Building a new 4WD runner

[maraach 5]

So after discussions in another thread it's quite clear that my grasshopper ii isn't going to be quite as competitive in an upcoming endurance race as I was hoping (I will still be running it for a portion of the race though).

 

It's a vintage race (prior to 1990) so I'm looking at buggies from that era and am wanting to build up a 4wd for the event. My instant thought was the hotshot 2 - but they aren't easy to come by. This won't be a shelf queen and will actually be run at events through the year - it will also need to perform ok on hand out silver can motors.

I prefer the look of the more vintage buggies over the futuristic looking ones (i.e. thundershot). 

 

I've kind of narrowed it down to the hotshot or supershot. I know the boomerang is a better runner, is lighter, easier to work on and is a more logical choice I just never liked the look of them.

 

Any recommendations? Would Fitting a boomerang front shock to a hotshot make it a better runner?

[Saito2 6686]

Yes, adapting the Boomerang style front shock mount to the Hot Shot will improve its performance. That being said, for your purposes, buy the Super (Hot) Shot. I love the Hot Shot and all its quirks. Many of those quirks were Tamiya being bold and ambitious with a new design. They were also experimental. The SHS corrects many of those experimental ideas that didn't work so well in the real world. If you're racing and want a solid, old-school performer with plenty of spares, the SHS fits the bill.

[Snappy1 966]

Between a Hotshot or a Super Hotshot def the SHS,

But you will need to do some serious mods to get it competitive against the newer cars,

my recomendation would be

MIP ball diffs

17 Tooth steel pinion

The steering mod  https://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/59077-super-shot-hot-shot-upgraded-steering/

Better springs and the best tyres allowed

DF-01/DF-02 uni joints all round

Discard the front and rear arm hinge screw and fit circliped hinge pins

Full ball bearings

[maraach 5]

Thanks for the feedback guys, appreciate it. I must admit I'm not well informed on the hotshot line and it's great to to get clear advice (there are *many* arguments out there about which suspension was better (HS or SHS). Basically if you listen to the internet both suck. The only thing they all seem to agree on is the HS2 was the best of the bunch. I was a actually toying with the idea of getting the SHS rear suspension, bearings and the boomerang front to make a HS as close to a HS2 as possible. If I understand correctly getting the boomerang rear arms and a HS2 tower could complete a conversion but the towers are not easy to come by.

 

I'm not looking to run against the New buggies :). I've got some well equipped current Gen buggies which these will obviously not come close to. I just want to be able to keep up in the vintage races. I feel the boomerang was the best choice in this regard but as I said.. the look was just something I never warmed to.

[Snappy1 966]

The other alternative would be a Bigwig, but I am guessing aesthetically it isn't your cup of tea, although they are probably a better racer than the SHS and currently available fairly cheap compared to the SHS

[maraach 5]

I prefer not the bigwig but that does make sense.. Is that better than a boomerang or same same?

[Snappy1 966]

OK, Bigwig comes with

 rack and pinion steering

Dual front shocks of a better position to the SHS

Full bearings

I think it has a lower centre of gravity to the earlier shot cars

It is newer than the Boomer,

 

 

[Jonathon Gillham 4605]

The Boomer is the overall best of these though right? I know I always say the Boomerang is the pinnacle of RC, but it really is right?

Really though, surely you can start with a Boomerang and out a different (worse) body on it?

Also, Bigwig may be better but its really ugly. Boomer with Bigwig front suspension?

[maraach 5]

Would a hotshot body fit the boomerang?

[Snappy1 966]

52 minutes ago, maraach said:

Would a hotshot body fit the boomerang?

No they don't.

Personally I would build a Boomerwig with a Winger body, but again I love all six of the hotshot chassis cars.

A Boomerwig is a Boomerang, with Bigwig front arms, shocks and shock mounts, it retains the Boomerang steering and dual rear suspension

 

This is a Winger shell on a Boomerang with Avante lightweight rims and tyres, again still maybe not what presses your buttons

 

[Saito2 6686]

2 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

The Boomer is the overall best of these though right? I know I always say the Boomerang is the pinnacle of RC, but it really is right?

Actually, the Boomerang was the budget version of the bunch and thus made it into a lot of peoples hands because it was affordable. The original Super Shot and Big Wig were quite expensive. As a side benefit, the simplified Boomer was also one of the best performing of the bunch. The often forgotten Hot Shot 2 was no slouch either.

Without going down a rabbit hole, the Boomerang's pros are lighter weight, ease of radio gear access and good steering performance. The cons are no bearings in the kit, some chassis flex (combined with, IMHO, a battery door that's somewhat lacking) and a steering system that must be kept clean . The Super Hot Shot pros are bearings supplied, reasonably stiff boxed frame, 4 shocks standard and protected radio gear with bind-free steering. the cons are heavier weight, more difficult radio gear access (although the addition of the HS2 access hatch helps a little) and the steering that suffers from bumpsteer. 

[maraach 5]

The boomerwig did peak my interest. However by the time I ran through prices and availability (and got told it wouldn't be ok for the race) I ended up ordering the SHS.

 

I still know the boomerang would have been a better driver so it was a irrational choice. I also thought it through however that none of the mentioned cars are high performance cars and it was more about a bit of fun so I may as well get what I feel nostalgic too.

 

Everyone who is running in the second race (non tamiya specific) is running the rc10, because, well it is the best car from that time. If I was going for performance I'd probably be going for that.

Here is a video of them running at our modified track from a couple years ago

 

 

 

[maraach 5]

Oh and I also got carried away and bought a Novafox as my backup car. Race in 90 minutes enduro.

 

Any advice of gearing for a tamiya silver can motor for the SHS?

[Snappy1 966]

I'll see you at this years vintage festival maraach 

I will be running a Boomerwig, Top Force Evo and a Losi JRX Pro

 

Unless you start to modify  the rear gearbox housing the largest pinion you can run is 17 tooth

[maraach 5]

you running the 90 minute or 5 hour race? Or both?

 

And that's a 17t mod 8 yeah?

 

[ThunderDragonCy 7876]

Yes mod 0.8. The steel DT03 hop up pinion fits giving you some longevity. I have one in my Thunder Dragon. 54628 is the part number. 

[Snappy1 966]

3 hours ago, maraach said:

you running the 90 minute or 5 hour race? Or both?

 

And that's a 17t mod 8 yeah?

 

There are two vintage races a year at Castle Hill, the vintage festival with multiple sprint races per class or the Enduro , I race at the sprint meeting due to my lack of track experience and driving skills , I would only get in the way at the enduro lol

ok I know the rules at Castle Hill for vintage, you will want to convert your SHS to 12 mm hex and run 2.2 inch rims with modern race tyres , nearly everyone else will be running modern tyres in the shot class

[maraach 5]

Ok that is really good info! I did not know that Thank you.

I have tons of modern rims and tyres. Any idea on how to concert (which part needed) and which type of rims work?

[maraach 5]

6 hours ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Yes mod 0.8. The steel DT03 hop up pinion fits giving you some longevity. I have one in my Thunder Dragon. 54628 is the part number. 

Ordered. Thank you.

[ThunderDragonCy 7876]

2 hours ago, maraach said:

Ok that is really good info! I did not know that Thank you.

I have tons of modern rims and tyres. Any idea on how to concert (which part needed) and which type of rims work?

Just remove the triangle wheel mounts and replace a 5 or 6mm thick 12mm hex. When you pull the mount off you will see the pin drive just like modern buggies. Any 2.2" wheels will fit. 

[Jonathon Gillham 4605]

42 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Just remove the triangle wheel mounts and replace a 5 or 6mm thick 12mm hex. When you pull the mount off you will see the pin drive just like modern buggies. Any 2.2" wheels will fit. 

I really should've known that but had never really thought about it. Good to know if my club ever runs a vintage class, which I have brought up at committee meetings...

[maraach 5]

Got some spare 5mm. 5mm front and back? I'm used to very specific offset wheels for different buggies but I Guess in this circumstance that won't really make much of a difference. 

 

Assuming on a 2wd I just run 2wd front wheels and 4wd fronts on the 4wd?

[ThunderDragonCy 7876]

You might need to play with it a bit, but I have no trouble mounting all sorts of different wheels to my Thunder Dragon with 5mm or 6mm thick hexes. If you have a choice of modern race wheels, just choose what gives the nicest balance. I have never had a Hot Shot series car before, but I know my Thunder Dragon has a really oversteer balance (rear really loose) so running narrower 2wd fronts on the buggy might be worth trying if you have the same problem. Reduce the front grip a little bit. Otherwise just trying some difference tyres and wheels and see. I have given up trying to get the handling to work on astroturf with the 2" vintage wheels on mine, as I only have options for Mini Spikes front and rear or CAT Blocks. I have a 2.2" set of wheels with Cut Stagger fronts and Dart rear and that is much more balanced front to rear grip. 

[maraach 5]

22 hours ago, Snappy1 said:

I'll see you at this years vintage festival maraach 

I will be running a Boomerwig, Top Force Evo and a Losi JRX Pro

 

Unless you start to modify  the rear gearbox housing the largest pinion you can run is 17 tooth

 

Actually, you might be able to help! What batteries will you be running? Im still struggling to find tamiya compatible lipo's that will fit the hotshot.

[StueyS 41]

If you can get them, the Core RC lipo stick packs fit in all of my Tamiya cars.