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maraach

Help me identify this vintage model

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Hi guys

 

Going through my late father's stuff and found a few vintage tamiya's there.

 

Can anyone help me identify this? I think it's a grasshopper 2 Super G. Is that right?

 

20190126_213441.jpg

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49 minutes ago, maraach said:

Can anyone help me identify this? I think it's a grasshopper 2 Super G. Is that right?

 

That's correct. With the right front wheel (maybe left too?) inside out! 

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Are the front wheels inside out?

1 hour ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

That's correct. With the right front wheel (maybe left too?) inside out! 

 

Sorry how do you mean wheel inside out? Is it mounted face towards wheel hub at present?

Is there anywhere I can read info about this model? I know the original grasshopper but this one is unknown to me.

 

Are they rare? I was thinking of running it in a vintage enduro race coming up. Is that a bad idea?

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35 minutes ago, maraach said:

Are the front wheels inside out?

 

Sorry how do you mean wheel inside out? Is it mounted face towards wheel hub at present?

Is there anywhere I can read info about this model? I know the original grasshopper but this one is unknown to me.

 

Are they rare? I was thinking of running it in a vintage enduro race coming up. Is that a bad idea?

The side of the right front wheel that is supposed to face outwards (right) faces to the middle (left). I can't judge from the photo if that's the case with the left wheel though. The strengthening ribs should be on the inside and the smooth side of the wheel on the outside.

The Super G is not much different from the normal GH2. It came with slightly larger wheels and tires, oilshocks instead of friction shocks and with a 540 motor with 18t separate pinion instead of a 380 motor with pressfitted pinion. Unfortunately, Tamiya didn't care about a different paint scheme or other/additional stickers for the Super G.

It came with the standard GH2 manual and a long separate page of the Super G specific assembly. (See my scans below).

The Super G isn't particularly rare, but it came with both the item number 49501 (in 1990) and 92018 (1989). Also, it was offered with both fluorescent yellow and fluorescent green wheels, and I haven't got the impression that one wheel colour is significantly rarer than the other.

With regard to using it, the wheels are actually the big issue. They are obsolete, were never easy to source and just like the fluorescent orange wheels of its sibling, the Super Hornet, they are brittle and were brittle when new too. From what I can see of your model, its wheels are better than average condition of Super G wheels, so if it was my model, I wouldn't run it with the original wheels. Otherwise identical, but white wheels and godc chrome wheels are widely available, cheap and still in production. The original (front) tires aren't as hard to find as original wheels, but I would consider saving them too.  All other parts (except the mechanical speedcontrol) are available because of the Grasshopper II re-release, so if you don't mind replacing broken or worn original parts with re-release parts, running the model isn't a problem. If you want everything to stay strictly original, saving the Super G and building Super G replica based on a re-release Grasshopper II would be the better path to follow.

Open the pics below in a new window to see them in full size. Well, at least what the full size is after the original scans were automatically reduced when I uploaded them. Drop me a PM with an e-mail address I can send the orignal scans too if you want them in higher resolution. Sending them by PM isn't possible because of the file sizes. Anyone else who might want full resolution scans of the Super G aux manual is of course free to PM me too.

 

50644854_10155734953267407_3008925195609  50969912_10155734953217407_9042356912133

 

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Mokei summed it up very well. (I have a restored vintage Super G, runner Super G and a stock vintage GHII). 

To add onto his post, the rear wheel mounting tabs on the inside of the hub can get very brittle and sheer off. This particular design (mounting tabs) was also used on the Falcon, which was also prone to the breakage. 

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Thank you so much guys! I really appreciate all the effort you put into this response and it's great to finally understand what the car is. 

When I first picked it up I knew it was a GHII but I didn't really pay too much attention to it (I was out there to get the Falcon - the car my dad bought for me that was never finished and was still sitting in its box. 

I am a modem day racer so when my club said they were running a vintage day my first thought was that it was the perfect opportunity to give the Falcon het maiden voyage. However I thought it wise to check part availability first and soon realised it was not a good idea... seems falcon' s are quite weak and parts are hard to come by. Also seems the very good condition ones may be collectable.

 

So. The Super G became the next viable option (car must be pre 1990). They are strict though on entries though that it must be as it came - no hope ups. As I didn't know the history of this car I started searching GHII and was dissapointed as i could see instantly this was different (wheels, 540 motor and shocks). Assumed this one had been upgraded. I would occasionally stumble across a picture that looked like mine though which is how I finally saw a box with "super g" on it and worked it out.

Are they a decent runner? Would they for example be better than a re-re hornet or Novafox? Are they based off the same chassis as the original hopper or something completely different? Apologies I've found contradicting info on the topic through searching.

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It's probably on a par with a Hornet: similar chassis design, same suspension layout, same weight. But that also means the same drawbacks: it'll be fast in a straight line, but it will be easily upset by bumps in the track and not jump or corner very well. A Fox/Novafox, with the independent suspension in the rear and lower center of gravity, will eat it for lunch, assuming the drivers are equal.

That said, the Super G would be a lot of fun as a vintage racer, because of the lack of stability. Sort of like how a vintage sports car is more fun to drive fast than a modern one with all the electronic nannies. You can't go as fast, but you have more fun going as fast as you can.

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23 hours ago, maraach said:

Are they a decent runner? Would they for example be better than a re-re hornet or Novafox? Are they based off the same chassis as the original hopper or something completely different? Apologies I've found contradicting info on the topic through searching.

The Super G is a great runner...for your yard and driveway.

The high CoG tends to send them rolling over in turns with a hotter motor and you'll spend more time on your roof than on your wheels. With that being said, the Super G is light years better than its stock version and fun to drive.

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4 hours ago, NWarty said:

The Super G is a great runner...for your yard and driveway.

The high CoG tends to send them rolling over in turns with a hotter motor and you'll spend more time on your roof than on your wheels. With that being said, the Super G is light years better than its stock version and fun to drive.

We have to r7n Handout silver cans in the event. The lack of ability in the corners though is beginning to sound like an issue. From what I'm understanding it'll run better than a hornet but not as good as a fox.

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On 1/27/2019 at 11:09 PM, maraach said:

We have to r7n Handout silver cans in the event. The lack of ability in the corners though is beginning to sound like an issue. From what I'm understanding it'll run better than a hornet but not as good as a fox.

The GH2 Super G wouldn't be that bad a choice for an endurance style event. They are based on the Grasshopper II, meaning they came with the incremental chassis and suspension improvements over the original, toylike Grasshopper I, plus they have oil shocks all round to help it handle a little more sensibly and 2" wheels, giving you a wider choice of tyres. I believe it came fitted with a 540 silver can, so that should pose it no particular problems. Lighter shock oil than the box-issue grade would probably also help.

You don't say what surface your race will be on, or exactly what mods you are allowed to perform, but if you are allowed to fit spacers inside the shocks to lower the car as much as you can for the surface, that will help a lot. The Grasshopper/Hornet series in all their forms had very limited ground clearance because of the bulge under the diff in the middle of the solid rear axle. It doesn't matter how high or low you set the car up, as that bulge sets the ground clearance limit, so you might as well drop it as low as you can and try and steer clear of bumps wherever possible.

While a GH2 would not normally outperform a Fox due to the inherent limitations of the chassis, it does have some good things going for it. Firstly, it is very light. Secondly, in stock form it is very cheap (although Super Gs and Super Hornets are sought after by some). Thirdly, it is more or less indestructible. If you are entering an endurance event then all three of these points could potentially be huge advantages for you when compared to more advanced machinery. Especially given how much of a massive PITA it apparently is to fix a broken Fox.

I'd say go for it. Swap the wheels for more modern replacements, as @Mokei Kagaku suggests (you should have no problem doing this with regard to the rules, as the white wheels from the re-re Wild One and the gold versions from the re-re Fox are identical apart from the colour, so you wouldn't be gaining any performance advantage). Fitting proper ballraces if you are allowed is also obviously a good idea, especially if it is some kind of long-distance event. From the picture of the front wheel you posted it didn't look like the car had them fitted.

And yes, the front wheels are on backward. I think the design of that type of wheel means you should definitely turn them round, as I believe the way it is dished means that fitting it the wrong way round makes the front track narrower. Given that the GH2 was never the greatest handling car to begin with, it'd probably be good to not make it worse when you don't have to.

The rears don't have that problem as it'd be very difficult to fit them backwards. There are four plastic dimples moulded into the back of the wheel which fit into four holes in the drive hubs and impart drive to the wheel. If you fitted it backwards (a) it wouldn't fit and (b) your car wouldn't go.

Good luck!

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On 1/26/2019 at 7:35 PM, maraach said:

 

When I first picked it up I knew it was a GHII but I didn't really pay too much attention to it (I was out there to get the Falcon - the car my dad bought for me that was never finished and was still sitting in its box. 

Hi, perhaps a bit off topic but if you were looking to maybe shift your falcon and box (or even just the box!) I'd be happy to have that conversation! Cheers and good luck with the racing.

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Thanks so much for the detailed reply Yalson. Apologies I put a video of the track in another thread. It's a large outdoor hard packed dirt track that gets dusty.

 

As far as mods I'm still working through that. They are very strict on some cars (Stock plus bearings only) but with the tamiya buggies they do allow after market wheels so ill be running my current prolines on a supershot. I do need to enter 2 cars though so the super g is planned as my second. I do want to change the wheels though as i believe these would be quite hard to replace.

 

Good thinking on lowering the car that should make it a lot more stable. I'm assuming I can run normal modern 3mm spacers? Tamiya doesn't use an odd sized shock shaft do they?

 

Ballbearings ordered. Just waiting for them to arrive. Final thing I need is a lipo that fits and I'm good to go.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Hobgoblin said:

Hi, perhaps a bit off topic but if you were looking to maybe shift your falcon and box (or even just the box!) I'd be happy to have that conversation! Cheers and good luck with the racing.

Sorry mate the Falcon is too sentimental for me to ever part with it. Good luck though, I know how hard these are to come by and I feel for you.

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On 2/5/2019 at 7:38 AM, maraach said:

As far as mods I'm still working through that. They are very strict on some cars (Stock plus bearings only) but with the tamiya buggies they do allow after market wheels so ill be running my current prolines on a supershot. I do need to enter 2 cars though so the super g is planned as my second. I do want to change the wheels though as i believe these would be quite hard to replace.

Good thinking on lowering the car that should make it a lot more stable. I'm assuming I can run normal modern 3mm spacers? Tamiya doesn't use an odd sized shock shaft do they?

The flouro wheels are indeed quite rare now, as are the Tamiya front rib-spike tyres, I believe. I don't know what wheel diameter you are running on the Supershot, but it might be a good idea to coordinate with that, so you have a wider choice of tyres for both cars.

If you have a free choice on wheels and tyres then I recently bought a set of Tamiya 2.2" star dish wheels for my own GH2 rebuild. 2.2" wheels hadn't been invented for 1:10 RC the last time I drove a Grasshopper, so I can't promise you they'd be an improvement over the 2" set you have on the Super G at the moment, but having a lower profile tyre generally helps make a car stiffer and more responsive. It saps a bit of suppleness in the suspension (which is why driving in a 1:1 car with very low profile tyres makes every suburban road pothole feel like a Mogadishu shell crater) but this should not be too much of an issue given you've got oil shocks all round.

I couldn't tell you the shock shaft diameter as I haven't got to the stage of replacing the shocks on mine yet. But you can use pretty much anything to shorten the travel and lower the stance. We used to use carefully-cut sections of narrow plastic pipe from some obscure source, both on the rear 'Hornet' shocks on my old Grasshopper I and on my Mids and Lazer.

Also, since I don't think I have posted a picture of it yet on TC, here is my own GH2, complete with body and stickers from 1991 or so. Eventually it will have a bug shell to make it into a 'poor man's Sand Scorcher', but I only just got the paint so that hasn't happened yet.

GH2.thumb.jpg.e9bc347b76ae3a6ac82ae6f3c1600bae.jpg

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Very nice runner you have there. I'm still thinking through wheel choice for the grasshopper. All my modern stuff is 2.2" on 12mm hex which im pretty sure wont work on thiscar.

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On 2/7/2019 at 9:20 PM, maraach said:

Very nice runner you have there. I'm still thinking through wheel choice for the grasshopper. All my modern stuff is 2.2" on 12mm hex which im pretty sure wont work on thiscar.

Not sure what size the hexes are on these wheels, which are Tamiya Star Dish 2.2" types from the Super Astute or some other re-re. They are standard hex fittings, though. I have a load of Kyosho hex-pattern wheels from back in the day and they fit on these hexes. The adaptors are a genuine Tamiya Hop Up item and fit over the GH2's standard drive pins, replacing the plastic four-hole adaptors.

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Front wheels are Tamiya Super Astute 53085 fronts, rears are Tamiya 53086. Front tyres are Tamiya wide-grooved soft 54284, rears are Pro-Line 2.2" Dirt Hawgs.

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