Random hand waving: TB05 could be new DB03?

[ThunderDragonCy]

Recently got into the ins and outs of fitting touring car arms on buggies and vice versa for the RR-03Ra project. Bit of dead time yesterday was looking through the new TB05 manual checking out the new generation 'span frame' tubs and I noticed the suspension arms interface are the same same as the TRF buggies. Got me thinking that with TRF/DB arms, shafts and uprights, some tall shock towers and buggy damper there would be a fairly well formed DB03 buggy right there. Rear arms Sweep back to give a 270ish wheelbase and front uprights have 10 deg caster blocks to keep steering nice. 

It's been far too long since there was a club level buggy in the range. This would be pretty cool, no? And seems but a parts bin plus shock towers away. What do you think? 

[TurnipJF]

I think that the drivetrain and basic layout out would make for a great DB-03, however I suspect that a different chassis tub with more of a kick up front end would be introduced. The rest of the parts might very well remain interchangeable, which would make it a great addition to the fleet of somebody who already owns a TB-05.

[Juls1]

Given I’m in the middle of DB01 and DB02, I’d have no problems with a DB03, but I’m not sure if Tamiya are in that market anymore. I hope I’m wrong! 

 

[speedy_w_beans]

Is there any active TRF development on 2WD/4WD buggies?  I haven't seen anything new in ages.  The DN/DB families were essentially lower-spec versions of TRF designs:

• TRF201 --> DN01
• TRF501x --> DB01
• TRF502x --> DB02
• TRF503 --> DB01RRR (at least in terms of new belts and diffs)

I think it would be very difficult for Tamiya to justify anything new in the DN/DB families given the lack of TRF designs (and supporting research) to feed them.  My feeling is Tamiya is so far out of touch with current track conditions that releasing a new DN/DB design just to release one means it will have an instant disadvantage racing against everything else.  They need an active TRF off-road program for starters.

At least in the case of the on-road TRF41x series you can see some of those geometries and designs trickling down to TA and TB chassis still.  There's still a clear research/design TRF/trickle down path to these mid-range models.

[Jonathon Gillham]

The DB03 is the car i most want to see from Tamiya. Especially if its like the TA07Pro with a few good bits included (shocks, they are really expensive separately) but no electronics and priced about 50% more than the TT02B. I would most likely set it up for 4wd stock and run it at my club, and switch my Lazer to mod.

My only concern would be if its based on TB05 would it be like the TT02B where it is lacking ride height and isn't a "proper" buggy? The motor options of the TB05 would be ideal though (TB05 has the same layput as TB Evo 7 right?)

As for r and d of the buggy, I don't think thats such a big issue anymore. All buggies are tending to be similar now and none give a major advantage over another. The HB 216 was pretty much ripped off from another buggy apparently, I don't know the full story but apparently it has a basically identical front end. So tamiya would just need to buy one of each (although at NZD800 each thats probably quite a bit!) and take the best from them.

At least we know that @ThunderDragonCy can make us a DB03 based on a TB05 so all is not lost

[ThunderDragonCy]

I am tempted to side with @Jonathon Gillham here. If tamiya aren't funding TRF buggies so be it, but the arms and uprights they still have in production are still pretty competitive and if they are still developing drive train and chassis s tech in the touring cars it seems a shame not to offer something a little more than the TT02B for tamiya fans wanting a better buggy.

Anything properly DB03 would probably need front kick up as mentioned above but everything else really does seem straight forward. Maybe a new slipper isn't the work of a minute but I think it might be the only bespoke part needed. As you say the the flipped motor options give it some good tuning possibilities. 

@speedy_w_beans I am not convinced they are that far out of date. There are plenty of guys doing well with DB and TRF buggies even now and these span frame chassis can take square pack batteries and have motor position options to tune weight distribution. I think they would be pretty good. Aeration shocks are still the best. 

 

[speedy_w_beans]

In my last post I took somewhat of an analytical view of Tamiya's off-road program and a potential DB03.  If I reflect on it more emotionally, then yeah, I'd love to see a DB03!

My own personal path through 4WD buggies was:

• DF03 Dark Impact
• DB01 Durga
• DB01R (x2)
• OFNA NEXX8 1/8 e-buggy
• TRF801XT 1/8 truggy w/ e-conversion

The thing that struck me about the DF03 was how nimble it seemed compared to the DB01; I'm only guessing the DF03's shorter wheelbase and central battery/motor layout helped provide that sensation.  However, the DB01 was more durable with better plastics and a forgiving belt drivetrain.

With that said, if someone took a TB03 (or TB05) chassis, put TRF502X diffs in it (or TB04 gear diffs with TA06 metal gears), used DB01 arms and uprights, and 3D-printed or CNC-milled appropriate damper stays I'd be very interested in that.  What I'd hope for is some of that nimble feeling the DF03 provided but without its shortcomings (layshaft gear, rear diff, chipped diff joints, self-tapping screws).

Maybe another candidate is a TA06 chassis with its rear gearbox / gear diff and belt-fed front gear diff.  With shorty LiPos common these days, you could easily set up the front gearbox, steering, servo, LiPo, motor, and rear gearbox in a narrow line.  There are a variety of Bando S3M belts available if you wanted to relocate the front pulleys and alter the wheelbase, too.  That would be an interesting project to try.

Maybe one of each?

[ThunderDragonCy]

@speedy_w_beans TB05 has gear, ball and one way transmission options. Not looked at a TA06 but there's a bunch of cool drive train tech in the Tamiya range. Wish they would apply it to buggies. Your description of the DF03 sounds great. My DB01 was so easy to drive but I did end up selling it. Would love something a little more lively and charismatic. 

 

[Jonathon Gillham]

25 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

@speedy_w_beans TB05 has gear, ball and one way transmission options. Not looked at a TA06 but there's a bunch of cool drive train tech in the Tamiya range. Wish they would apply it to buggies. Your description of the DF03 sounds great. My DB01 was so easy to drive but I did end up selling it. Would love something a little more lively and charismatic. 

 

The drive train options are amazing from tamiya compared to others, and the TA cars allow them to innovate in a low risk way.

While its backwards to what they usually do, starting with a new DB chassis would be a low risk way back to buggies for Tamiya. People will buy them because they will (we don't need actual reasons) which allows them to test the water, then release a TRF version with carbon/alumnium chassis etc, so reverse the usual order of things. 

[ThunderDragonCy]

35 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

The drive train options are amazing from tamiya compared to others, and the TA cars allow them to innovate in a low risk way.

While its backwards to what they usually do, starting with a new DB chassis would be a low risk way back to buggies for Tamiya. People will buy them because they will (we don't need actual reasons) which allows them to test the water, then release a TRF version with carbon/alumnium chassis etc, so reverse the usual order of things. 

This is a really interesting point about turning the development stream around, just like thry release Pro, R and MS steps for the TA07. 

From what I can glean from TRF Off Road the only reason people are switching to other brands arms and uprights is parts availability local to them and the obvious hex conversion for the front of the 2wd buggies. It's not really a performance thing. The only real innovation in buggies is drive train. 2wd with the gearcase layouts and motor position options in 4wd. 

[Honza]

I think that TB05/Evo7 style, with various layouts (standard/short/saddle), which uses mix of already existing parts would be great addition to Tamiya family. However, i think that TB05 differential cases are not greatest choice for such task. Something more similar to TRF502, but wide enough to fit gear diff, would be great.