Jump to content
Juls1

The Buggy Damper Thread.

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Cynan said:

42259 - red (orange to some?) o rings - standard 'cheap' but effective o-ring

53574 - TRF damper rebuild kit with clear o rings
42214 - blue x-rings for silicone oil
42215 - blue x-rings for mineral oil - Virtually all CVAs are silicone, unless they specifically mention mineral oil. Don't use these unless specifically told to do so.
42374 - blue VG o rings for diffs - These are 5mm inside diameter, too big for dampers
42359 - navy blue VG o rings

...so where would you use them and why?

Great question!  Honestly I think beyond the orange/red, they are different o-rings from different generations of racing.  The blue O/X or white O are all higher performance, lower friction.  They might even be tied to the coating on the shock shaft for best performance.  I'd like to hear from someone who has raced Tamiya for a long time and may have seen all these come out.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cynan said:

Great thread. Thank you @Juls1 for all your hard work.

I was wondering if anyone could explain the differences and when you'd use each type of o/x ring that is available? I've had a look round and cannot see this information anywhere and this seems like a perfect place to put it.

From what I can gather..

54384 - black o rings
42259 - red (orange to some?) o rings
53574 - TRF damper rebuild kit with clear o rings
42214 - blue x-rings for silicone oil
42215 - blue x-rings for mineral oil
42374 - blue VG o rings for diffs
42359 - navy blue VG o rings

I know the black ones are hard and great for perhaps shelf queens, but little else and I've always used red/orange o rings over these. I've never had any of the others and I don't find that the descriptions on Tamiya's site very helpful, so where would you use them and why?

Thanks all.

I don't use the black ones in shocks, only as cushioning for driveshafts / props.

Red are fine - much better than black, they are ok for a basher/street/garden.

53574 - TRF damper rebuild kit with clear o rings - these are much better than red or black, but I dont think they last as long as the navy blue VG ones.

42374 - Blue VG O rings for gear diffs are excellent compared to the standard/older items (always used to have to swap the kit items for Kyosho ones) - note these should only be used in oil filled gear diffs - not shocks. 42374 come as standard in the TA08 so might become a standard item I suppose. I use them in TA06 gear diffs that I use in my TRF211XM and M07, also use them in the DB01 diffs I have in the TA05 as well.

42359 - Navy blue VG O rings are the go to ones for TRF dampers for me, I use them in SSBBs, Big Bore Buggy dampers, and Buggy aeration dampers - they last well and I don't have leaky shocks.

I've never used the X-rings for mineral oil as I only use silicon shock oils, the other X-rings are ok, but I prefer the navy blue VG ones as I think they last longer and are more consistent on track

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys, guess I’m buying some VG o rings for my next build!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2022 at 12:59 AM, Juhunio said:

I'm struggling with a set of CVA dampers at the moment; no matter what I do they 'stick' when the chassis rests. Chassis is a TT02B

I started with the stock TT02B dampers, essentially the 54567 DT03 set. They built fine but if I left the chassis for an hour or so they would stick solid and need a very firm push to 'unlock'

So I rebuilt them adding some green slime to the o-rings.

They still stuck

So I rebuilt them again, replacing the one-piece pistons with rods and pistons left over from a DF03 build (essentially the 50519 / 50520 sets). I used white TRF pistons on the fronts, and replaced the black o-rings with red throughout

They still stuck

So I ordered some new cylinders from Tamico (thinking maybe I had a duff set) and rebuilt them again.

They still stick

So, having started with the DT03 set, I have now replaced:

  • rods
  • pistons
  • o-rings
  • cyclinders

They're basically the CVA equivalent of Trigger's Broom :lol:

But they still stick

I've built plenty of the super-minis on touring cars and they never stick, but generally tend to upgrade to aluminium dampers on buggy builds (DF03 dampers on the DF03 and Boomerang, hi-caps on the Super Astute)

I've got a re:re Bigwig with yellow CVAs and they never stick either, and that can get left for months before I pick it up and run it again

So, is this just a 'thing' with the CVA buggy dampers? Has anyone else experienced this, or managed so solve it? 

I did some more research and seems even some of the more expensive dampers do this including my tt02b/df03 aluminum dampers.

I think 2 things are happening here.  With the CVA's there is wobble on the piston side when its close to or at full extend and its possible the damper rod is not perfectly straight?  You can try removing the bottom o-ring and replacing it with a TRF damper shaft guide part number 84292 which might help.

The other thing that may be happening is that the oil coating the shaft dries up or rolls to the bottom of the shaft.  This is a really crude explanation and im not talking about dampers leaking badly.  im just saying that the damper rod is no longer slick after sitting for a bit and once the damper is cycled once its fine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

STICKING ISSUE RESOLVED!

I did not polish the Rods and the performance is amazing!

I removed the bottom red o-ring from the CVA's in my sand viper and replaced it with TRF damper shaft guides part number 84292.  it's a 4 pack so its good for a complete set of CVA's. I let it set all day and absolutely ZERO sticking. I even let it hang with all 4 dampers at full extend. there is a grooved side on the damper shaft guide...that part goes against the oring.....make sure you dont overlook this step......so just to be clear install a red o-ring followed by the shaft guide and finally twist the cap on. I did install the shim above the black plunger to remove the wiggle part number 9804198 but this only works for the rear dampers. the TRF piston (only can be installed in the front CVA and not the rear) doesn't need a shim and if you don't want the wiggle you should order the trf 3 hole pistons part number 53573. 2 hole is part number 53572 for reference. You don't have to use the TRF piston and you can choose to use the black plungers.  so front will be trf 3 hole plunger or black 2 hole plunger, and rear one hole plunger.. so to clear things up.  the black front plunger has play so a one hole acts like a trf 2 hole and a 2 hole acts like a trf 3 hole.  The rear is TOTALY different.  its piston is larger so the one hole rear is like a 3 trf piston. The reason behind this is that the TRF pistons are a tight fit and the black pistons are close but not as tight.

besides the above I filled all dampers with 40wt front and rear. used 3 hole trf piston up front with 1 hole black piston rear with everything mentioned above. stock spring in front and RED spring from dt02 spring set in rear. the sand viper kit comes with two long eyelets meant for the rear...I ordered another set and installed in the front also to get more length.  front cva is mounted using the inner lower mounting point and has the thinnest spacer on top. I put a black oring on the shaft as a bumpstop.  the rear I used the shortest shock shaft spacer X11 under the lower spring perch and also a black oring as a bumpstop.

Note: I did this on my DT02 and DT03.  DT02 has the 3 hole trf piston and the dt03 has the 2 hole black piston with wobble.  Crazy thing is that I cant tell the difference

buggy is perfectly level.

This is the copycat cva damper recipe to mimic the dt02 ms aluminum dampers and it works WELL. you will notice the instructions say trf 2 hole in the front however 3 hole works better.  choice is up to you i setup the tt02b/df03 aluminum dampers this way and then made it work for the CVA's.  I cannot tell the difference except I think the cva's are now actually smoother.

basically a medium spring up front and a soft spring in  the rear.   the trf201 is set up this way.  the zahhak has soft all the way around but just needs a medium spring up front and its good to go.

expect tamiya to magically run out of these parts when they find out they cant sell the aluminum dampers because the cva's can be built with amazing performance.

 

Note: everything above will work for the DT03.  That might be hard to wrap ones head around because of the springs provided in the kit.  think of it this way.  softer taller = Red  Shorter stiffer =stock spring

I highly suspect the TD2 Astute 2022 will need the sand viper front springs part number 9805484 and those are $2.00 from tamiya usa. probably need the trf damper shaft guides $3.80 and 3 hole trf pistons up front $8.00

I need to check the weight of that buggy but it calls for a REDICULOUS 3 hole black plungers front and rear.  I hate to say it but I will..... I feel Tamiya does this to get you to buy the aluminum dampers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know if stripping the paint from tamiya springs will result in chrome color like the front springs?

It would be great for a sleeper suspension build... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 54508 Rear Big Bore Damper springs have been out of stock everywhere I have looked since like June or July.  They aren't showing discontinued anywhere but anyone have any idea how long they typically disappear for?  I have Big Bores for my TD4 but no rear springs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, tamiya3speed said:

The 54508 Rear Big Bore Damper springs have been out of stock everywhere I have looked since like June or July.  They aren't showing discontinued anywhere but anyone have any idea how long they typically disappear for?  I have Big Bores for my TD4 but no rear springs.

I don’t think they are discontinued, but I’ve noticed tamiya changing some things like the bore bore shocks don’t come with a ally lower ball anymore and they don’t come with x rings either. 
 

I assume it’s an effort to reign in price inflation,

it may be they just need to do another run or they are finding a cheaper way to make the springs. I don’t know. But they are still releasing kits that list them as upgrade parts so I’m sure they’ll be back in stock eventually. 
 

I’ve noticed particularly Japanese sellers getting ahold of out of stock items and inflating the price on eBay etc significantly. Of course as soon as you pay that rip off price then they’ll come back into stock for sure.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going to attach two sets of instructions via screenshots.  The first will be the instructions for the tt02b/DF03 Dampers.

The second set of instruction screenshots will be for the dt02 MS shock build which the instructions are still accurate using the tt02b/DF03 Dampers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Specific build instructions for the tt02b/DF03 Dampers

For the tt02b they have you put a TON of rubber washers spacers in the shock to limit droop the damper is at full extend standing still.  I used only 2 rubber o rings in the rear and zero in the front. 

 

 

 

 

 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are the specific build instructions for the DT02 MS.

Note: The included springs just don't work for the DT02.  However the good news is the front springs on the sand viper are the same as the MS (Tamiya USA verified) and the rear springs are the Red springs from the DT02 spring set (Also Tamiya USA verified)

These instructions can also be used for the DT03

The TD2 uses the red hop up springs front and rear from the DT02 spring set.  If you want medium springs see part numbers for the sand viper build. I anticipate I will probably use sand viper medium springs 

See addendum for TD2 in its instruction manual.

There is an addendum for the td4 however I do not know what others are using for springs. The part numbers however point to the DF03 spring set.

6.jpg

7.jpg

8.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone confirm that the big bore piston will fit in a rear CVA?  both are 11mm.  I'm thinking if it does some blanks can be ordered to drill the correct hole size for a buggy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is part # 42332 in a Short CVA (rear buggy CVA).  Fits perfectly.   These are the blanks that have divots to start your holes.

IMG_2182_resize.thumb.jpg.51a9c2d9564ff129be93a785082fc634.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I didn't even know that piston blanks were a thing, how customisable can you get!!😎

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/12/2023 at 2:03 PM, SlideWRX said:

This is part # 42332 in a Short CVA (rear buggy CVA).  Fits perfectly.   These are the blanks that have divots to start your holes.

IMG_2182_resize.thumb.jpg.51a9c2d9564ff129be93a785082fc634.jpg

I Just received these in the mail and drilled holes during lunch.  Going to install this weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How well do these pistons fit in the CVA shock bodies? The kit pistons are a bit loose and let a lot of oil around the sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Test fitted at lunch.  Like a glove.  The package they come in says TRF .  they fit the same as the front white trf pistons. 

You will need shims under the c clip (you can reference the astute 2022 instruction manual for the rear CVA's) and that part # is 9804198 for the shims

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just realized something. On the CVA or aluminum dampers the lower spring retainers are undersized. I went through my extra parts and replaced the front spring retainer with a rear and it is really solid.  I did this on both my CVA's and my aluminum dampers.

It may not matter much to some but on my Sand viper I reversed the front arms. Sometimes the spring would shift causing a clearance issue.  never happens with the larger  lower spring retainer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/13/2023 at 6:56 PM, danimaldaisy said:

Just realized something. On the CVA or aluminum dampers the lower spring retainers are undersized. I went through my extra parts and replaced the front spring retainer with a rear and it is really solid.  I did this on both my CVA's and my aluminum dampers.

It may not matter much to some but on my Sand viper I reversed the front arms. Sometimes the spring would shift causing a clearance issue.  never happens with the larger  lower spring retainer.

In a similar vein - I found the spring cups from the buggy aeration damper (not big bore) to be a much better fit on the DF03/TT02B dampers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can DF-03 spring set be used with CVA shocks? #53927

Can I use aluminium retainers with CVA? #54776

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/8/2023 at 12:07 PM, skom25 said:

Can DF-03 spring set be used with CVA shocks? #53927

Can I use aluminium retainers with CVA? #54776

Yes and the second I’m 99% sure yes assuming it’s the right size for the springs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone have information for bleeder caps that will fit the df03/tt02b aluminum dampers?

It doesn't have to be Tamiya specific. even a composite bleeder cap will do.  

someone pointed out that if you land too hard you can puncture or damage the bladders.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, danimaldaisy said:

Does anyone have information for bleeder caps that will fit the df03/tt02b aluminum dampers?

It doesn't have to be Tamiya specific. even a composite bleeder cap will do.  

someone pointed out that if you land too hard you can puncture or damage the bladders.

Thanks!

I’m not aware of a composite cap that fits. If you don’t put bottom out spacers on the shaft then you may damage the bladder because the physical shaft is too long. That being said in order for that to happen you’d need to totally bottom out the shaft on the top cap. This can still happen if you remove the bladder and it’s not ideal. The top cap and the damper piston are not designed to hit each other. Building the shock in this way is just failing to use some common sense. The shock should bottom out on the spring retention first. For this reason just install enough spacers on the shaft before the bottom cap to stop this happening. If you are following the instructions it does actually show how many spacers for each car but additionally just use a little common sense, check where the shaft end point is, add enough spacers to prevent internal bottom out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, danimaldaisy said:

Does anyone have information for bleeder caps that will fit the df03/tt02b aluminum dampers?

It doesn't have to be Tamiya specific. even a composite bleeder cap will do.  

someone pointed out that if you land too hard you can puncture or damage the bladders.

Thanks!

On my TD2 with the DF03 dampers I put a spacer on the shaft (outside the body) to stop the piston hitting the bladder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone converted the original Buggy Aeration dampers to CVA using some oil seals? I had some on my TRF201 and TRF211 and liked them, but can't be bothered with constantly rebuilding them. There are some for a good price on PJ, and the TT02B/DF03 dampers are out of stock. Anyone got any experience of this? @Juls1?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...