Kyosho Big Boss

[berman 5315]

Enjoying this thread. 😁

My LHS has an old Big Brute sitting up on the shelf that needs some serious restoration, would love to get my mitts on it 🙂 

Cant complain, still have my USA-1 EP and GP that needs doing!

[Saito2 6686]

5 hours ago, mongoose1983 said:

I don't know what happened to me, or when did I started to sort of trying to keep the cars immaculate. I cringe at the thought of scuffing them, when back in 1992 I remember bashing the midnight pumpkin as if it was indestructible. Jumps, stones, the thing would just go ahead like crazy. Sometimes I think I lost so much in life I'd like to keep these things forever like new, they were just a dream three decades ago. It's a crazy thought, maybe it's related to getting old. It took me two years to raise the money for my first truck. And by the way just yesterday the guy from the hobby store who sold it to me passed away.

I know what you mean. I have to work hard for the things I have so I want to take care of them. As I've gotten older I've grown to not only love older things almost exclusively (I was always into older things, even as a kid) but also developed a sense of responsibility to preserve older things. That's a double edged sword when considering vintage RC. They were meant to be run and enjoyed yet its hard to run a mint one as they are finite in number at this point. That's always been the beauty of re-releases for me. Old design but no guilt. Some days, I've just got to get things in perspective though. If I passed on next week, would preserving 8 Big Boss tires mean more than preserving 4? Probably not.

[Ferruz 11702]

@mongoose1983 Oh I hear you, bud. I try to apply the "life is short" philosophy to RC cars as much as I can because I believe that, overall, it's the healthiest and most fun way to approach the hobby but, that being said, I totally understand your feelings about wanting to keep them pristine.

When it comes to my Big Boss it's easy: it was bought to me (and to my amazement) second hand by my parents when I was a kid, after I reckon a good two-three years spent drooling in front of the hobby shop window, and from the get go it begged to be driven hard: rough and tough in the looks, basic in the details (whoever built it was in a rush or probably didn't have the best modelling skills, shell wrap left on under the stickers and things like that). I drove it as much as possible, and it still looked great to me every time 'cause that's how it came to begin with. It was only 23 years after that I got it out of storage, stripped it down and rebuilt it with much more TLC than its first time, but his "imprinting" on me didn't change: I still see it as a runner, thriving in mud and gravel and licensed to go back on the shelf just like that, scuffed and dirty as it's supposed to be.

If we talk about other models of mine it's not nearly as simple, though: my Manta Ray for example, I spent so much time perfecting its looks that every time I run it I'm all tense and scared as if I were the driver in the cockpit. Stopping in the middle of runs to perform ritual checks just cause I hit a pebble, making sure everything is "OK" and entering total OCD mode when it's a buggy that is supposed to get scuffed and dirty the instant it's set out to do its job.

After a crash, oddly that's when things start to make sense: I hit a tree with the Manta Ray, paint chipping off from the lexan, feels tragic for a minute than reality starts to cave in and I tell myself things like: "well, first off it's an object not a person, it's just a chip that I can repaint any time, lexan isn't cracked so I should feel relieved, it can always go worse, I was having tons of fun anyway which is what counts"... So things suddenly get back into perspective, all of a sudden I don't cringe, I'm relaxed and end up enjoying the rest of the run with the chipped paint much more than I was before the crash. I know that it'll take me a few hours to repair the car but it's all part of the game, so at least in my case it all makes much more sense after a few scuffs (physical ones to the car, psychological ones to the self).

I totally get the feeling of wanting to keep a car pristine. In this life where so many things are unknown and out of our control, it feels great to just turn around and look at all your cars shining in their bubble of peaceful perfection that is your shelf, or wherever you have them displayed. When life treats you roughly, it's great to find solace in my little RC world that I control. I have a couple shelf queens plus the keep-pristine-while-running-them ones and that's pretty much what I think when I look at them. They end up being almost as much therapeutic as the seasoned runners, even if they rarely ever spin a wheel.

I think there's nothing wrong with wanting to preserve your cars as much as possible but maybe one thing: it may risk limiting the fun therefore, when in doubt, don't forget the unique feeling of seeing your car in action 

So, in conclusion, I find that a good solution to this conflict is to keep some cars pristine, have others as street warriors/runners and also keep some as pristine looking as possible while still running the swell out of them. One gets damaged? You still have the others, and you had fun anyway. That's they way I look at it. Some enjoy shelf queens only, others runners only, so whatever your take on the hobby is, I say just look inside yourself and do whatever feels more fun/ fulfilling: it will be the right thing.

 

One thing is for sure: all my RCs, gleaming or grimy, deserve their sweet spot on the shelf (my wife is very understanding and doesn't complain if I store them dirty, as least she hasn't so far ).

 

[Ferruz 11702]

4 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I was always into older things, even as a kid

Likewise 

[mongoose1983 3335]

15 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I was always into older things, even as a kid

I could have said the exact same thing to describe myself. It's crazy!

When lecturing on history I often make the students frown when I tell them the one thing I hate in life is TIME. It takes everything away from you, your family, your friends, your youth, your capabilities, your possessions, your parents, EVERYTHING!

And the things you have one day the next day they're not there anymore.

[Saito2 6686]

8 hours ago, mongoose1983 said:

When lecturing on history I often make the students frown when I tell them the one thing I hate in life is TIME. It takes everything away from you, your family, your friends, your youth, your capabilities, your possessions, your parents, EVERYTHING!

And the things you have one day the next day they're not there anymore.

Absolutely true. Time has, in a way, been my constant enemy through life. The reasons you listed strike deep. I've spend the majority of my adult life trying to reverse the ravages of time on mechanisms both as a career and a hobby...all the while as time takes it toll on me personally (as well as everybody else, of course). In the end, time always wins.

[Saito2 6686]

 

Here's a pic of a little oddity one of my Bosses had installed, a full steel, Hobbico/Maxtrax gear set with spool. It was intended for pulling applications which I find a bit odd because most serious pullers were solid axle by this point in RC history but its cool nevertheless.

[Ferruz 11702]

On 7/6/2020 at 9:02 AM, Saito2 said:

 

Here's a pic of a little oddity one of my Bosses had installed, a full steel, Hobbico/Maxtrax gear set with spool. It was intended for pulling applications which I find a bit odd because most serious pullers were solid axle by this point in RC history but its cool nevertheless.

Did it come with its own dogbones, or was it intended to work with the stock plastic ones? Just curious...

[Saito2 6686]

7 hours ago, Ferruz said:

Did it come with its own dogbones, or was it intended to work with the stock plastic ones?

They actually work with the stock dogbones, surprising as I've seen the stock plastic ones twisted under pulling loads. On the other hand, they never broke, stripped and are still usable.

[Ferruz 11702]

It really was time for me to do some maintenance on my Big Boss, and take most of it apart to check for cracks or whatever issues.

Having read this thread recently, I thought I'd do my homework and put into practice what I've learned from @Saito2 and @nowinaminute. It was definitely time to service the gearbox anyway, haven't opened it in over two years and the renown binding sounds were starting to get louder!

The general inspection went ok, not too much damage to declare: the dogbones showed a little wear, but fair enough if I count how often and how hard I run the truck. What hurts a bit is that I've noticed that one of the tires, if pinched and folded, starts to show some minuscule cracks on the side. And again, no wonder! This 32 y old thing is on the road all the time, I can't expect them to last forever. But I thought about it and I'm not sure I'd want to run my Big Boss with other tires/rims. They are just so part of its identity that it would feel counterintuitive. So I better be prepared to dish out the coin whenever a set becomes available... I've actually found a set of two online for only 25 USD, but it's from some dubious hobby site from I think California, feels fishy and the shipping to Canada where I now live would be over 60 USD! So... nope! Will wait, and keep running my Boss as it is in the meantime (delicate tire got swapped to the front).

So back to the gearbox now, as I found exactly what you guys found 

Getting started, digging my way through the dust...

Look at this spur gear!! It's got juuust a tiny bit of moulding left on the top right... wow  can't believe I haven't noticed before! 

All of the extra leftover moulding got carefully filed.

Then I wanted to do exactly what Saito2 did on the counter gear shaft. Same issue, same way to fix it. Thanks for the idea, bud! 

Some metal shaving picked up from the floor at work did the job first try.

 

Time to put the gearbox back together.

Don't worry it's not dirt, I used some moly grease which is black. I find it works well on the Big Boss.

After closing the gearbox, I topped the whole thing up with a black Sport Tuned motor for a bit more of a kick (though the original Le Mans stock motor will be back soon, to limit the abuse).

That's about it for now, a little TLC for my Boss but truth is, it deserves more care and maintenance and a little less use! And, I should hose it down.

All of the above was done a couple days ago, so I had time to try it out. Very pleased with how it drives, there's quite a difference compared to before. Talking about "smoothness" seems way too much in this case but, even if the everlasting binding is still there, the gearbox functions much better now, must have been your tricks that I've applied 👍

I can never get tired of running this guy, I'm going to start dreaming about mountains of spare tires soon 

 

[Saito2 6686]

Got my Boss out today. Nice and sunny.

The truck does enjoy a little air time .  At some time I want to do a side-by-side running comparison with the Blackfoot. One thing that stands out in my mind is that the Big Boss (and all Kyosho car crushers) is very truck-like. The Blackfoot is almost lithe in comparison. The Frog genes are evident. However, I never got the Clod Buster-like truck-feel with the 'Foot. The Big Boss is very much a truck. I don't want to call it ponderous but its feels and drives very much like a truck. There's a mass or solidness to it. Yet it still maneuvers about quite well and doesn't topple all that easily. Really great truck.

[RichieRich 685]

I have a completely disassembled Big Brute sitting in a storage container. I used to run that thing everyday, rain, shine, whatever. Eventually, it started wearing out..same issues that everyone has discussed. Worn out dogbones, cracked bulkheads, wobbly steering rack, general lose suspension parts. I have not made any effort to get it back to running condition. Have you guys had a hard time finding parts? Ideally, a replacement diff with metal dogbones would be nice. I believe one was made but I fear they are probably rare and expensive. 

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

I've been re assemblying a never run Big Boss today. Got it almost for free 10-15 years ago from a friend who runs a hobby shop. He had it from a customer who never managed to make it run. So, no scratches or battle damage, but when I disassembled it, it became pretty clear why it would never run. No lubrication in the gearbox whatsoever. A couple of plastic bushings had melted, the large second gear had left chafing marks on the inside of the gearbox and the brushes and motor winds are blue. Literally. I can't think of any gearbox where omitting lubrication is worse.

Everything cleaned and reassembled now, but ordered a new gearbox housing today. Chrome body parts have been stripped and will be repainted with Alclad2. As so typical for Kyosho chrome, it was badly "faded". The chrome on the dampers is too, but spending 25 Euro on NOS dampers with probably mediocre chrome, doesn't tempt me, so I'll paint them a suitable opaque colour instead.

Sourced two original uncut and unpainted original Big Boss bodies from Spain 1-2 years ago and got stickers from MCI, so I hope it will look decent when finished. The V8 was mssing when I got the model and as they are so hard to find, I will probably fit a Super Clod supercharger and scoop instead. 

[Saito2 6686]

2 hours ago, RichieRich said:

I have not made any effort to get it back to running condition. Have you guys had a hard time finding parts? Ideally, a replacement diff with metal dogbones would be nice. I believe one was made but I fear they are probably rare and expensive. 

Want to sell it?  Thorp did make a diff and standard metal dogbone set-up for the Kyosho trucks (and on other gear for the gearbox, IIRC), but yeah, they're pricey nowadays. Mine could use some new wheel adapters of which their are aluminum ones on Ebay. The Big Boss was newer than the Big Brute and had the improved knuckles. The Brutes and early Double Dares suffered from knuckle issues. There are parts but they aren't overly cheap. I try to patch up and use what I have if its serviceable. While I have grown to love them, they aren't overly valuable and sinking a ton into them is tough.

1 hour ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

Chrome body parts have been stripped and will be repainted with Alclad2. As so typical for Kyosho chrome, it was badly "faded". The chrome on the dampers is too, but spending 25 Euro on NOS dampers with probably mediocre chrome, doesn't tempt me, so I'll paint them a suitable opaque colour instead.

Sourced two original uncut and unpainted original Big Boss bodies from Spain 1-2 years ago and got stickers from MCI, so I hope it will look decent when finished. The V8 was mssing when I got the model and as they are so hard to find, I will probably fit a Super Clod supercharger and scoop instead. 

Kyosho chrome isn't great is it? I plan to do the same for mine by painting it. The expensive chrome/grill parts/etc. are getting restored for my shelf queen while my runner, pictured, has a simple homemade affair and an old Tamiya rollbar. The Super Clod engine is a good idea for my runner. Thanks for the idea.

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

 

8 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

Kyosho chrome isn't great is it? I plan to do the same for mine by painting it. The expensive chrome/grill parts/etc. are getting restored for my shelf queen while my runner, pictured, has a simple homemade affair and an old Tamiya rollbar. The Super Clod engine is a good idea for my runner. Thanks for the idea.

Haha! Let's say I know companies that do chrome a little better than Kyosho. Don't think I've ever seen decent chrome on any Kyosho part. And when the chrome is pretty much gone on a Big Boss that's never been run and spent most of the time in a box, like mine, it says it all. The dampers are almost transparent. In fact, they are so close, that I will leave them transparent if the rest of the chrome can be stripped by glassbeed blasting. Found an auction today for the chrome body parts (without engine) with a 120 Euro BIN, which I reckon is reasonable?  If the chrome had been great, I would maybe have bought them, but knowing that NOS Kyosho parts will have anything but perfect chrome, put me off.

As for the Super Clod engine, it was just a spontaneous idea this afternoon, so I haven't checked if it's actually suitable.