130) has 10 car memory.  

The receivers for the Futabas and Spektrums are about $30 each.  Which means 5 more cars would cost you another $150.  If you think, "5 more cars! That's a lot!"  Well, give it a year, and tell me again.  Flysky receivers are $6 each.  Equipping 5 more cars would cost $30.  For $70, you can either get a single-memory, no-screen (but brand name) radio that does less.  Or you can get a Flysky and get 10 car memory, with a screen and 5 additional receivers.  Flysky helped me breed cars like bunnies.  I got more Tamiya cars with the money saved from the radio.  

What's the real difference in control?  Not much.  Admittedly, a cheap radio would have a cheap feel to it in your hands.  If that's a turn-off, go with Spektrum or Futaba.  But they all have the basic functions like trims, servo reverse, dual rates, exponential, end-point adjustment, ABS.  Futaba 3PV may have a channel mixing function.  If you get Flysky, don't get GT3B (B version uses more batteries than C version). 

[ESC] 

If you want to stay with a brushed motor, Hobbywing Quicrun 1060 (60A) has become the standard.  You can get one for about $15.  If you want to stay with the stock motor (affectionately called "silver can"), you can even use Quicrun 1040 (40A) for $12.  Quicrun 1060 has a voltage cut-off of 6v for LiPo protection. (LiPo dies if you drain too much)  

Or you can put in a brushless system.  I don't like it too much, because fans on ESC are loud.  But that's just me.  For about $40, you can get a GoolRC brushless motor & ESC combo.  Make sure to get "3650."  36mm x 50mm.  That's the 540 sized motor, not 380 sized motor.  60A ESC is good.  Don't get "3660"  That's a lot bigger motor, and uses a thicker shaft. (unless your car has a room for it, and you can find a proper pinion gear)  Speed is indicated as KV.  It basically means RPM per volt.  So, if you have 7.4v, and if the motor is 3000kv, then 7.4v x 3000kv = 22200 RPM.  3500kv will give you 25900 RPM.  4000 KV will give you almost 30,000 RPM.  Of course higher RPM at the cost of run-time, but the run-time penalty is not as bad as brushed motors.  GoolRC is a cheap and easy starting point.  More expensive systems could go up to $400. 

[LiPo]

The Standard charger would be IMAX B6.  IMAX B6 Mini needs a 12v power supply.  But there is a version that is not so mini (for about $40), it has a built-in power supply.  IMAX B6 charges all kinds of batteries.  LiPo, LiFe, Lithium Ion, NiMH, NiCd, even a lead battery.  But really, most LiPo chargers these days will do just fine.  Charge speed is the issue.  Higher amp is faster.  If the max charge rate is 1A, it will take 5 hours to charge 5000mAh LiPo.  If the max charge rate is 5A (version 1 that I have), it will take 1 hour.  IMAX B6 version 2 has 6A rating, so it will charge 5000mAh in 50 minutes.  If you give up the 12V charge function, wall chargers can give you greater amp, faster charge rate.  

Batteries are... wild west.  There isn't a standard battery.  Most are from China just like iPhone batteries, because the rare metal used in batteries are found in China.  As JNSD1 mentioned, Turnigy is a major battery brand.  

More of an issue is the connector.  What type of connector you are going to use will put you in one of the 3 camps.  Good ol' Tamiya, but it's quickly phasing out.  Tamiya connectors are rated for 1A.  But ESCs are using up to 60A.  So, you see the problem there.  Two other real contenders are Deans T connector, which is small and light, but harder to solder and hard to connect and disconnect.  XT60 is slightly bigger, easier to solder, easier to connect and disconnect.  I bought 20 pairs of XT60 of good reputation and used up most of them.   

[Servo] 

The all-time-standard is Futaba S3003.  But seriously, it has become "the bare minimum standard" model.  Hobbyking has dozens of different models available for cheaper prices.  Turnigy AN-10, for example, is $8.50.  Torque is 10kg, 0.13 sec speed.  (Futaba S3003 is 4kg, 0.19 sec)  So, twice stronger and 30% faster than Futaba.  Turnigy AN-13 gives you 14kg of torque at the same speed. But more expensive at $9.60. Both are metal gears too.  Hobbyking brand has a "standard servo."  At 4.3kg, and 0.17 sec, it's equivalent to Futaba S3003, but $3.50.  I like $5 a ball-bearing version better.  Savox is supposed to be a better brand, but one I've got is so twitchy, I don't know if I'm ever going to use it when I have cheaper, actually-functioning ones.  There are digital servos, which are good at holding at exact angles.  But it drains more battery.  Unless you like to have a crawler cling to a rock at a precise angle, analogs would do just fine.  

 

Well, that should sum up 20 years of RC advancements in 2 pages...

 

[NWarty 1325]

Excellent point Juggular 

[WillyChang 1814]

yep, top notch history cliff notes there from juggy!

i still like my (now vintage) Spektrum DSM2s but FlySky is great; if you're not seriously racing everything from HobbyKing does the job perfectly just fine 

 

oh the only omission... ballbearings today are so dirt cheap, buy in bulk & build them into every car - even the ones destined to sit on the shelf  

[barryf 5]

I kinda want this:

https://www.amazon.com/Fine-Electric-Drive-Model-tamiya/dp/B0077K0WM2/ref=pd_sbs_21_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0077K0WM2&pd_rd_r=f11ab671-f8a2-11e8-a598-6b142cabb10b&pd_rd_w=cnGLE&pd_rd_wg=0B7xn&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=7d5d9c3c-5e01-44ac-97fd-261afd40b865&pf_rd_r=0PE3T1XYR6X7CRQ7ERXM&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=0PE3T1XYR6X7CRQ7ERXM

 

Is it dumb?

 

Also as for lipo batteries how are they sized.  One issue with my wild willy sitting is I don't have a hump battery.  No clue the shapes and equivalency. As I write this I realize I could measure.  

 

What is the equivalent of a 7.2 in lipo?  Sorry obviously if this is covered everywhere else.

 

 

[WillyChang 1814]

yeah don't go buying that FineSpec rubbish, that's same as what supplied with the RTR "eXpert Built" versions afaik. Wouldn't go spending money buying that junk, if you really want it there's probably plenty of units been ripped out of XBs unused - go offer swap of a sixpack of brewskis maybe

 

Are you talking Willy M38?

there is no direct equivalent lipo for 7.2V humppack, both in size OR WEIGHT (nicad weighs about 350g, lipo lighter at 200g... Willy won't wheelie)

just get a 7.2V NiMH humppack, works best

M38 goes amazingly fast on stock 540, imho you don't want 8.4V

 

[barryf 5]

This is all great stuff. Ten years ago I bought futabu gun controllers that came with the ESC so that is why I was drawn to the Tamiya stuff as it was one stop but now that I see how things are I will get the Quicrun 1060.

 

Really appreciate all the help here. Still not sure of the car but am leaning to wanting something 4 wheel drive. 

 

 

[Fuijo 880]

On 12/4/2018 at 6:05 AM, barryf said:

I will admit the buggy champ looks great. I assume it looks better than it runs.

The Buggy Champ arguably runs in a more pleasing way than many other RC cars, as long as it's on sand.

See here for details....

 

[barryf 5]

That's awesome.  Reminds me of my hornet.  Great on the beach.  Kinda sucks everywhere else. 

As of this minute I'm leaning toward some version of the avante or the defender or making an absurd offer on a 959 on ebay.

[Juggular 4964]

On 12/5/2018 at 10:35 AM, barryf said:

I kinda want this:

https://www.amazon.com/Fine-Electric-Drive-Model-tamiya/dp/B0077K0WM2/ref=pd_sbs_21_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0077K0WM2&pd_rd_r=f11ab671-f8a2-11e8-a598-6b142cabb10b&pd_rd_w=cnGLE&pd_rd_wg=0B7xn&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=7d5d9c3c-5e01-44ac-97fd-261afd40b865&pf_rd_r=0PE3T1XYR6X7CRQ7ERXM&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=0PE3T1XYR6X7CRQ7ERXM

Is it dumb?

Also as for lipo batteries how are they sized.  One issue with my wild willy sitting is I don't have a hump battery.  No clue the shapes and equivalency. As I write this I realize I could measure.  

What is the equivalent of a 7.2 in lipo?  Sorry obviously if this is covered everywhere else.

 

1

It's a hobby.  I do dumb things like buying a beat up car and spend more to fix it, than a new kit.  

But is it wise?  Maybe not.  You can get a 27mhz old radio with a receiver for $25, a NiMH battery for $15, a cheap ESC for $15.  And a trickle charger for $7.  In total, what you are looking at is worth about $60.  If you want to pay $115 for them, that's your money.  And many of new Tamiya kits do come with an ESC.   

I have a "4600mAh shorty" pack for M38.  It fits the space for it, but the wires stick out.  I've got even smaller 2200mAh packs that fit easier.  Don't worry about Lipos.  They come in all shapes and sizes.  Sellers like Hobbyking indicates the size very clearly.  

Equivalent to 7.2v NiCd in LiPo would be "2S."  It means "2-cells."  Each Lipo cells are 3.7v.  Two of them make 7.4v.  It's 0.2v higher, but that's not important, because if you fully charge the old 7.2v NiCd or NiMh packs, they go up to 8v.  So LiPo's 7.4v isn't a big deal.  But you will notice that the car is a bit more lively.  Sometimes you could run "3S," or 11.1v.  That's a bit higher, and there is a relatively 'small risk' of burning out the motor.  But 1060 ESC is 3S compatible if you want to try it someday. (I haven't)  For now, it's probably safe to stick with "2S" which is 7.4v.  

FYI, What I got is some no-name brand "shorty" pack.  It's shorter than regular 7.2 or 7.4v packs.  The thickness is exactly 15mm.  Width is 47mm.  Length is 95mm.  As you can see, it just fits M38.  But the original wires stood up from the case, which was a problem.  So I ordered a pair that's laid down sideways.  That solved the problem.  (if you are unfamiliar, some LiPos have wires that get plugged in)  

 

Here is the Amazon link for the LiPo I put in Willy's M38, if you want to check it out.  

https://www.amazon.com/Zeee-4600mAh-Hardcase-Connector-Vehicles/dp/B07F8T1NYQ/ref=asc_df_B07F8T1NYQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309830051937&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12587916391163323138&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007234&hvtargid=pla-571800107943&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=59137078302&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309830051937&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12587916391163323138&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007234&hvtargid=pla-571800107943

  I think this was the "low-profile connector..."  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4mm-Male-Low-Profile-Bullet-Banana-to-XT90-Female-Battery-Wire-JST-XH-Balance-/282326497187?hash=item41bbf877a3

[Jonathon Gillham 4607]

@Juggular is my favourite poster on Tamiyaclub and what he says is all right. My only gripe (not that I would have a gripe with Juggular, but we have different experiences) is that I recommend the name brand radio gear. I race with Sanwa but that is crazy expensive because rx are so expensive. To me Futaba is a close second to Sanwa and just as good but a lot cheaper as rx are at least USD20 - 30 cheaper each, and the Orangerx brand ones work. Spektrum is a mid level set which are fine but I have heard a lot of people complain about them, they glitch. Flysky is cheap and cheerful and works just fine and they don't glitch like Spektrum, but just aren't as good. I really don't like using my flysky set when compared to my Futaba 3PV, 3PRKA, 2HR(budget stick) or Sanwa MT4S.

Juggular makes many good points though, especially when you consider the cost. All my cars (boats) are runners so I think its worth the extra cost to run Futaba or Sanwa.

[Juggular 4964]

Why, Jonathon, I must remedy that!  You brought up something important... and that's my "well-ism."  It's got nothing to do with wellness or anything.  It means that I cannot recommend Alpha-Centauri (or just ISS) when I'm stuck in my gravity-well, ribbit.  

Rest assured, your influence is rubbing off on me.  First, the Boomerang (even though I have a vintage Hotshot and Re-re Bigwig), and the second might be Futaba 3PV.  

My philosophy has been "what works, works."  (My favorite tank is very basic StuG III -- nothing fancy like Tiger, but it worked)  However, I'm starting to think that it lacks "niceties."  Shocked by how much our god-daughter was getting for her allowance, I raised my allowance of $80 a month to $150 (and spent like $250).  After 15 years of $80 allowance, I would like some niceties, please. 

And I have been diligently watching youtube reviews, checking out nicer radios.  Sanwa MT-S would be nice, but since I'm not racing, I cannot justify it with bashers (to myself, and the lady who buys me dinner, with my money).  It'd be like giving a very expensive wine to a 15 year old, who never had a glass of wine in his life.  But maybe Futaba 3PV might not be too terrible an expense.  It would be no fun just landing at the top with Sanwa MT-S -- it's all about the hike up there.  

So, I might start the hike up with a Radiolink RC6GS.  I think Sanwa MT-S might have 11ms speed?  This relatively newcomer has 12ms.  Would it be a Tesla in the rough? (probably not)  But the receiver costs only $15, and it has a gyro!  You don't see that every day.  It seems like it allows proper channel mixing with graphs as well.  Futaba 3PV seems like it allows some mixing, but I think it's more like 4WS function?  Anyway, it is well known that the Force is weak with me.  All people have to do is to say; "you will get a Boomerang."  And voila!  It just shows up at my door.  Well, I'm not proud of the fact that the Force is weak with me. (but I come to TC to be influenced)  Since a few radios got on my radar, after some time, I'll get out of my well.  Only then, I could say, "hey, the sky is bigger here than from my well, ribbit." 

 

[moffman 5752]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:29 PM, GTodd said:

Given the current releases and what you have owned I recommend the Schumacher Cat XLS. I'm in the same boat, I want something different. I'm getting a XLS after I order my Astute!

Just remember! When buying a cat XLS before you start your build you must stock up on plenty of patient's and under breath swear words👍but you'll still loved the build and the finished buggy😉

 

[barryf 5]

Right now I'm leaning toward the Avante again.  For me it was the right around when I stopped buying cars.  I love the Black but it almost seems too new.

 

I still rather a 959 which makes me wonder, there are a couple on ebay that have been for sale forever for 2k.  I wonder if I actually offered a grand if one would bite.